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QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
@Bigwill75 This silly whining doesn't make you look any less insane for suggesting that democrats started covid to get Trump out lmao.
stratosranger · M
@MarmeeMarch Now now! You have to respect them more than hillbillys because liberals have educations! Yes they’re mostly in liberal arts and aren’t worth a damn, not to mention all that student loan debt they’re carrying, but they’re ever-so smart! 😂🤣
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AbbeyRhode · F
That's because there are no Biden supporters, only Trump haters. A pathetic, brainwashed, hate-filled group of people who froth at the mouth screaming how much they hate Trump, but completely unable to provide one valid reason why. The media programs them, and they obey. They choose to hand power over to a lying, cheating pedophile and traitor to this country, and his equally horrible running mate, rather than the man CNN told them to hate.
Northwest · M
[quote]I can't see why some people voted for him[/quote]
About 81 Million Americans to be exact.
[quote]I want to hear something he has done well![/quote]
There's this company called Google, it has an amazing product, called a search engine.
https://www.miamidadedems.org/joe-biden-accomplishments-list
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/29/opinion/joe-biden.html
https://www.newsweek.com/joe-biden-achieved-40-years-politics-1541278
I did not vote for him to worship a personality. That's not what politics is about, something Trumpsters may not be aware of.
About 81 Million Americans to be exact.
[quote]I want to hear something he has done well![/quote]
There's this company called Google, it has an amazing product, called a search engine.
https://www.miamidadedems.org/joe-biden-accomplishments-list
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/29/opinion/joe-biden.html
https://www.newsweek.com/joe-biden-achieved-40-years-politics-1541278
I did not vote for him to worship a personality. That's not what politics is about, something Trumpsters may not be aware of.
QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
@dsrice Of course there is “generic” insulin - for a diabetic you seem a bit confused about both history and politics of insulin in America.
https://www.goodrx.com/blog/how-much-does-insulin-cost-compare-brands/
[quote] Since 2019, the overall retail price of insulins has declined by nearly 6%. Most of this decline can be attributed to the recent approval of generics, and the biosimilar counterparts that have been on the market.
In 2019, Eli Lilly released the first generic insulin, insulin lispro, the counterpart to the popular rapid-acting insulin Humalog. Since then, the FDA has approved generic versions of Humalog 75/25 (insulin lispro 75/25), Novolog (insulin aspart), and Novolog 70/30 (insulin aspart 70/30).
At present, retail prices for generic insulin lispro and insulin aspart are about half that of their brand-name counterparts, Humalog and Novolog, respectively. The same goes for the generic mixed insulins, insulin lispro 75/25 and insulin aspart 70/30, compared to Humalog 75/25 and Novolog 70/30, respectively. [/quote]
Btw, as anyone with a chronic condition, you should be thrilled that Trump was not successful in his goals of killing Obamacare.
https://www.goodrx.com/blog/how-much-does-insulin-cost-compare-brands/
[quote] Since 2019, the overall retail price of insulins has declined by nearly 6%. Most of this decline can be attributed to the recent approval of generics, and the biosimilar counterparts that have been on the market.
In 2019, Eli Lilly released the first generic insulin, insulin lispro, the counterpart to the popular rapid-acting insulin Humalog. Since then, the FDA has approved generic versions of Humalog 75/25 (insulin lispro 75/25), Novolog (insulin aspart), and Novolog 70/30 (insulin aspart 70/30).
At present, retail prices for generic insulin lispro and insulin aspart are about half that of their brand-name counterparts, Humalog and Novolog, respectively. The same goes for the generic mixed insulins, insulin lispro 75/25 and insulin aspart 70/30, compared to Humalog 75/25 and Novolog 70/30, respectively. [/quote]
Btw, as anyone with a chronic condition, you should be thrilled that Trump was not successful in his goals of killing Obamacare.
Northwest · M
@dsrice [quote]Maybe do so research with facts....That is what I deliver everyday.....Just the facts.[/quote]
Funny thing, if you read that link I included in my response, you might have saved yourself some embarrassment.
