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Ocasio-Cortez won't call Gaza war a genocide, another lying politician

Lawmaker Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez was recently followed and filmed by a group of protesters while out with her fiance. These protesters were demanding that she call Israel's intervention in Gaza a "genocide", to which she said she has, when she has not.

In January, Cortez avoided calling it a genocide by saying the empty, meaningless words: "I am appalled at the violence and the indiscriminate loss of life", and on the question of genocide:
"they’re still determining it. But in the interim ruling, the fact that they said there’s a responsibility to prevent it, the fact that this word is even in play, the fact that this word is even in our discourse, I think, demonstrates the mass inhumanity that Gazans are facing."

What about the fact that she can't, or won't, say it? The fact that she is only alluding to what other people think? The fact that she is still determining what would be wise to say. The fact, the fact...

This woman isn't an activist, she is a politician. She is thinking about her future, and to do that she must be a moderate, and she must have the support of democratic elites, and any Jews who donate money or help with future campaigns.

If she isn't pretending to care about a cause through misguided and insincere attempts at "speaking out" or "advocating", she is playing the politician and putting her career before anything else. Why would anyone care for her, or any other politician? All they do is think about what they say, who their audience is, and what will happen to them as they reach for power.
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It's not a genocide. Kudos to AOC for not mindlessly repeating buzzwords just to appeal to her supporters.
Thinkerbell · 41-45, F
@LeopoldBloom

Of course it isn't a genocide.

But I suspect AOC's political contributions from Jews are not insignificant; it wouldn't do for her to offend them.

Rashida Tlaib, on the other hand, only has to keep her Muslim constituents happy.
@Thinkerbell Most of AOC's contributions are small dollar amounts; she's not beholden to big donors. That's the irony of our system; the most extreme representatives, like her, MTG, Tlaib, Gaetz, etc. get small contributions from donors across the country. It's the more moderate ones who depend on corporations and lobbyists.
Thinkerbell · 41-45, F
@LeopoldBloom

That's not very ironic... why would corporations contribute to radicals?

Corporations would favor stability and predictability.

And why do you assume that AOC doesn't have a significant number of small contributions from Jews?
badlands · 22-25, F
@Thinkerbell [quote]Of course it isn't a genocide.[/quote]

What is a genocide, in your view?
Thinkerbell · 41-45, F
@badlands

A genocide is when you murder civilians of a certain ethnicity with the express intent of exterminating that ethnicity, as for example, the Nazis' murder of as many Jews as they could get their hands on during WW2.

Israel has no such intention in its war against Hamas, any more than the Allies had of exterminating the Germans or the Japanese in WW2 with their bombings and destruction of whole cities.
badlands · 22-25, F
@Thinkerbell You don't believe that Palestinians are an ethnic group?

The desire to exterminate all isn't necessary, and the method can be any method. Israel's "war against Hamas" is not destroying Hamas; it is destroying children and their families.

You may have your own definition, but it isn't the right definition. The UN says the destruction of a group can be "in whole or in [i]part[/i]."
@Thinkerbell [quote]Israel has no such intention in its war against Hamas[/quote]

Netanyahu has said that there are no civilian Palestinians, which would explain why Israel is killing so many civilians. So yeah, if by "Hamas" Israel just means all Palestinians, then this is a genocide.

[quote]any more than the Allies had of exterminating the Germans or the Japanese in WW2[/quote]

The ethnic cleansing of Germans in Eastern Europe was definitely a genocide. Because the history of WWII is generally written by the Allies, most people don't know about the German Genocide that took place after the war. Which is really bad because now we have people using WWII in their analogies to justify genocide during wars, like that's something that just happens. When really, the Allies were just as bad as the Axis when it came to war crimes.
@Thinkerbell It's not that corporations don't want to contribute to AOC or MTG, it's that they don't need corporate contributions because they get so many individual contributions from people across the country.

American Jews tend to be liberal, so I would imagine that AOC gets a lot of contributions from them. I wouldn't characterize AOC as anti-Israel either just because she's not giving them full-throated support like John Fetterman is.
@badlands Shall we go with the definition from Rafael Lemkin, the man who invented the term? These were adopted by the 1948 Genocide Convention.

...any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

By this definition, Hamas' intentions toward Israeli Jews, and Jews in general, are genocidal.
@BohemianBoo Was the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki a genocide? What about the bombing of Dresden? Going back to the Civl War, was Sherman's March to the Sea a genocide?
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badlands · 22-25, F
@LeopoldBloom Why do you think they aren't genocides? People were alive and then they were deliberately killed by others. It's all sick.

We can't even be equal in our right to life?
Thinkerbell · 41-45, F
@BohemianBoo

[quote]"Netanyahu has said that there are no civilian Palestinians..."[/quote]

Oh, really? I doubt it.
But if so, he seems to have changed his mind.

"Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says Israel will not leave civilians trapped in Rafah when its forces begin a long-feared assault on the southern Gaza city where more than a million Palestinians have taken shelter.

“Our goal in eliminating the remaining terrorist battalions in Rafah goes hand in hand with enabling the civilian population to leave Rafah. It’s not something we will do while keeping the population locked in place. In fact, we’ll do the very opposite, we will enable them to leave,” Netanyahu said during a press statement in Jerusalem with German Chancellor Olaf Scholz."

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/3/17/netanyahu-repeats-rafah-assault-threat-says-civilians-wont-be-locked-in

[quote]"The ethnic cleansing of Germans in Eastern Europe was definitely a genocide."[/quote]

Lost wars generally mean lost territory.
It's interesting that the lost eastern areas of the Third Reich (East and West Prussia, Silesia and Pomerania) were among the few areas of Germany that gave the Nazis a majority of the vote in March, 1933. Admittedly, the vote was rigged by massive intimidation and arrests of members of opposition parties, but those areas of the Reich also had a generally larger Nazi vote in the last free elections of 1932 than other areas of Germany.


It's too bad Obama wasn't yet born to remind them that elections have consequences.

And did you [i]really[/i] expect Poland and Russia to be kind to Germans in those territories after what Germans had done in their countries during WW2?
Thinkerbell · 41-45, F
@LeopoldBloom

[quote]"...acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole [u]or in part[/u], a national, ethnic, racial or religious group..."[/quote]

"Or in part..."
ONE such person of such a group is a part, but is that genocide? 10? 100? 1000?

Someone has to decide, and that's where the politics starts.
@Thinkerbell [quote]Oh, really? I doubt it.[/quote]

https://thewire.in/world/northern-gaza-israel-palestine-conflict

[quote]"Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says Israel will not leave civilians trapped in Rafah when its forces begin a long-feared assault on the southern Gaza city where more than a million Palestinians have taken shelter.
[/quote]

I don't know about leaving people trapped in Rafah, but he certainly doesn't mind killing people there. After Israel told the Palestinians to go there, claiming it was a safe zone for civilians, they immediately started bombing.

[quote]Lost wars generally mean lost territory.[/quote]

So personally, I disagree that a country that loses a war should have territory taken away. Border changes should only happen if the people within the area vote for it.
But taking land from Germany wasn't the genocide. The genocide was the killings and forced expulsions of many Germans in Eastern Europe. And not just in formerly German territory that now belongs to Poland. This also happened in Ukraine, Belarus, and Russia.

This is what happens when groups of people are dehumanized in propaganda. WWII needs to stop being taught as "the good war." Especially because decades later, people use it to justify war crimes.

[quote]And did you really expect Poland and Russia to be kind to Germans in those territories after what Germans had done in their countries during WW2?
[/quote]

No, because as I alluded to, the propaganda that the Allies put out often dehumanized Germans and the Japanese. Germans as a people were equated with the Nazi government. And now Zionists are doing the same thing by equating all Palestinians with Hamas. Of course the result is more ethnic cleansing and genocide.
badlands · 22-25, F
@Thinkerbell [quote]ONE such person of such a group is a part, but is that genocide? 10? 100? 1000?[/quote]

Or 32,000?
badlands · 22-25, F
@Thinkerbell [quote]And did you really expect Poland and Russia to be kind to Germans in those territories after what Germans had done in their countries during WW2?[/quote]

Why not?
Thinkerbell · 41-45, F
@BohemianBoo

You: "Netanyahu has said that there are no civilian Palestinians..."

Me: "Oh, really? I doubt it."

You: https://thewire.in/world/northern-gaza-israel-palestine-conflict

As usual, you got it wrong, Boo. From your link:

" Israel’s president [big]Isaac Herzog[/big] claimed in a press conference that there are no innocent civilians in Gaza, while thousands of Palestinians struggled to flee northern Gaza after Israel’s military told some 1.1 million of them to evacuate south ahead of an anticipated military operation.

“It is an entire nation out there that is responsible,” Herzog said at a press conference on Friday, October 13, the HuffPost reported on."

And Herzog made this politically stupid statement less than a week after the Hamas terrorism of Oct 7, perhaps before his better judgment had a chance to return. In any case, it wasn't Netanyahu.

[quote]"After Israel told the Palestinians to go there [Rafah], claiming it was a safe zone for civilians, they immediately started bombing...".[/quote]

No, they concentrated on the northern part of Gaza.When the Israelis get serious about going after what remains of Hamas in Rafah, civilians will have a chance to move.

[quote]"
So personally, I disagree that a country that loses a war should have territory taken away. Border changes should only happen if the people within the area vote for it."[/quote]

Been there, done that. Some border areas were subject to plebiscite after WW1, where the locals could decide which country they wished to join. It didn't do much to ease tensions, however, since the people on the losing side of the plebiscite were of course dissatisfied.

