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Ocasio-Cortez won't call Gaza war a genocide, another lying politician

Lawmaker Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez was recently followed and filmed by a group of protesters while out with her fiance. These protesters were demanding that she call Israel's intervention in Gaza a "genocide", to which she said she has, when she has not.

In January, Cortez avoided calling it a genocide by saying the empty, meaningless words: "I am appalled at the violence and the indiscriminate loss of life", and on the question of genocide:
"they’re still determining it. But in the interim ruling, the fact that they said there’s a responsibility to prevent it, the fact that this word is even in play, the fact that this word is even in our discourse, I think, demonstrates the mass inhumanity that Gazans are facing."

What about the fact that she can't, or won't, say it? The fact that she is only alluding to what other people think? The fact that she is still determining what would be wise to say. The fact, the fact...

This woman isn't an activist, she is a politician. She is thinking about her future, and to do that she must be a moderate, and she must have the support of democratic elites, and any Jews who donate money or help with future campaigns.

If she isn't pretending to care about a cause through misguided and insincere attempts at "speaking out" or "advocating", she is playing the politician and putting her career before anything else. Why would anyone care for her, or any other politician? All they do is think about what they say, who their audience is, and what will happen to them as they reach for power.
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[quote]
All they do is think about what they say, who their audience is, and what will happen to them as they reach for power.
[/quote]

There's an awful lot to chew on in this post, and I'm late to the party, but consider this.

It sounds to me like AOC may finally be at the point where she's growing up and realizing she needs power not just for her own pocket or ego, but to be more effective at accomplishing something.

Maybe she does or doesn't have an agenda beside her own career, ego, or pocket, and maybe it's right or wrong headed.

But I really have a hard time criticizing a politician just for judging the room and thinking about what they say.

What bothers me far worse is people who only judge the room, will say anything, and then later say they didn't say it.
Thinkerbell · 41-45, F
@MistyCee

I have to hand it to Biden in that regard, Misty.

In the old days, when he needed to be racist, he was racist.

And nowadays, when he needs to be woke, he's woke.

@Thinkerbell Yup, I remember Biden on busing. It's not as dramatic as Lindsey Graham, George Wallace or Strom Thurmond, maybe, but I think how a politician eats their words is more telling than the fact that they sometimes need to reconcile with them.

Biden's been a stumbling foot in the mouth kind of guy his entire career, but he's accommodated that, just like he has his stuttering, and he's old, but not just an old fool.

For example, I think saying [Lincoln] Riley's name was pretty shrewd. He could have ignored MTG or insulted or dismissed the Space Lasers lady, but he didn't, and I think it worked out well for him. I'm not sure about getting the name "wrong," but maybe it was "Dark Brandon."
Thinkerbell · 41-45, F
@MistyCee

No, Misty, he got the name wrong; it wasn't on purpose.

He had gone off script, and bumbled again when he referred to Laken Riley's murderer as an illegal, a big no-no in woke circles.

And then, dumb Joe compounded his gaffes yet again by asking, "But how many thousands have been killed by legals?"
As if the killing of Laken Riley (or Kate Steinle, for that matter) was negligible.

[media=https://youtu.be/BbVSaezIHDc]
@Thinkerbell There ya, Stumbling bumbling joe. But, I think for Joe, in particular, it was one hell of a speech, and for all that he did misspeak often, he seemed to know what he was talking about in general, and ... Let put it this way.

In general, I'd give Biden about a C as a speaker. That night though, I think he well out performed his average. He wasn't Obama, Clinton or Reagan, for sure, but he doesn't, and never has had that kind of talent.
Thinkerbell · 41-45, F
@MistyCee

Yes, if he stays strictly on teleprompter script, is well-rehearsed and well-rested enough, they can still pump him full enough of Aricept and Speed to give a more or less coherent speech for the Democrats' purposes.
@Thinkerbell Sure, Biden is old, and I'd prefer someone younger. But Biden doesn't exist in a vacuum; odds are high we'll be choosing between Biden and Trump. So every question about one is an implicit comparison with the other. saying Biden is only good with a teleprompter isn't meaningful until Biden's level of loss is compared with Trump's.