Alternately, you COULD have read past the first page of the article you linked to, like page 2 or 3, you would have seen this:
[quote][b]Copycat insulins now available
[/b]
Despite these obstacles, some less-expensive versions of name-brand insulins have become available to consumers in recent years, including:
Insulin Lispro
This is Eli Lilly’s own low-cost version of Humalog, its bolus (short-acting) insulin cash cow. Announced in March 2019 and launched in May of that year, it’s not a biosimilar, but rather an “authorized generic” according to the FDA. That means it’s essentially identical to Humalog. All Lilly did was slap a new label on an existing brand — a move they say they would have liked to have done earlier, but they first had to grapple with cumbersome government regulations.
What it costs and who benefits: The list price of Lispro is 50 percent lower than that of Humalog, which makes it currently about $137 per vial. (Many diabetes advocates insist it should cost a lot less.) According to Eli Lilly, the patients most likely to benefit from it are Medicare Part D beneficiaries, people with high-deductible health plans, and the uninsured who currently use Humalog.
Insulin Aspart and Insulin Aspart Mix
This is Novo Nordisk’s lower-cost version of its NovoLog and 70/30 mix, both mealtime (fast-acting) insulin brands. Announced on September 6, 2019, these authorized generics are exactly the same as NovoLog and mixed insulins, except with a different name on the label.
What it costs and who benefits: The list price of Insulin Aspart/Insulin Aspart Mix in both pen and vial options are 50 percent lower than that of NovoLog and 70/30 mix (such as $144.68 per 10mL vial, compared to $280.36 for NovoLog). These half-price versions became available in January 2020, and the patients most likely to benefit are those on high-deductible health plans and the uninsured who currently use NovoLog or 70/30.
Admelog
This is yet another version of Humalog, but it’s a biosimilar made by a competing company, Sanofi.
What it costs and who benefits: When it was released in April 2018, Sanofi proclaimed that Admelog had the “lowest list price” of any mealtime insulin on the market. But, alas, it costs about only 15 percent less than Humalog, as DiabetesMine reported.
That said, it’s more available than Lispro to people with commercial insurance. And in May 2019, Sanofi announced their ValYou Savings Program, which offers deals on Admelog and its other insulin brands for those who don’t qualify for its other Patient Assistance Programs.
Basaglar
This version of Sanofi’s basal (long-acting) Lantus insulin was introduced in the United States by Lilly and Boehringer Ingelheim in December 2016. In the U.S., it’s technically called a follow-on insulin because of its regulatory pathway, while in Europe, it’s considered a biosimilar.
What it costs and who benefits: Basaglar generally costs about 15 percent less than Lantus. Since the cost savings are minimal, it’s been referred to as “the expensive Lantus ‘generic.’” Frustrating.
Basaglar is available on many commercial insurance plans. And Lilly offers a Patient Assistance Program for Basaglar, like its other medications.
Semglee (glargine)
Pharma companies Mylan and Biocon announced in June 2020 they had received FDA clearance for their new Semglee basal insulin, which is the second knockoff of Sanofi’s Lantus long-acting insulin. This insulin had been approved in Europe, Australia, and other countries under different brand names before finally getting a green light for sale in the U.S.
Semglee is FDA-approved for children ages 6 to 15, as well as adults with both type 1 and type 2 diabetes. It will come in U-100 concentration in both 10mL vials, as well as 300-unit, prefilled insulin pens with one-unit dosing increments. Pricing details weren’t yet finalized at the time of regulatory approval, but Mylan expects to finalize launch plans by the end of 2020.
Are copycat insulins the same as originals?
Only one so far is identical: Lispro, made by the same company that produces the original, Humalog.
The FDA only requires biosimilars or follow-ons to be “highly similar” to the medications they’re copying, but not identical. So if you want to substitute a copycat insulin for the type you’re using now, it’s important to work with your healthcare provider to determine if the dosage needs to be adjusted a bit.
Homemade, open-source insulin
Since pharma companies aren’t doing a good job of making affordable insulin, the Open Insulin Project wants to help people make it on their own. The project is working on what it calls a “freely available, open protocol” for the production of low-cost insulin. Think of it as do-it-yourself generic insulin for independent developers.
The project’s founder, Anthony Di Franco, lives with type 1 diabetes himself. He envisions moving production away from pharma companies to “small collectives or pharmacies, clinics, and hospitals” where insulin can be manufactured in platforms that would cost only about as much as a small car.
