Struggles & Identity > Life

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Can someone explain the benefits of outlawing abortion?

In the 49 years Roe v. Wade was in place, the crime rate in the U.S. plummeted, the overall standard of living went up, more people were educated, technology advanced, and women and minorities enjoyed greater equality. The U.S. also became the sole superpower. You can argue that none of these were related to abortion, but that suggests abortion has no effect on anything. Some of the negative outcomes of outlawing abortion could be:

Increase in the maternal death rate for women who needed abortions for their own health-related reasons
Increase in the infant death rate for children with genetic defects who otherwise would have been aborted
increase in abandoned children and "dumpster babies"
Increase in poverty and child abuse of unwanted children
Growth of a black market in abortion, from "back alley" clinics, drug dealers selling abortion pills, and legitimate doctors performing abortions for their patients
Lower birth rates as more women opt for sterilization out of fear that they won't be able to have an abortion if they need one

So what are the benefits? I'm not looking for abstract platitudes like "increased respect for life" or other vague pronouncements. Abortion is illegal in Guatemala, but I wouldn't point to that country as one where life is respected. I'm asking for specific, concrete benefits. This may be difficult as countries where abortion is illegal tend to have less individual liberty and prosperity than countries where it's legal or at least easily accessible (for example, abortion is illegal in Malta, but Maltese women have an abortion rate similar to other EU countries because they simply go to Italy for their abortions).

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bijouxbroussard · F

There are no benefits. It’s simply hypocrisy from people who want to control women’s sexuality and reproductive options. If they actually cared about children they would also insist upon:

Free comprehensive prenatal care so fewer mothers would die bringing these children into the world

Programs like free school lunches and Head Start classes for these children

Strict gun control laws that would stop desperately loved and wanted children from continuing to be victims of gun violence

The people who would ban abortions even in the cases of pregnant children due to rape and incest don’t support any of that. They don’t give a damn about children. And they certainly don’t care about the lives of girls or women.

Adeptlinguist · M

@bijouxbroussard 100%

LeopoldBloom · M

@bijouxbroussard Exactly. They don't even GAF about fetuses. None of the new abortion restrictions include things like free prenatal care or paid work leave for prenatal visits.

missyann · 56-60

It will save millions of human lives. Pro life advocates. Don’t want to see one woman die with complications from pregnancy. Although they are so rare that they are almost never today Doctors in every state in the country know that it is legal to treat life-threatening emergencies with using any means they need to. Yes , occasionally a woman dies in childbirth, even when she has had an uneventful wanted pregnancy. Example from an aneurysm.

Oh, I admit that pro life advocates must do more to ensure protection for women in the workplace and public assistance. When it comes to public assistance, yes the government should cover one unplanned pregnancy but a woman knows how pregnancy occurs and the taxpayers shouldn’t be forced to cover multiple pregnancies. If a woman cannot afford to raise a child, there is adoption and there is help with anything a woman and a family needs.

Rape and incest accounts for less than 0.05% of abortions performed in the US. Pro life and pro abortion need to stand together to ensure that the men who rape get the harshest punishment.. I believe they need to be medically castrated and put in the highest security woman’s prison. But we cannot support punishing the innocent baby, who had nothing to do with the way it was conceived, and that baby is no different than a baby conceived in love, and is wanted. It is no less human. The woman who was raped has the opportunity to heal but once ab innocent life is ended, it cannot be brought back.

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missyann · 56-60

@LordShadowfire Before I start looking these up. Are they complete with Dr. statements ? If there is alternative treatments, then abortion is not required

No, I personally don’t think it’s happening, the way you are saying it is,. I don’t doubt the women’s condition. I just doubt that abortion was the only option but if you can prove me wrong, I will admit it

missyann · 56-60

@LordShadowfire Can you actually tell me that every OB/GYN and surgeon who had the right to practice at these hospitals denied these women treatment ?

You are pretending that some of these women and doctors (not all ) aren’t playing the victim because they are pro abortion.