As Misty pointed out, Biden has always been a mediocre speaker; his SOTU didn't indicate any rapid loss in acuity. The same can't be said for Trump, who has mistakenly swapped Biden & Obama eight times so far this year, among many other gaffes.

[quote] they can still pump him full enough of Aricept and Speed to give a more or less coherent speech for the Democrats' purposes.[/quote] If so, why don't these drugs work for Trump then?
Thinkerbell · 41-45, F
@ElwoodBlues

Trump doesn't need the drugs to the extent Biden does.

Can you find a Trump speech as discombobulated as this one?

[media=https://youtu.be/gClvn4WLvxU]
This comment is hidden. Show Comment
badlands · 22-25, F
@MistyCee [quote]But I really have a hard time criticizing a politician just for judging the room and thinking about what they say.[/quote]

A politician doesn't "judge the room" and "think about what they say" to achieve anything; their agenda is to preserve their career and get more. They must remain popular and keep receiving donations from people to do that. The Democrat Party is very popular with American Jews, and she knows that if she calls Gaza a genocide, she will be treated like a pariah and pushed out.
@badlands That's pretty cynical. I've known politicians who see public service as just that, and genuinely tried to do the job they were elected to do well.

I'm not saying its universal by any means, although in an ideal world, it would be.

Sure, they want to be compensated, and as with any job, there are competing motives, but completely discounting any motive other than self promotion seems to me nearly as foolish as thinking they're all Saints.

As to the last part, you're right, using the term genocide would offend a lot of voters, and might even end up getting her primaried.

But its not as simple as a conspiracy by rich Jews to control the Democratic party and twist it to their own ends.

Plus, let's face it, the Democratic party is not really much into "pushing [anyone] out.". Even Republican leadership doesnt do that well, despite folks like Trump screaming that they should be. It's not how American political parties work, at least to date.

Not to say that folks dont get censored, denied choice assignments, or fund raising help, etc, but even excluding them from caucuses is pretty rare, and wouldn't go over well.
Thinkerbell · 41-45, F
@MistyCee


[quote]"This is the guy who tried to stir up an insurrection..."[/quote]

Then why hasn't he been charged with insurrection?
Quick, Misty, tell Jack Smith and Garland they missed something ! 😲

The actual charges are:

• one count of conspiracy to defraud the United States applies to Trump's repeated and widespread efforts to spread false claims about the November 2020 election while knowing they were not true and for allegedly attempting to illegally discount legitimate votes all with the goal of overturning the 2020 election, prosecutors claim in the indictment.

• one count of conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding was brought due to the alleged organized planning by Trump and his allies to disrupt the electoral vote's certification in January 2021.

• one count of obstruction of and attempt to obstruct an official proceeding is tied to Trump and his co-conspirators' alleged efforts after the November 2020 election until Jan. 7, 2021, to block the official certification proceeding in Congress.

• one count of conspiracy against rights refers to Trump and his co-conspirators alleged attempts to "oppress, threaten and intimidate" people in their right to vote in an election.

https://www.npr.org/2023/08/01/1191493880/trump-january-6-charges-indictment-counts

The rest of your comment is 'Yeah, Biden's bad but Trump is worse.'
As personalities, I might agree with you, though neither of them comes anywhere near my idea of a gentleman. But as far as what happened under their entire respective watches, I think most people (if we can believe the polls) think they did better under Trump's administration.
@Thinkerbell asks [quote] Then why hasn't he been charged with insurrection?[/quote]
Actually, Colorado courts have already found that Trump attempted an insurrection.

When that case went to SCOTUS, Trump asked SCOTUS to reverse the insurrection finding, and SCOTUS instead let it stand. SCOTUS said that applying the 14th Amendment was a federal power, not a state power.

That's how SCOTUS put Trump back on the Colorado ballot; NOT by reversing the finding of insurrection.
@Thinkerbell I'm not sure what to make of polls this far out, but this:

[quote]
But as far as what happened under their entire respective watches, I think most people (if we can believe the polls) think they did better under Trump's administration.
[/quote]

This really does make me question the Democratic process.

Pre-Trump's win, I'd probably have said (and might even have said here), that the strength of our government lies not so much in the Democratic nature of it, but in the balance of it, over time.

