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What do you think about the riots/protests in the US?

Do laws matter? What is new about immigration that now makes it ok to do so illegally?
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TinyViolins · 31-35, M
When it comes to Los Angeles, it's an area with a large population of Hispanics. Undocumented immigrants have been integrating themselves into those neighborhoods for decades. We're talking about people's family, friends, neighbors, coworkers and partners. People that contribute positively to their lives.

Then you take Donald Trump's approach of calling and conflating these people with violent criminals, it stands in total contrast with the reality they live and see every day. It's not going to win his administration any favors.

Seeing his heavy-handed tactic of sending in numbers of armed men in special ops gear and helicopters to pick up line cooks and day-laborers, to smash windows and drag people out of their cars that pose no harm to the community, to drag people out of court who were actively trying to abide by the law, and you're going to get genuine fear and anger. It's a blatant abuse of power.

This whole protest started as a result of ICE agents performing a raid right near an elementary school that was having a graduation ceremony where Hispanic families were gathered to celebrate their child's academic achievements. There was a viral TikTok video of a grown man reduced to tears at seeing how traumatized these children and families were at this immigration raid really spoke volumes to people in the area.

Maybe it's misinformation or concerned community members or a mix of both, but that was really the straw that broke the camel's back. When people start messing around with your kids, that's generally going invoke a lot of anger and pushback.

Creating and exploiting divisions within a population is what authoritarian leaders all throughout history have done. Trump knows or has people in his circle that know that making ICE's presence felt in these immigrant communities was going to inflame a lot of tensions.

It's important to remember that the world of politics is dominated by narratives. When you can control the narrative, you can control public opinion. Trump knows from 2020 that people are not going to take the abuse of justice lightly. At some point there was going to be retaliation and protests, that the mob mentality would take over, and that would be all the justification he needed to send in the military. It's an intimidation tactic. Reports on the ground were that police had largely contained the rioting and the troops were unnecessary.

I don't condone the actions of any of the parties involved, but it's important to remember the words of one of history's greatest protester, Martin Luther King Jr.

Riots are socially destructive and self-defeating. ... But in the final analysis, a riot is the language of the unheard ... large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice, equality, and humanity. And so in a real sense our nation's summers of riots are caused by our nation's winters of delay. And as long as America postpones justice, we stand in the position of having these recurrences of violence and riots over and over again.
@TinyViolins Such an insightful analysis. Thank you.
sree251 · 41-45, M
@TinyViolins
When it comes to Los Angeles, it's an area with a large population of Hispanics. Undocumented immigrants have been integrating themselves into those neighborhoods for decades. We're talking about people's family, friends, neighbors, coworkers and partners. People that contribute positively to their lives.

It doesn't matter how long the integration has been, it is still illegal to live hidden among Americans in America. Those Americans who harbor illegals are also culpable and need to be arrested also. For example, a Mexican restaurant owner who hire illegals is violating the law.

Then you take Donald Trump's approach of calling and conflating these people with violent criminals, it stands in total contrast with the reality they live and see every day. It's not going to win his administration any favors.

Criminals are criminals whether they are violent or not. All poisonous snakes are dangerous even if some have not bitten you.

Seeing his heavy-handed tactic of sending in numbers of armed men in special ops gear and helicopters to pick up line cooks and day-laborers, to smash windows and drag people out of their cars that pose no harm to the community, to drag people out of court who were actively trying to abide by the law, and you're going to get genuine fear and anger. It's a blatant abuse of power.

When use of power is necessary, you blame the line cooks and day-laborers rather than law enforcement. I use a mouse trap to deal with rodents that have no business coming into my house. Sure it is heavy handed. When it snaps, it draws blood. I am the community, and it doesn't include the rats that came into my house.

This whole protest started as a result of ICE agents performing a raid right near an elementary school that was having a graduation ceremony where Hispanic families were gathered to celebrate their child's academic achievements. There was a viral TikTok video of a grown man reduced to tears at seeing how traumatized these children and families were at this immigration raid really spoke volumes to people in the area.