There are always instances when a woman has a condition that requires immediate treatment but there is never a need to intentionally and deliberately kill an innocent human life by ripping it apart, or suctioning it out, while still alive, to save the mother, even when the baby cannot survive doctors can treat that baby with dignity and respect by not killing it before they remove it

LeopoldBloom · M

@missyann Fortunately, we lived in California, where abortion is a protected right, so no, the police weren't called because it wouldn't have mattered if this had been a spontaneous miscarriage or an intentional abortion. If this had happened recently and we lived in Texas, it might have been a different story. My wife is pro-life, by the way, in that she would never have an abortion herself, but she doesn't presume to tell other women how to handle this very important decision, so I guess that makes her pro-choice even though she doesn't describe herself that way.

Ontheroad · M

They can't... this isn't about truth, logic or anything other than power.

EPreject · 36-40, F

IDK why its hard for ppl to understand that abortion isnt being outlawed, its being left at the hands of the state. The ppl choose what rules and regulations they want to approve surrounding that law/right.

Further more i think the conversation that should really be had should be had by women and be honest about how abortion is abused.

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LordShadowfire · 46-50, M

@EPreject You never answered my question. What is a recipet?

bijouxbroussard · F

@ninalanyon It’s also why they had "escaped slave" laws allowing hired catchers to go into states where slavery was illegal, ostensibly to retrieve the "property" of slaveowners in states where it was legal. More than occasionally, freeborn people were caught up in those nets and used to compensate slavers.

The further irony of states like Texas is, they’ve been notorious for demanding special considerations in the name of "states rights" while proving that they have no concerns about the rights of other states.

CestManan · 46-50, F

@LordShadowfire

What is a recipet

That is what low class women call it when they have proof of an interaction on their phone or other device.

The same type of women who NEED to have their abortion rights protected because they do NOT need to be pushing out more burdens on the tax payers.

I think though that people who are against abortion are probably imagining that is is higher class women going to the clinic.

But no, probably more often than not, it's the ones in "depressed" areas. So they want to abort. Partially cause the "baby daddy" said it wasn't his kid. And she has a recipet of him saying that. 😄

Diotrephes · 70-79, M

The abortion ban is being pushed in America by Catholic fanatics. Look at the stated religions of the Govenors in the States where abortion bans are being pushed.

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LeopoldBloom · M

@missyann He did give the chapter and verse, if you own a Bible you can look it up.

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BohemianBabe · M

Conservatism is about making the workers as poor as possible. Forcing someone to have a child that they're not able to care for will make them poorer. It's as simple as that.

Handfull1 · 61-69, F

@BohemianBabe generally, no one will take care of these babies once they’re born. Conservatives want less government unless it suits their agenda. Pro life when it’s convenient!

BohemianBabe · M

@Handfull1 One of the biggest accusations of hypocrisy we hear in America is that the Right cares about babies in the womb, but not starving children living in poverty. But when you understand Conservatism, it's not hypocritical at all. Conservatives don't actually believe abortion is murder. They're anti-choice because that's the stance that keeps people poor, just like cutting social programs keeps people poor. Perfectly consistent.

Roundandroundwego · 61-69

Of course. Women should live without sex unless they're married to a man with money who agrees to pay for the unnecessary human offspring that could result. It's not practical to do anything else under this regime.

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Roundandroundwego · 61-69

@Handfull1 who decides to bury the child rape allegations again for Choate? Group posting! So collegial.

Handfull1 · 61-69, F

@Roundandroundwego I have no idea. Never heard about it until now.

Roundandroundwego · 61-69

@Handfull1 course not. But teams will post until the fact that Choate apologized repeatedly for raping the kids disappears vertically. Always. Everywhere they don't say Amherst is a rape college. Everywhere- and you still don't know anything about it - right? Because me talking is just another of the thousand kids who talked.

Puppycat23 · F

There are none. I suspect more women in states where abortion is considered a homicide will be spending time in prison for a miscarriage while the father takes care of the kids, destroying the nuclear family that conservatives want.