The group has made some progress since they got initial funding in 2015 and have recently gotten a lot of media attention. But it’s too soon to predict if, and when, they’ll make a big difference in the lives of PWD.
Even if they develop a protocol for home-brewed insulin, according to experts at Colorado State, the success of the project will be “severely limited by the cost of regulatory approvals, which include proving biological consistency, safety, and possibly efficacy.”
It’s worth keeping an eye on these intrepid pioneers. But sadly, it doesn’t seem likely that they’re going to solve the insulin pricing crisis in the very near future.
What about “Walmart insulin”?
Since we’re talking about cheaper insulin, Novo Nordisk’s Novolin ReliOn brand deserves a mention here. Sold for just $25 a vial without a prescription at Walmart, ReliOn includes “Regular” (short-acting), NPH (longer-acting), and 70/30 (biphasic insulin), a combination of the other two.
These ReliOn products are not generics or biosimilars, but rather older “human” insulins — as opposed to the newer “analog” versions being produced today. Many patients and doctors agree that these older formulations clearly don’t provide the same level of blood glucose management as newer insulins.
But if you’re forced to choose between using them and doing without or rationing insulin, these older insulins are certainly preferable.
[/quote]
Funny thing, if you read that link I included in my response, you might have saved yourself some embarrassment.
Alternately, you COULD have read past the first page of the article you linked to, like page 2 or 3, you would have seen this:
[quote][b]Copycat insulins now available
[/b]
Despite these obstacles, some less-expensive versions of name-brand insulins have become available to consumers in recent years, including:
Insulin Lispro
This is Eli Lilly’s own low-cost version of Humalog, its bolus (short-acting) insulin cash cow. Announced in March 2019 and launched in May of that year, it’s not a biosimilar, but rather an “authorized generic” according to the FDA. That means it’s essentially identical to Humalog. All Lilly did was slap a new label on an existing brand — a move they say they would have liked to have done earlier, but they first had to grapple with cumbersome government regulations.
What it costs and who benefits: The list price of Lispro is 50 percent lower than that of Humalog, which makes it currently about $137 per vial. (Many diabetes advocates insist it should cost a lot less.) According to Eli Lilly, the patients most likely to benefit from it are Medicare Part D beneficiaries, people with high-deductible health plans, and the uninsured who currently use Humalog.
Insulin Aspart and Insulin Aspart Mix
This is Novo Nordisk’s lower-cost version of its NovoLog and 70/30 mix, both mealtime (fast-acting) insulin brands. Announced on September 6, 2019, these authorized generics are exactly the same as NovoLog and mixed insulins, except with a different name on the label.
What it costs and who benefits: The list price of Insulin Aspart/Insulin Aspart Mix in both pen and vial options are 50 percent lower than that of NovoLog and 70/30 mix (such as $144.68 per 10mL vial, compared to $280.36 for NovoLog). These half-price versions became available in January 2020, and the patients most likely to benefit are those on high-deductible health plans and the uninsured who currently use NovoLog or 70/30.
Admelog
This is yet another version of Humalog, but it’s a biosimilar made by a competing company, Sanofi.
What it costs and who benefits: When it was released in April 2018, Sanofi proclaimed that Admelog had the “lowest list price” of any mealtime insulin on the market. But, alas, it costs about only 15 percent less than Humalog, as DiabetesMine reported.
That said, it’s more available than Lispro to people with commercial insurance. And in May 2019, Sanofi announced their ValYou Savings Program, which offers deals on Admelog and its other insulin brands for those who don’t qualify for its other Patient Assistance Programs.
Basaglar
This version of Sanofi’s basal (long-acting) Lantus insulin was introduced in the United States by Lilly and Boehringer Ingelheim in December 2016. In the U.S., it’s technically called a follow-on insulin because of its regulatory pathway, while in Europe, it’s considered a biosimilar.
What it costs and who benefits: Basaglar generally costs about 15 percent less than Lantus. Since the cost savings are minimal, it’s been referred to as “the expensive Lantus ‘generic.’” Frustrating.
Basaglar is available on many commercial insurance plans. And Lilly offers a Patient Assistance Program for Basaglar, like its other medications.
Semglee (glargine)
Pharma companies Mylan and Biocon announced in June 2020 they had received FDA clearance for their new Semglee basal insulin, which is the second knockoff of Sanofi’s Lantus long-acting insulin. This insulin had been approved in Europe, Australia, and other countries under different brand names before finally getting a green light for sale in the U.S.