You are siding with the rats. We are suffering a rodent infestation and you are complaining about the exterminator doing his job setting traps and poison boxes? Pest extermination cost money in terms of taxpayers' money.

Maybe it's misinformation or concerned community members or a mix of both, but that was really the straw that broke the camel's back. When people start messing around with your kids, that's generally going invoke a lot of anger and pushback.

No law enforcement would mess with you if you are not consorting with and harboring pests in America. If you like living with rats, move to Mexico.

Creating and exploiting divisions within a population is what authoritarian leaders all throughout history have done. Trump knows or has people in his circle that know that making ICE's presence felt in these immigrant communities was going to inflame a lot of tensions.

The whole USA is is an immigrant community. Don't conflate citizens with illegals.

It's important to remember that the world of politics is dominated by narratives. When you can control the narrative, you can control public opinion. Trump knows from 2020 that people are not going to take the abuse of justice lightly. At some point there was going to be retaliation and protests, that the mob mentality would take over, and that would be all the justification he needed to send in the military. It's an intimidation tactic. Reports on the ground were that police had largely contained the rioting and the troops were unnecessary.

Watch the TV. The street violence is ongoing on live TV. Why would the military be mobilized to deal with law-abiding citizens?

I don't condone the actions of any of the parties involved, but it's important to remember the words of one of history's greatest protester, Martin Luther King Jr.

Martin did not jump on cars waving the Mexican flag.
Ferise1 · 46-50, M
@TinyViolins are you from LA? That’s messed up if it’s true… if they’ve been there for decades and they’re totally integrated in the community. They shouldn’t be deported at all!!!
whowasthatmaskedman · 70-79, M
An ex British copper was on our TV last night and made a telling point. British police face a crowd like that with the attitude that they want everyone to get home safe that night. American police go in with the attitude that they want to WIN.. Its not training. Its just how they are brought up..😷
@whowasthatmaskedman I can’t help but wonder if that Brit ever worked with Americans.
whowasthatmaskedman · 70-79, M
@bijouxbroussard He did. Part of an international exchnage training program. That was why he spoke up. Familiar with both sides. And now living in OZ.😷
whowasthatmaskedman · 70-79, M
@Crazywaterspring And athletics is where the culture of "Being the winner" is drilled in...😷
Crazywaterspring · 61-69, M
I've sponsored several people into the US legally. They don't have much empathy for those who never tried to get legal status or to even learn English.

Arresting people at a courthouse or at a school is wrong.
samueltyler2 · 80-89, M
@Steve42 if anyone is caught in a violent outbreak, they are appropriately dealt with, using legal US procedures, with constitutional protections.
Steve42 · 56-60, M
@samueltyler2 Where does it say anywhere that foreign nationals are mentioned in the Constitution?
samueltyler2 · 80-89, M
@Steve42 what are you now trying to speak about? If you are trying to push the nonsense that a non-US citizen is not protected by the US constitution, I suggest that you either have forgotten that subject from your schooling, or played hookie that day!
Charity · 61-69
There are bad people in all nationalities / ethnic groups.

Some of these people have been here for decades and established their lives even though they don't have legal citizenship. Some are fairly recent comers. Here in Houston they arrested three who was actually were actually in court going through the legal process to obtain their proper paperwork and they were arrested.

Trump is just gathering up people, those he can put a hand on. The criminals the ones on the streets that he talks so much about mainly seem to allude ICE.

And as far as Trump is concerned there is no due process, after all the supreme Court did say whatever he does presidential capacity while he's in office he cannot be charged for, giving him the right quite frankly to do as he please.
Thrust · 56-60, M
@Charity a deportation is not a criminal conviction. Due process is irrelevant.

Don't believe the lying narrative the anti American are pushing
Charity · 61-69
@Thrust where in my statement did I say deportation was a conviction.

Due process according to the laws does not mean criminal convictions, if that's what you're referring to.

Besides one cannot be criminally convicted unless they go through the due process according to the laws.

In this case According to the immigration laws to be more precise.
Thrust · 56-60, M
@Charity yes it does. One is entltled to due process only when faced with a criminal conviction.