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missyann · 56-60

@LeopoldBloom You blame Donald Trump. I applaud him for being the only president to have a pro-life platform and actually work and did something about it.

I’m not sure how many times I have to say this, but a doctor is trained to know the difference between a condition that’s life-threatening and one that is not. And every state in the country allows for exceptions for a mothers life and that is never going to change.. no dr. ever needs to intentionally and deliberately kill an unborn life lto save the mother even in cases when the doctors knew the baby may not survive. What is the problem with trying to save both lives ? Why do you think that it is an it is a medical necessity to intentionally and deliberately kill an innocent unborn life, to save the mother? Or what kind of condition makes an abortion the only option ? no doctor should have any fear of treating a life-threatening emergency

99.9% of American soldiers do not seek out and intentionally and deliberately kill innocent children just to kill them yes tragically some are killed. Usually because their country has no respect for them, and use them as shields.. on the other hand, abortion only seeks out to intentionally and deliberately kill innocent unborn lives. No one is against abortion pills because they produce a bloody mess we are against them because they’re purpose is to intentionally and deliberately end human life

LeopoldBloom · M

@missyann Doctors are trained to know when a woman will die from giving birth, and should be allowed to do their jobs without fear of prison. It's not enough to just have an exception in the law.

What is a doctor supposed to do with an ectopic pregnancy? Saving the embryo isn't an option. It's attitudes like yours that are the problem. All you need is an overzealous DA who thinks ectopic pregnancies can be "reimplanted." This was literally proposed in Ohio.

https://consultqd.clevelandclinic.org/new-ohio-bill-falsely-suggests-that-reimplantation-of-ectopic-pregnancy-is-possible

Tell your legislators to add a provision in these bills that gives doctors an absolute and unquestionable exemption if you don't want them playing it safe and letting women die because they would rather have a malpractice suit than a prison sentence.

It doesn't matter if soldiers aren't deliberately killing kids; their deaths are inevitable. I could also say that no one has an abortion with the goal of killing the ZEF. The woman just wants to end the pregnancy, and the ZEF's death is just a side effect.

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Adeptlinguist · M

It satisfies the pseudoreligious.

There are no benefits.

CestManan · 46-50, F

I saw a skit on George Carlin where he says,
"How come people that are against abortion are the ones you would not want to F*** in the first place?"🤣

missyann · 56-60

@CestManan Funny, I hear the exact opposite. Maybe social media is just showing the women at these protests that no one would want to ****

Elessar · 26-30, M

Absolutely none, not even for them. It's the perfect topic to use to rile up the religious base, but that you would never want to actually deliver because strategically it would get you absolutely zero gains (if anything you'll even lose voters, and in fact we've seen that happening big time in 2022) and only actually lose a campaign point.

But from the campaign strategists who ended up organizing a meeting at the Four Seasons Landscaping Company I guess you can't expect much lol

calicuz · 56-60, M

Everything is give and take in American politics whether we realize it or not, whether we want to admit it or not. The Abortion ruling was a "give" to the conservatives, so the question is, what will the "liberals" take?
We are living in a time where it appears that extremism is the norm, both left and right extremism seem to have all of the attention. I however disagree with this idea, but according to the main stream media, this would "appear" to be true. I personally believe that the majority of Americans are in the middle and want what the whole country wants, which is balance and sensible spending. So since the false narrative is that extremism rules, we have an extreme "win" by the right, so the next question is, what will the left "win?" Could it be that all dreaded "banning of guns?"
Those of us who see the world as it truly is, know that a banning of guns is in the future because to enter a one world government means to do away with the Constitution of the United States, because the Constitution doesn't just protect the "right to bare arms," it's what makes us free to challenge any ruling by the US Supreme Court or any State Supreme Court.

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calicuz · 56-60, M

@LeopoldBloom

Well, if we believe what we are being told in the main stream media, we ARE in an age of radicals, both left and right wing. Although I still believe the majority of the country is in the middle, we are just being left without a voice. The "squeaky wheel" is being ignored right now.