Semglee is FDA-approved for children ages 6 to 15, as well as adults with both type 1 and type 2 diabetes. It will come in U-100 concentration in both 10mL vials, as well as 300-unit, prefilled insulin pens with one-unit dosing increments. Pricing details weren’t yet finalized at the time of regulatory approval, but Mylan expects to finalize launch plans by the end of 2020.
Are copycat insulins the same as originals?
Only one so far is identical: Lispro, made by the same company that produces the original, Humalog.
The FDA only requires biosimilars or follow-ons to be “highly similar” to the medications they’re copying, but not identical. So if you want to substitute a copycat insulin for the type you’re using now, it’s important to work with your healthcare provider to determine if the dosage needs to be adjusted a bit.
Homemade, open-source insulin
Since pharma companies aren’t doing a good job of making affordable insulin, the Open Insulin Project wants to help people make it on their own. The project is working on what it calls a “freely available, open protocol” for the production of low-cost insulin. Think of it as do-it-yourself generic insulin for independent developers.
The project’s founder, Anthony Di Franco, lives with type 1 diabetes himself. He envisions moving production away from pharma companies to “small collectives or pharmacies, clinics, and hospitals” where insulin can be manufactured in platforms that would cost only about as much as a small car.
The group has made some progress since they got initial funding in 2015 and have recently gotten a lot of media attention. But it’s too soon to predict if, and when, they’ll make a big difference in the lives of PWD.
Even if they develop a protocol for home-brewed insulin, according to experts at Colorado State, the success of the project will be “severely limited by the cost of regulatory approvals, which include proving biological consistency, safety, and possibly efficacy.”
It’s worth keeping an eye on these intrepid pioneers. But sadly, it doesn’t seem likely that they’re going to solve the insulin pricing crisis in the very near future.
What about “Walmart insulin”?
Since we’re talking about cheaper insulin, Novo Nordisk’s Novolin ReliOn brand deserves a mention here. Sold for just $25 a vial without a prescription at Walmart, ReliOn includes “Regular” (short-acting), NPH (longer-acting), and 70/30 (biphasic insulin), a combination of the other two.
These ReliOn products are not generics or biosimilars, but rather older “human” insulins — as opposed to the newer “analog” versions being produced today. Many patients and doctors agree that these older formulations clearly don’t provide the same level of blood glucose management as newer insulins.
But if you’re forced to choose between using them and doing without or rationing insulin, these older insulins are certainly preferable.
[/quote]
QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
Hopefully, he'll start doing stuff now that he's President.
What happened before got looked at for the primaries, but at the end of the day, it seems like all that mattered about his past was what it seemed to indicate that he [i]could[/i] do in the future: beat Trump, and have the best shot of anyone standing to clean up the mess and the stop the bleeding.
Biden doesnt really have a cult like Trump or even Obama.
For most of many of his "supporters" that's a positive and not a negative, in part because he expects to be held accountable, serve the country and earn any kudos he might get.
I'm looking forward to him actually trying to serve the Country, and rating him according to his performance without being told I'm an evil lib and that reporters who dare to report are enemies of the people.
What happened before got looked at for the primaries, but at the end of the day, it seems like all that mattered about his past was what it seemed to indicate that he [i]could[/i] do in the future: beat Trump, and have the best shot of anyone standing to clean up the mess and the stop the bleeding.
Biden doesnt really have a cult like Trump or even Obama.
For most of many of his "supporters" that's a positive and not a negative, in part because he expects to be held accountable, serve the country and earn any kudos he might get.
I'm looking forward to him actually trying to serve the Country, and rating him according to his performance without being told I'm an evil lib and that reporters who dare to report are enemies of the people.
SW-User
beckyromero · 36-40, F
ViciDraco · 36-40, M
I did not vote for Joe Biden. I was a Sanders supporter. What I did was vote against Donald Trump.
I do think his rescue america plan is good. Not great, but it's a good start. I say this as a person who makes too much to actually get the stimulus checks, so it isn't me wanting free money because I don't get it.
I'm waiting, just as you are, to see if he does good things. My concern is that he will try to govern from the middle, whereas I want a president that will fight for more progressive changes.