Your existence here without legal status is a violation by your mere presence. Stop lying
jehova · 31-35, M
Laws dont matter for\to DJT. The u.s. needs low cost labor in order to maximize capital gain, GDP, profit, and productivity\exploitation. To maximize profit at lowest possible expense per hour of labor.
Given the wealth based nature of the enforcement of laws (legal standards), no the law does not matter (if a person has enough $$) the money matters not the law.
The "issue" is that that now obvious truth also contradicts the alleged "promise" of a "free and fair" democratic state.
Nothing is free. opportunity is now recognized as being wealth (money) based!
The law doesn't matter so long as you are rich, established, and typically over age 60 and\or white male, which often\usually, involved exploitation of labor.
Therefore i support the protests which are necessary overdue and entirely unavoidable now (could have been, but weren't). Indeed DJT has called them into being and encouraged this happening. As such, "Off with Elon's and his head!"
Overthrow the oligarchs lets free the people and redisperse their wealth!
Set up the stocks! And hurl refuse at the old man (men)
whowasthatmaskedman · 70-79, M
@jehova Yep.. Nice little place. I am sure they could use the growth and employment a growth spurt like a big courthouse and publicity would bring..😷
DogMan · 61-69, M
@jehova We all support peaceful protests, but why are people looting and burning hundreds of cars and businesses
in the cities they love? Why are they keeping people from going to work, school, etc..? Why are they throwing bricks
through innocent peoples windshields?
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Steve42 · 56-60, M
@sstronaut I absolutely agree there are stupid laws. However, the method of changing them is through the legislature, not burning cars in the street.
@Steve42 Meh, legislation has seemed to do nothing in recent years and decades, just more and more and more sitting on their hands or throwing red meat at their base and not actually doing their job.

I mean, I totally agree with you in principle, but what happened when legislators stop trying to use legislation and just simply sit on their hands?

Congress has seemingly stopped working... what part of their job have they actually been doing? Certainly not the tariff part, not passing the laws part, as basically almost everything has been an executive order.

I agree with you that damaging things is not the answer.

But a President that is consistently doing illegal things is also not the answer.

And a legislation that's refusing to do their job also isn't the answer.

Everyone needs to do their job properly, and usually you would expect that to start at the top. But that's not going to happen right now.

The people should not be causing damage, but they don't know how else to express their frustrations of the system not working properly in their opinion.
You don’t understand. What makes this different is that Trump has revoked programs that allowed people legal status. So imagine that you’re living in a country legally, and have been for years, maybe even decades. A new president is elected, and all of a sudden, with an EO, that legal status is taken away.
That’s why even some people who voted for Trump are losing spouses and family members to ICE—I like to think they wouldn’t have been stupid enough to vote for him knowing he’d deport their loved ones !
😳
whowasthatmaskedman · 70-79, M
@bijouxbroussard Clearly people want this.. Its not like he made any secret of it in his campaign. And Stephen Millers agenda was quite public, written down on a web site.. So American voters are to blame..😷
@whowasthatmaskedman The insidiousness of this is that Trump has always tapped into the bigotry that runs through this country’s core. What makes your neighbor "other". By convincing enough people that immigrants were the reason for higher costs rather than a recent pandemic, he’s gotten the country to implode.
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basilfawlty89 · 36-40, M
Undocumented immigration is a civil case, not a criminal case. It's a misdemeanour, not a felony.

All people, regardless of immigration status, have the right to Habeas Corpus under the Constitution of the United States of America.