LeopoldBloom · M

@JustGoneNow In his Dobbs concurrence, Clarence Thomas explicitly said Griswold is next. They want to outlaw contraception despite the reassurances of people like Missyann that they don't.

LeopoldBloom · M

@calicuz The Overton Window has moved so far to the right, positions that in the past would have been centrist are "far left" and far right positions are fascist.

Diotrephes · 70-79, M

Who is gullible enough to believe this BS story? Dumb cops.

1-year-old boy dies in fall from third-floor hotel room window: ‘A tragic accident’
"A 1-year-old boy from Minnesota has died tragically after falling from a third-floor hotel room window in South Dakota, his family said.

Madden Hein succumbed to his injuries in the hospital on Monday, two days after plunging from the Club House Hotel & Suites in Sioux Falls, his parents, Kathryn and Alex Hein announced Tuesday.

Police are investigating Madden’s death, but Sioux Falls Police Department spokesman, Officer Sam Clemens, told the Minneapolis Star Tribune that there is “nothing to lead us to believe it was anything other than a tragic accident.”"
https://nypost.com/2024/04/18/us-news/tot-dies-in-fall-from-third-floor-hotel-room-window/

They are butchering the kid for body parts and got $69,000 in donations.

The kid was 1 year-old. He was able to wander around the room, walk up to the window, open it, and jump out without the parents noticing it.

As I've said, if the parents don't want and love the kid, they will abuse and/or kill it. Even an idiot cop should be able to see that the parents' story is BS by simply recreating the situation. What was the outside temperature? What time did it happen? Did the parents leave the window wide open and what were they doing when the kid flopped out of the window? If the window was closed how did a short 1 year-old open it?

CestManan · 46-50, F

@Diotrephes Most windows are a PITA to open even for grown-ups. Let alone an infant.
BTW are one year olds even capable of walking yet? Crawling sure but to walk?

This story might be completely fabricated anyways, like most of the bull on the web.

Diotrephes · 70-79, M

@CestManan

Most windows are a PITA to open even for grown-ups. Let alone an infant.
BTW are one year olds even capable of walking yet? Crawling sure but to walk?

This story might be completely fabricated anyways, like most of the bull on the web.

Maybe they got the idea from pootin, who loves to throw people out of windows. Did you notice the windows on the hotel? They don't appear to be user-friendly for one-year-olds.

edit link
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13319799/toddler-dies-falling-hotel-window-mother-breaks-silence.html

HumanEarth · 56-60, F

What going to stop people going back to using a coat hanger to do self abortions? Like they used to do when they outlawed it the last time.

What wrong with people having the freedom of choice? I guess some people don't believe in the constitution and peoples rights & freedoms of choice.

If they want to murder an unborn baby. Well that's their choice, their human choice as a human being.

Not the government to take their freedom away

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HumanEarth · 56-60, F

Why end abortions, people are still going to do it. With or without doctor support. Humans been doing it for over a millions years or how ever long humans been here on earth.

It will never end, so don't kid yourself.

missyann · 56-60

@HumanEarth No one should have the freedom to intentionally and deliberately end an innocent human life. is it right that we allow people in this country to be sent to prison for the exact same crime of ending an innocent human life? A woman shouldn’t have the freedom and the exclusive right to murder.

Abortion takes away the freedom and deprives the most vulnerable and innocent of human lives of life its self

I suspect that 99.9% of pro abortion would want justice if someone that they love was murdered by someone who’s defense was “ the government doesn’t have the right to take away my freedom to murder anyone that I want for whatever reason I want “

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missyann · 56-60

I hate using links to try to prove one way or another why are you think your position is right because these come from whichever side you’re on. Webs don’t use conservative links, and vice a versa But this one is the best one I found to explicitly explain my position concerning recent events surrounding the abortion debate that I had not actually read from this perspective

https://www.rehumanizeinal.org>pro life~provider~insight

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missyann · 56-60

@LordShadowfire I’ll take your word on this. I usually just try to use facts that are known to be true like science

LordShadowfire · 46-50, M

@missyann No. You don't. You reject things that are true. Just the other day, I proved to you that women who suffer miscarriages are being investigated by police in states where you've gotten your wish, and you were so desperate to find a way to deny it that you changed the subject.