I do think his rescue america plan is good. Not great, but it's a good start. I say this as a person who makes too much to actually get the stimulus checks, so it isn't me wanting free money because I don't get it.
I'm waiting, just as you are, to see if he does good things. My concern is that he will try to govern from the middle, whereas I want a president that will fight for more progressive changes.
JeanAnna · F
Biden knows he is well liked, he doesn't need all the praise that Trump needed so badly.
What's funny is I asked that same question to Trump supporters, not one of them could tell me anything good that Trump had done. All they did was make snide comments about Hillary, Obama and now Biden. But it would be hard to do, since Trump didn't do anything good for our country, even incited insurrection and was impeached twice in one term, lost a legitimate election and lied about it. No one can defend that.
What's funny is I asked that same question to Trump supporters, not one of them could tell me anything good that Trump had done. All they did was make snide comments about Hillary, Obama and now Biden. But it would be hard to do, since Trump didn't do anything good for our country, even incited insurrection and was impeached twice in one term, lost a legitimate election and lied about it. No one can defend that.
JeanAnna · F
@Strictgram Trump didn't do anything but lie. And it's not blind hatred, my eyes are wide open to the facts of what Trump has done to our country. Too bad you are ignoring all of the chaos, scandals that went on during the last four years. He completely ignored COVID, saying it would disappear, didn't say one word about the 400,000 fellow Americans that have died.
Go tell your lies to someone else, I'm not buying any of it.
Go tell your lies to someone else, I'm not buying any of it.
Strictgram · 70-79, C
JoeyFoxx · 51-55, M
On Day 1 of the Presidency
Mandatory mask wearing on Federal property during the worst pandemic in 100 years... with a mere flick of a pen.
Threatening to fire anyone who behaves in a disrespectful way
Among other things.
He's just getting warmed up.
Oh.. and on day 1 of his Presidency, he has a national approval rating of 60%, where the orange menace never got about 50%
He also hasn't instigating anyone to riot.
So... as lightweight as all of this is, it's already more effective than what his predecessor has accomplished.
Are you really that butthurt over the election?
Mandatory mask wearing on Federal property during the worst pandemic in 100 years... with a mere flick of a pen.
Threatening to fire anyone who behaves in a disrespectful way
Among other things.
He's just getting warmed up.
Oh.. and on day 1 of his Presidency, he has a national approval rating of 60%, where the orange menace never got about 50%
He also hasn't instigating anyone to riot.
So... as lightweight as all of this is, it's already more effective than what his predecessor has accomplished.
Are you really that butthurt over the election?
JoeyFoxx · 51-55, M
@Strictgram I bet you thought that storming the Capitol was reasonable
JoeyFoxx · 51-55, M
@Strictgram If you were paying attention, you would have heard plenty from me.
It's ironic that you are accusing me of diversionary tactics
It's ironic that you are accusing me of diversionary tactics
Budwick · 70-79, M
[@JoeyFoxx ]
[quote]But, yesterday, he was already working with the senate to find a coalition of senators from both parties to help guide legislation through. This is what a President does and one of the menu things that the orange menace never attempted. [/quote]
Yeah, the reversal of immigration stuff is especially helpful while our economy is crippled from corona, most citizens out of work and thousands of illegals on the way looking for work. And of course it wouldn't be nice to find out who they are and hopefully they aren't bringing in disease.
Way to go JOe!
[quote]But, yesterday, he was already working with the senate to find a coalition of senators from both parties to help guide legislation through. This is what a President does and one of the menu things that the orange menace never attempted. [/quote]
Yeah, the reversal of immigration stuff is especially helpful while our economy is crippled from corona, most citizens out of work and thousands of illegals on the way looking for work. And of course it wouldn't be nice to find out who they are and hopefully they aren't bringing in disease.
Way to go JOe!
dsrice · 56-60, M
I am not sure if everyone is hearing me right - I want to know what Joe Biden did for you personally. What policy made it better for you. There is just a lot of blaming, I want to know why Joe Biden is a good candidate, he has done nothing for me, the country or the economy. I really want it to work out, but I think this is going to be a tough four years. Then you will all see when Joe Biden is all about.
beckyromero · 36-40, F
@MarkPaul
Not judging @dsrice specifically, but it's been my experience on SW that similar "questions" by Trumpets are only to solicit comments to which they will then criticize.