All residents and citizens have the right to dissent and protest due to the First Amendment as found in the Bill of Rights.
basilfawlty89 · 36-40, M
@oldguy73 cool. And how will you know if it's a first or second attempt or for that matter if the person is there legally or not without Habeas Corpus?
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I am noticing that people have such different takes on this (including who is most severely breaking the law), probably in large part because we are getting our news from different sources. I posted about this today: https://similarworlds.com/city-state/los-angeles/5322132-Where-do-you-get-your-local-and-world-news ?
Northwest · M
Calling it riots, is a hyperbole. It's not really about immigration, it's about due process. Do you understand what that means?
Steve42 · 56-60, M
@samueltyler2 Right, so I asked the question.
GerOttman · 61-69, M
@Steve42 How'd that work out for you??
samueltyler2 · 80-89, M
@Steve42 and apparently did not pay any attention to the answers.
samueltyler2 · 80-89, M
It is not new, immigration has been a problem for decades. It is only that TACO seems to need some adversary to attack. The country needs a new immigration plan,, the last dates back to the Reagen years and needs work.
samueltyler2 · 80-89, M
@oldguy73 do you think that is funny?
@samueltyler2 The riots started before any troops went in .. thats not an attack, its the legal response to riots. We need to quit normalizing breaking the law because you are not happy in your situation in life.
samueltyler2 · 80-89, M
@BrandNewMan If you say so, prove it! The ICE people just simply came and scooped up random people who looked like immigrants to them, without any warrants or without any specific names. The LA Police felt fully capable of responding, the appearance of National Guard without being requested was in direct violation of statutes, and only served to escalate the situation. Violence, damaging property, setting fires is never okay, and the city has arrested hundreds of people caught doing such. Have you ever heard of Kent State and what happened there. If you do not understand history, you will only see the worst of history repeating itself!