Shifts in party power back and forth have kept "progress" generally slow and the economy overall predictable, which I think is actually what should be a major function of government, keeping the lights on and pleasing enough people enough of the time to keep things running.

Trump, and really the MAGA movement, has really gotten under my skin. I dont see it as conservative at all, as much as radical and reactionary, rejecting all kinds of norms and rules that allowed humanity to flourish and, well, progress.

Without the Golden Rule, without science, logic, and education, where would we be, and where will we go next?

I
badlands · 22-25, F
@MistyCee Trump would support science and education. What is "logic" to you? We are all human.

Why do you trust an establishment politician over Trump?

The Democrats very much want power, and they are prepared to defy the American people to achieve it. Yet, you see Trump and the MAGA movement as bad, not to be trusted. Trump is honest, your government is not.
@badlands asseverates [quote]Trump would support science and education.[/quote] Is this sarcasm? Is this a joke?? Trump & DeVos repeatedly proposed vast cuts to the Dept of Education budget!

Trump personally rejects the science of climatology and did his best to reject the science of epidemiology! His admin also cut over 600 scientists from the environmental protection agency. And many in MAGA reject evolution and the geological age of the Earth!! Read more about Trump's attacks on science:
[b]https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1877117321002155[/b]

[quote]Trump is honest, [/quote] Trump made 30,573 lies & false claims as president:
[b] https://news.yahoo.com/trump-made-30-573-false-205400099.html[/b]

[sep][sep][sep][center] UPDATE [/center][sep][sep][sep]
Lemme guess, I'm gonna get blocked for telling these inconvenient truths about Trump & MAGA😂🤣
badlands · 22-25, F
@ElwoodBlues I don't block anyone.

Science is "discovering and learning about the world", and it is not up to us to dictate how, or what, others discover and learn about the world. Trump wanted to deregulate the Department of Education and reduce its power, and there is nothing wrong with that.

He has a vision for higher education, which means he is interested in education. Did you hear about his plan to establish a free, online university? It doesn't matter if the plan is not realistic at this stage, all that matters is he is interested in people being educated. He speaks of a "revolution in higher education."

People are allowed to have their views on the environment. Predicting the future on behalf of the world, implementing policy that will damage us now, is foolish. Buying billions of face masks and chucking them into the ocean is also foolish.

Trump isn't very good at lying if we can all tell his lies.
@badlands It's interesting to say "Trump [i]would[/i] support science and education" especially in the same breath as saying Trump is honest.

I see your point. Trump is extremely transactional and is pretty honest about that. Trump seems willing to support just about anything that benefits him, and oppose anything that doesn't.

Wacky stuff like windmills aside, I think Trump's Covid response is a great example. First priority there was always Trump, and when it suited him, he'd work at doing good things. When it didn't, he was more then happy to do bad things.

I get the appeal of his flexibility. But I also get that he flexes for himself and not for anything else, like a greater good.
badlands · 22-25, F
@MistyCee He was out of his depth with the media, but I wonder why?

He ensured that a vaccine was created, and he tried to keep the economy functioning. All of his predictions were correct. He said covid would "sort of disappear", and it sort of has.

He also said: "we cannot let the cure be worse than the problem", and he was right about that. Lockdowns caused damage to our economies, and the damage is still being felt. It is being felt in your country and all over the world.
Thinkerbell · 41-45, F
@ElwoodBlues

[quote]"Actually, Colorado courts have already found that Trump attempted an insurrection."[/quote]

Tut-tut, Elle... you aren't telling the whole story (as usual).

The Supreme Court ruled, [big]9-0[/big], that the Colorado court's 4-3 decision had no standing in the matter of keeping Trump off the ballot, and so that opinion is moot.

The Colorado judges must have known perfectly well beforehand that their opinion would never stand Constitutional muster. They therefore were obviously making a POLITICAL statement rather than rendering an honest judicial opinion.

[quote] "When that case went to SCOTUS, Trump asked SCOTUS to reverse the insurrection finding, and SCOTUS instead let it stand. SCOTUS said that applying the 14th Amendment was a federal power, not a state power."[/quote]

Tut-tut, Ellie, you aren't telling the whole story again.

The SCOTUS ruled that CONGRESS has the power to exclude someone from federal office under Sec 3 of the 14th Amendment, not the SCOTUS.