LeopoldBloom · M

@missyann Nobody is saying that all women who need abortions to save their own life are being denied. I'm sure most of them receive the care they need. But the fact remains that the vagueness of the new laws in some states are creating a dangerous situation. Obviously, none of the women in this lawsuit died, but it's only a matter of time.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/group-of-women-sue-texas-over-abortion-laws-narrow-medical-exemptions

It's only a matter of time until a case goes viral in the US like the Savita Halappanavar case did in Ireland, and when that happens, the pro-life position will be completely discredited. That case, along with the waning influence of the Catholic Church due to the child sexual abuse scandals and the Magdalene Laundries, is responsible for voters in Ireland changing the constitution to legalize abortion. A bad enough case in the US could very well result in a constitutional amendment. Future historians will ironically mark the Dobbs decision as the beginning of the end of the pro-life movement.

jehova · 31-35, M

Morality and overpopulation are the only 'benefits' of outlawing abortion. In both cases its more fallacy and self-imposed perspective than anything.
But i have hundreds of offspring. So im not exactly one to talk. Not kidding either. Lol!

LeopoldBloom · M

@jehova Outlawing abortion is immoral.

jehova · 31-35, M

@LeopoldBloom i agree

RoguishEyes

What is really interesting is that so far all but one person commenting on this post are (?) male.
Are they really concerned about not being able to abort their fetus, or are they merely simping and pandering?

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LeopoldBloom · M

@missyann Legalizing abortion was a great decision and should have been done a decade earlier. It’s what’s responsible for the rising standard of living, the drop in violent crime, and the US becoming the sole world superpower. Dobbs was a horrible decision but will be responsible for a Democratic tsunami in November.

ninalanyon · 61-69, T

@LeopoldBloom

will be responsible for a Democratic tsunami in November.

I wouldn't bet much money on it.

Take a look at https://www.economist.com/interactive/us-2024-election/trump-biden-polls

missyann · 56-60

@LeopoldBloom Are you saying that the decline lane in violent crime was because these children were never born ?

Notanymore · 36-40, M

Someone possibly could (I myself cannot entirely describe my thoughts on the subject). The fact stands that the political us versus them aspect seems to be far to ingrained in your question for any other opinions or views to be accepted.

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Notanymore · 36-40, M

@Diotrephes I take it, you've never seen a baby chicken. And you possibly are clueless as to how meat production works.....after a short time, there is a baby chicken inside of that egg, it's undeniable. Much too small to process though.

Diotrephes · 70-79, M

@Notanymore

I take it, you've never seen a baby chicken. And you possibly are clueless as to how meat production works.....after a short time, there is a baby chicken inside of that egg, it's undeniable. Much too small to process though.

If people were hatched from egg shells like birds, do you think people would cook and eat them like chicken eggs?

Notanymore · 36-40, M

@Diotrephes if little Froggy's had wings, would they bump their asses on the ground when they hopped?

Diotrephes · 70-79, M

This is what happens when parents don't love and want kids =
Evil Texas stepmother sobs uncontrollably during sentencing for starving death of 4-year-old boy
https://nypost.com/2024/04/20/us-news/miranda-casarez-sentenced-to-25-years-for-starving-stepson-to-death/

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Diotrephes · 70-79, M

@LeopoldBloom That is a sad story about the Russian kid but sometimes things are just beyond one's control despite our best intention to do right.

LeopoldBloom · M

@Diotrephes Of course, many people adopt kids and it works out just fine.

Diotrephes · 70-79, M

@LeopoldBloom

Of course, many people adopt kids and it works out just fine.

That may be true for some people but it hasn't been my observation.

AthrillatheHunt · 51-55, M

I see no benefit to outlawing abortion. In fact , I lost 3 bets when the Supreme Court reversed it. I swore it would never happen .