"The idea of holding plebiscites in various border areas, proposed at the Peace Conference in Paris, and later also used to determine the new Austrian border, seems fair and noble today, if we are unaware of its historical context. The people themselves were to decide what country they wanted to be part of. Unfortunately, as it turned out, the results of the vote did not solve political problems, much less the ethnic and cultural differences. In most of the territories where plebiscites were held, despite the borders being set out according to their results, political conflicts did not end. After World War II, the idea of the plebiscites was not taken up again. The shape of the borders in Central and Eastern Europe was determined by leaders of the victorious superpowers at international conferences. Their guarantor was to be a new international organisation (the UN), which this time included the United States."

https://ipn.gov.pl/en/digital-resources/articles/9175,Plebiscites-in-post-Versailles-Europe.html

[quote]"The genocide was the killings and forced expulsions of many Germans in Eastern Europe. And not just in formerly German territory that now belongs to Poland. This also happened in Ukraine, Belarus, and Russia.

This is what happens when groups of people are dehumanized in propaganda." [/quote]

Wrong again, Boo. What Germans did in eastern Europe to earn them their "inhuman" reputation there was not mere propaganda, especially immediately after WW2, when memories of their atrocities were still fresh.
badlands · 22-25, F
@Thinkerbell What did they do? They were organized and created a machine of killing, which is what other groups would do if they could. Israel has the history, the "terrorism", and support to do what it does.
@Thinkerbell Kinda grasping at straws here, don't ya think? Isaac Herzog is a top official in the Netanyahu government.
Netanyahu is ok with this view and his actions have backed that up. Not only has he not condemned this common view in his government, but he's allowing the IDF to continue killing civilians in the tens of thousands

[quote]And Herzog made this politically stupid statement less than a week after the Hamas terrorism of Oct 7, perhaps before his better judgment had a chance to return. In any case, it wasn't Netanyahu.[/quote]

Yes, it wasn't Hitler, it was Goebbels.
The point is that the government is making its intentions clear, and the words are being backed up with actions.

[quote]No, they concentrated on the northern part of Gaza.When the Israelis get serious about going after what remains of Hamas in Rafah, civilians will have a chance to move.[/quote]

As usual, you're wrong. They already bombed Rafah.
Again, they told the civilians to go there, then bombed them. Now they're keeping civilians there without food.

[quote]What Germans did in eastern Europe to earn them their "inhuman" reputation there was not mere propaganda, especially immediately after WW2, when memories of their atrocities were still fresh.[/quote]

See, this is my point. You've been brainwashed into associating all Germans with the Nazis, so it's easy to trick you into thinking that genocide against Germans was justifiable. Now the same thing is happening with the Palestinians. People like you, who are very impressionable, are being brainwashed into associating all Palestinians with Hamas, that way the genocide seems understandable.
Thinkerbell · 41-45, F
@BohemianBoo

[quote]"Isaac Herzog is a top official in the Netanyahu government."
"Yes, it wasn't Hitler, it was Goebbels."[/quote]

😂 😂 😂 Once again, Boo-Boo, you have proved that you can hardly write two
sentences without getting what you're trying to say totally wrong. 😂 😂 😂

No, Herzog is NOT to Netanyahu as Goebbels was to Hitler; Herzog and Netanyahu aren't even in the same political party.

Herzog is in the LABOR party, and was for years the leader of the OPPOSITION to Netanyahu's Likud coalition in the Knesset.

Herzog is currently President of Israel, the largely ceremonial office of head of state with a term of 7 years, which is INDEPENDENT of whoever the Prime Minister (i.e., the chief executive, currently Netanyahu) may be.

Boo-Boo, your grasp of history, of current events and of human nature is nothing short of abysmal. 🙄
@Thinkerbell So you see why sane people are saying Zionists just want to commit genocide? Out of everything I said, the only thing you're addressing is a trivial detail. Like yes, Herzog isn't the Propaganda Minister of Israel. The reason I compared him to Goebbels is because he's a top official in the Israeli government. His words reflect policy. And we can say, [i]well it wasn't the Prime Minister who said that![/i] But the point it the Israeli government is verbally backing up what we're all seeing them doing.
Netanyahu could condemn those remarks from Herzog, but why would he, when he agrees with them?

As for every other point I made, you had to backtrack on, then outright ignore, because you know I'm correct. Israel tells the civilians to go to safe zones, then they bomb those safe zones. They bombed Rafah before they even bothered to claim that now Hamas is there.

My only question is why not just admit that you support the genocide? Are you afraid of driving normies away from Zionism? It's kinda too late for that, the normies are already against Israel's genocide.
badlands · 22-25, F
@BohemianBoo You have made some good points. I would make them too, but the Thinkerbell ignores me.