Anyone truly interested in Biden's career and accomplishments as a senator and vice president can use this thing I believe is called, "Google", or go to some place called "Amazon" for further reading.
Not judging @dsrice specifically, but it's been my experience on SW that similar "questions" by Trumpets are only to solicit comments to which they will then criticize.
Anyone truly interested in Biden's career and accomplishments as a senator and vice president can use this thing I believe is called, "Google", or go to some place called "Amazon" for further reading.
wildbill83 · 36-40, M
I'm sick to death of these idiots that are like "oh, but biden is charismatic and has a nice smile..." 🙄
So did Hitler and Stalin... and virtually every other ambitious mass murdering genocidal dictator throughout history...
They didn't just magically fly in and seize power, they talked their way into it with lullaby's and promises of grandeur to anyone stupid and naïve enough to listen to/accept them...
So did Hitler and Stalin... and virtually every other ambitious mass murdering genocidal dictator throughout history...
They didn't just magically fly in and seize power, they talked their way into it with lullaby's and promises of grandeur to anyone stupid and naïve enough to listen to/accept them...
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Strictgram · 70-79, C
@MalteseFalconPunch With Paris accord US suffers and China and India get a free ride. How is that a good thing?
@SW-User I'm tempted to put myself in the corner after reading what I posted, actually.
Sure, I stand by my opinions, but my obnoxious self-rightious tone was embarassing and insulting.
Thanks for helping me see it.
Sure, I stand by my opinions, but my obnoxious self-rightious tone was embarassing and insulting.
Thanks for helping me see it.
monte3 · 70-79, M
@SW-User 😆 tru WAS forced to leave the White House! Didn’t ypu watch on Wednesday?
latinbutterfly · F
stratosranger · M
black4white · 56-60, M
Respect people of all colors...respect people of different genders...He is against white supremacist and will say so. He seems like a good man in general, i mean we all have our faults but those few are pretty high up there.
black4white · 56-60, M
@dsrice Trump didnt put any one to work.... he rode the coat tails of the obama administration and then completed EFF'ed that up.
Its numbers man..we have more people percentage wise every year so yeah in numbers more will work..its not rocket science. He also called out more hate groups then all previous presidents...he also got impeached 2 times.... he also supports hatred and makes fun of people with disabilities... oh yeah and he gives the bestest speech... talks at a 8th grade level and to top it off...he cant even go to his home state of NY.... why because people know he is shit. Will be so nice to see how this crumbles his whole name..wooo hoooo
Its numbers man..we have more people percentage wise every year so yeah in numbers more will work..its not rocket science. He also called out more hate groups then all previous presidents...he also got impeached 2 times.... he also supports hatred and makes fun of people with disabilities... oh yeah and he gives the bestest speech... talks at a 8th grade level and to top it off...he cant even go to his home state of NY.... why because people know he is shit. Will be so nice to see how this crumbles his whole name..wooo hoooo
Strictgram · 70-79, C
@black4white Trump is gone. Try directing your hate elsewhere. I suggest antifa, blm, China, communists, leftists and big tech.
stratosranger · M
I don’t believe what a liberal rag or television broadcast tells me. [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPstn3EIToY]@monte3
DeluxedEdition · 26-30, F
@DeluxedEdition true
dsrice · 56-60, M
@DeluxedEdition Yes, agreed.
Zonuss · 41-45, M
Joe Biden has kept this economy safe. He is restoring dignity and pride back in America. All of these other trivial issues are irrelevant. He is doing a good job. We don't need a self absorbed reckless clown in the White House. Imagine if it were your son or daughter who got killed on January 6. Then you would get it.
Quetzalcoatlus · 46-50, M
Strictgram · 70-79, C
@Quetzalcoatlus Paris means the US suffers and China and India get a free pass. If that's your warped view you're entitled to it.
whowasthatmaskedman · 70-79, M
dsrice · 56-60, M
@whowasthatmaskedman Yes, they will find out soon.
SW-User
So you are now the lead Trumpster since you didn’t get the responses you wanted for your flabby body and dick?
AthrillatheHunt · 51-55, M
Fifty years isn’t long enough to enact an agenda. Give him 50 more.
wildbill83 · 36-40, M
[youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzC-l7tovFk]
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