[quote]"That's how SCOTUS put Trump back on the Colorado ballot; NOT by reversing the finding of insurrection."[/quote]

Why would the SCOTUS rule on a point (i.e., in the Colorado decision) that it had already made moot, and especially when the SCOTUS ruled that it was up to CONGRESS to decide?
@Thinkerbell asks [quote]Why would the SCOTUS rule on a point ...[/quote] Because Trump and his lawyers specifically asked SCOTUS to do so.
Thinkerbell · 41-45, F
@ElwoodBlues

Wrong again, Ellie...

The SCOTUS ruled that it was up to CONGRESS to make that determination, not the Court.

But nothing was preventing Jack Smith from charging Trump with criminal insurrection or conspiracy thereto, and yet he didn't. WHY?

Did Smith think a jury would find that Trump was too old and senile to
understand what he was doing, by any chance...? 🤔
Thinkerbell · 41-45, F
@MistyCee


[quote]"This really does make me question the Democratic process."[/quote]

It's based on the premise that you can't fool most of the people most of the time, and it's the worst form of government, except for all the others (Churchill), as bitter historical experience has shown.

P.S. I would have used a small "d". The Democrats are doing their best to move us to a de facto one-party country, because they know best about everything, don'tcha know.

[quote]"Pre-Trump's win, I'd probably have said (and might even have said here), that the strength of our government lies not so much in the Democratic nature of it, but in the balance of it, over time."[/quote]

Why just pre-Trump? The usual pattern continued after Trump was elected.

[quote]"Shifts in party power back and forth have kept "progress" generally slow and the economy overall predictable, which I think is actually what should be a major function of government, keeping the lights on and pleasing enough people enough of the time to keep things running."[/quote]

Seems like a good idea; it has served us well for quite a while.

[quote] "Trump, and really the MAGA movement, has really gotten under my skin. I dont see it as conservative at all, as much as radical and reactionary, rejecting all kinds of norms and rules that allowed humanity to flourish and, well, progress."[/quote]

Well, if it is what you say it is, why not let the democratic process work itself out? What's the alternative? To throw everyone with impure MAGA thoughts into a re-education camp?

[quote] "Without the Golden Rule, without science, logic, and education, where would we be, and where will we go next?"[/quote]

One could well ask the current Democrats that same question. 🙄
@Thinkerbell [quote] The Democrats are doing their best to move us to a de facto one-party country,[/quote] The Democrats are doing their best to make gerrymandering and voter suppression things of the past. Why? Because the majority of the electorate leans towards the big tent of the Democrats.

[quote] why not let the democratic process work itself out?[/quote] Is this your way of saying "ignore the evidence about a person just because he happens to be a candidate"??

Wow, Bernie Madoff could have avoided prosecution if he had simply run for office! "Cops and courts hate it when you use this one trick"😂🤣

Look, investigations of Trump's apparently illegal activities began as soon as he left office. And then, Trump used every legal trick in the book to stall stall stall. And then as soon as the midterm elections had ended, Trump lost not a minute in declaring his candidacy. Did he speed the legal cases to clear his name? No, he did the opposite so he could use his candidacy as an excuse to duck the legal cases.

Why not let the democratic process work itself out? Why not let the legal processes work themselves out?? Since when did declaring a candidacy become a get-out-of-prosecution-free card???

[quote]One could well ask the current Democrats that same question.[/quote]
Democrats aren't the ones denying the science of climatology.
Democrats aren't the ones denying epidemiology.
Democrats aren't the ones denying evolution.
Democrats aren't the ones banning hundreds of books.
Democrats aren't the ones denying that guns are now the most common cause of death among children.
@Thinkerbell

[quote]

Well, if it is what you say it is, why not let the democratic process work itself out?
[/quote]

FWIW, I am in favor of letting the Democratic Process run itself out, despite the fact that I'm alarmed by the polls.

Pointedly, I don't think taking him off the ballot is a good thing for the country, for example, regardless of the legal issues with that.

The thing is, though, I also think the judicial process should be allowed to run itself out, and in that case, I'm not at all sympathetic to Trump's bs about absolute immunity, or his pleas to stall proceedings until after the election.