Can someone explain the benefits of outlawing abortion?

In the 49 years Roe v. Wade was in place, the crime rate in the U.S. plummeted, the overall standard of living went up, more people were educated, technology advanced, and women and minorities enjoyed greater equality. The U.S. also became the sole superpower. You can argue that none of these were related to abortion, but that suggests abortion has no effect on anything. Some of the negative outcomes of outlawing abortion could be:

Increase in the maternal death rate for women who needed abortions for their own health-related reasons
Increase in the infant death rate for children with genetic defects who otherwise would have been aborted
increase in abandoned children and "dumpster babies"
Increase in poverty and child abuse of unwanted children
Growth of a black market in abortion, from "back alley" clinics, drug dealers selling abortion pills, and legitimate doctors performing abortions for their patients
Lower birth rates as more women opt for sterilization out of fear that they won't be able to have an abortion if they need one

So what are the benefits? I'm not looking for abstract platitudes like "increased respect for life" or other vague pronouncements. Abortion is illegal in Guatemala, but I wouldn't point to that country as one where life is respected. I'm asking for specific, concrete benefits. This may be difficult as countries where abortion is illegal tend to have less individual liberty and prosperity than countries where it's legal or at least easily accessible (for example, abortion is illegal in Malta, but Maltese women have an abortion rate similar to other EU countries because they simply go to Italy for their abortions).

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Diotrephes · 70-79, M

This is what happens when parents don't love and want kids =
Evil Texas stepmother sobs uncontrollably during sentencing for starving death of 4-year-old boy
https://nypost.com/2024/04/20/us-news/miranda-casarez-sentenced-to-25-years-for-starving-stepson-to-death/

LeopoldBloom · M

@Diotrephes If it was her stepson, maybe she shouldn't have taken up with a man who had kids if she didn't want to deal with them. I mean, I have to blame her for this, not the POS politicians who are outlawing abortion. If the kid was 4 years old, his mom had him when abortion was legal, so she wanted him.

The fairy tales about wicked stepmothers are based on reality. I've heard that young boys are more likely to be murdered by their stepfather than by a random person.

missyann · 56-60

@Diotrephes Her excuse was emotional and sexual abuse, which is always what women use when they’re accused and convicted of a crime and or under the influence of drugs,( not that this one was )not because the child wasn’t wanted. and the woman could not get an abortion.. I’m not saying there aren’t those cases, but I have never heard of one for the reason you are saying

I would like you to give me examples of parents who kill their children because they couldn’t get an abortion and didn’t love their children. How many are there? How many children are killed and tortured by parents who wanted them ? You sound absolutely ridiculous to use this excuse to justify intentionally and deliberately killing an unborn human life.. at least think about it, and come up with a different better justification

Diotrephes · 70-79, M

@missyann We see the issue from different perspectives. It's possible that we might change our views over time but right now, it seems that we are ot interested in doing that. So, let's be happy in our own silos.

Diotrephes · 70-79, M

@LeopoldBloom

If it was her stepson, maybe she shouldn't have taken up with a man who had kids if she didn't want to deal with them. I mean, I have to blame her for this, not the POS politicians who are outlawing abortion. If the kid was 4 years old, his mom had him when abortion was legal, so she wanted him.

The fairy tales about wicked stepmothers are based on reality. I've heard that young boys are more likely to be murdered by their stepfather than by a random person.

The issue of stepkids is complex.

Sometimes the mother will deliberately hook up with a guy who will abuse or even kill the kid. Sometimes the father will seek out a wman who will do the same to his kid. In most cases everyone treats each other with respect and no one is deliberately harmed.

missyann · 56-60

@Diotrephes Omg

LeopoldBloom · M

@Diotrephes A lot more attention needs to be paid to adoption. Often it's no different from human trafficking. I've heard of situations where Americans have adopted kids from Africa, and have been surprised when the kids talk about their parents. And then it turns out that the parents signed away their kids because they thought they were only going to the US for an education.

I've also heard of a scam where Russian women give up their kids for adoption, then show up a year later and tell the adoptive parents that the kid was kidnapped and they want him back...unless, of course, the parents buy her off.

And this doesn't even address adoption in the US where women who might have been able to raise their own kids end up losing them for lack of money. We're not talking orphans here. There are Native Americans my age who were removed from their families and adopted out. And then you have the religious adoption agencies that have closed down rather than comply with civil rights laws and adopt kids out to same-sex couples. Ironically, it's more likely for gay couples to adopt older, disabled, or mixed-race kids that rich white couples don't want.

Not to say that all adoption is bad, but I can see why a woman might choose abortion over subjecting a child to this system. Especially if she was adopted or grew up in foster care and had a bad experience herself.

Diotrephes · 70-79, M

@LeopoldBloom

A lot more attention needs to be paid to adoption. Often it's no different from human trafficking. I've heard of situations where Americans have adopted kids from Africa, and have been surprised when the kids talk about their parents. And then it turns out that the parents signed away their kids because they thought they were only going to the US for an education.

Good comments. It's something that people may not think about. Adopting a new-born is risky because the kid may have all kinds of hidden problems that may not be apparent, such as various genetic disorders or mental problems. And then, when they become obvious, the adoptive parents will hate the kid because of the financial, mental, and emotional probems that they will have to cope with instead of the perfect child that they had been expecting.

LeopoldBloom · M

@Diotrephes I've heard of situations where people adopt a kid, then end up having one the regular way later, and treat the second kid a lot better.

I know myself well enough that if my wife and I hadn't been able to have a bio kid, I wouldn't have wanted to adopt because there's no way I could have dealt with the inevitable issues of parenthood without thinking "why did I sign up for this." I remember a case a while back where these people adopted a kid from Russia, and he was such a little monster, they put him on a plane by himself and sent him back.

Diotrephes · 70-79, M

@LeopoldBloom That is a sad story about the Russian kid but sometimes things are just beyond one's control despite our best intention to do right.

LeopoldBloom · M

@Diotrephes Of course, many people adopt kids and it works out just fine.

Diotrephes · 70-79, M

@LeopoldBloom

Of course, many people adopt kids and it works out just fine.

That may be true for some people but it hasn't been my observation.