In case you forgot or never learned:
On May 4, 1970, the Ohio National Guard fired on Kent State University students protesting the Vietnam War and the invasion of Cambodia, resulting in the deaths of four students and injuries to nine others. This event, known as the Kent State Massacre, sparked widespread outrage and a nationwide student strike.
Elaboration:
Context:
The protests at Kent State and other campuses were fueled by growing anti-war sentiment and President Nixon's escalation of military involvement in Southeast Asia, including the invasion of Cambodia.
The Shooting:
Following a series of confrontations between protesters and the National Guard, the Guard fired on a crowd of students, killing four and wounding nine.
Impact:
The event triggered a wave of student strikes across the country, with hundreds of colleges and universities closing. It also highlighted the dangers of using armed forces to police civilian protests.
Legacy:
The Kent State shootings remain a controversial and painful part of American history, serving as a reminder of the importance of freedom of expression and the potential for violence when government forces are deployed against peaceful protests.
Bumbles · 51-55, M
I’m in LA. Without these immigrants the city would collapse.
samueltyler2 · 80-89, M
@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow and the country NEEDS them. What happened to the Senate immigration bill from the last session?
@samueltyler2 Yep. And there are tons of videos online of MAGA farmers (curiously all white) whining about how they have to do all the work on their farms now and likely won't be able to get everything done.
samueltyler2 · 80-89, M
@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow crops rotting on vines, and in warehouses. The farmers got caught both ways. Remember they lost their sales to USAID as well.
It's an entirely manufactured crisis. The Republicans really want to do martial law, so they're trying to get some footage of protesters attacking cops. That's why they keep showing footage of the same car on fire over and over from different angles.
Ferise1 · 46-50, M
@BohemianBabe I mean the second half obviously
samueltyler2 · 80-89, M
@BohemianBabe what, be serious Jewish propaganda? That is not what i need to here from you.
@Ferise1 Ah, so you like White Supremacy, but oppose it because you believe in fairness, but you like American History X, even though half is Jewish propaganda.
Tahitiangrandma · 70-79, FVIP
Nothing completely disgusting and then even worse doing this to protect criminals and terrorists and child diddlers etc just disgusting. I came to America from Tahiti legally back in the late 80's early 90's did everything right paid everything I was supposed to. And have followed laws and rules since it's actually not that hard
akindheart · 61-69, F
we had a former president who opened the border to over 13 million illegals including criminals. we do not know where these people are. they are bankrupting our system and taking over neighborhoods not to mention illegal activities. we have had enough paying for them
whowasthatmaskedman · 70-79, M
@akindheart OK. Now if they are taking your neighbourhoods, you really SHOULD know exactly where they are. They are in your neighbourhoods. And how are you paying for them? Unless you are indulging in illegal activities? I really have trouble with the idea that these cangsters and drug lords would be hiding in fields picking cabbages...😷
DogMan · 61-69, M
@whowasthatmaskedman Two different classes of immigrants. My good friend came here illegally in 1984 from
Nicaragua, a month before his 18th birthday as he was going to be forced into the Sandinista army. He worked in
the fields while learning English. He applied for the proper paperwork, and became a legal citizen. I am on the
side of people like him. He is a good man. My other good friend immigrated to the US in 1972 legally. He is
far more anti illegal immigrant than I am. Both are good men, with good hard working family members.
akindheart · 61-69, F
@whowasthatmaskedman believe me, i am the only white family on the whole block. I have the entire United Nations living next to me. the family next door is harboring a criminal. the illegals can't live in Florida due to the cost of living here. a huge percentage of them are on some type of government subsidies. THAT is how i pay for them. drugs are rampant too...
DogMan · 61-69, M
What I don't understand is, why are the people flying flags of the horrible countries they had to leave?
and burning the flags of the country they want to live in?
DogMan · 61-69, M
@samueltyler2 OK, but we were told they were seeking asylum. You can't seek asylum just because you need to
make more money, I don't think. I really don't blame people for wanting a better life, but there are rules and laws
that need to be followed to do it right.
samueltyler2 · 80-89, M
@DogMan Yes, some were seeking asylum, but not from their governments, at least probably not those protesting, they were threatened by gangs, etc. Anyway, why would one or two people raising a flag allow you to generalize about others?
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It's page 4 out of the leftist playbook. Disruption, cause chaos, incite violence, all while claiming you're just peacefully protesting. When pushed, blame your enemy for your criminal behavior.
@BizSuitStacy This is the the most truthful statement in this thread.
walabby · M
Trump is deliberately antagonizing the populace to protest, preferably riot, so that he can declare martial law and cancel the midterms. Currently the GOP would probably lose majority in both houses leaving Trump open to impeachment and possibly even dismissal, then, jail.
Steve42 · 56-60, M
@walabby I don't disagree. As a veteran in both the Army and the National Guard I'm really not comfortable with deploying them against our own citizens. Reminds me of the early 70's and the anti war protests on college campuses. Trump does have the authority to do that, but you are right it seems like is is provoking them. Kinda surprised about the curfew imposed by the Mayor to further antagonize.
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Elessar · 26-30, M
Reichstag fire
@Elessar Yup. Manufacture a crisis, then use it as an excuse to crack down.
YoMomma · 41-45
I think they need bigger nets to catch them all
MasterLee · 56-60, M
Yes insurrectionists need to feel the full force of the law.
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Steve42 · 56-60, M
@basilfawlty89 So it was the Spanish that the natives initially lost the land to?
@Steve42 capitalists. Not the Spanish public, investors. So denial and unknowing now! Whew! That's unknown.
Ferise1 · 46-50, M
@basilfawlty89 science is fashion and politics. There are different races definitely.
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@jshm2 What laws supposedly broken now?
The USA denied access to political representation for all leftists, and crushed socialism. Let them work to make war without socialism. The huge death rate shows this to be a Final Solution.
Except it is not about doing anything legally. At this point anyone claiming otherwise is dishonest.
basilfawlty89 · 36-40, M
@Steve42 what about US pharmaceutical companies that were to blame for the opioid crisis with drugs like Oxycontin, which is basically heroin in pill form?

What about US gun runners trading military grade firearms with cartels for drugs?
@basilfawlty89 Yep. And all they got was a small fine for it.
Steve42 · 56-60, M
@basilfawlty89 You happen to be speaking to a person who's pancreas was killed by drug companies who hid their research showing their drug did exactly that and was approved by the FDA as a result. No sympathy here for the drug companies.
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@Steve42 only if you ignore the context was there an initial attack by Palestine. Americans are really dangerous because they'll but any story if it justified their brutality! Show everyone how you are okay with your violence! Louder
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Steve42 · 56-60, M
@basilfawlty89 I agree, in large to what you are saying. However, not here to ask about that situation, focusing on the US protests/riots.

 
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