Struggles & Identity > Life

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Can someone explain the benefits of outlawing abortion?

In the 49 years Roe v. Wade was in place, the crime rate in the U.S. plummeted, the overall standard of living went up, more people were educated, technology advanced, and women and minorities enjoyed greater equality. The U.S. also became the sole superpower. You can argue that none of these were related to abortion, but that suggests abortion has no effect on anything. Some of the negative outcomes of outlawing abortion could be:

Increase in the maternal death rate for women who needed abortions for their own health-related reasons
Increase in the infant death rate for children with genetic defects who otherwise would have been aborted
increase in abandoned children and "dumpster babies"
Increase in poverty and child abuse of unwanted children
Growth of a black market in abortion, from "back alley" clinics, drug dealers selling abortion pills, and legitimate doctors performing abortions for their patients
Lower birth rates as more women opt for sterilization out of fear that they won't be able to have an abortion if they need one

So what are the benefits? I'm not looking for abstract platitudes like "increased respect for life" or other vague pronouncements. Abortion is illegal in Guatemala, but I wouldn't point to that country as one where life is respected. I'm asking for specific, concrete benefits. This may be difficult as countries where abortion is illegal tend to have less individual liberty and prosperity than countries where it's legal or at least easily accessible (for example, abortion is illegal in Malta, but Maltese women have an abortion rate similar to other EU countries because they simply go to Italy for their abortions).

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Diotrephes · 70-79, M

The abortion ban is being pushed in America by Catholic fanatics. Look at the stated religions of the Govenors in the States where abortion bans are being pushed.

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MartinII · 70-79, M

@Diotrephes Catholic fanatics? Or perhaps just Catholics.

Klingwood · 61-69, M

@Diotrephes they have given the states the right to do as they will with abortion which is where it should be.no one said abortions were illegal in the supreme court.all it says to me is more people don't want it then people thought therefore certain states have decided against it

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missyann · 56-60

@Diotrephes Catholic’s have always gotten the blame for being pro life.

Catholics have the most liberal pope in history who refuses to deny them communion and met with Biden and Jill, knowing that they support abortion . He has to publicly state that he is pro life, but that proves otherwise. He has publicly spoken against conservative, bishop and priest, and have ordered them to give communion

There is a division in the Catholic Church, and I can definitely see a breaking away

missyann · 56-60

@Diotrephes What about the democrat Catholics who support abortion I suppose they’re OK with you. Maybe we should only elect atheist since the word God has become evil

Handfull1 · 61-69, F

@missyann no man should be able to judge who can take communion or not. I’m happy the Pope is taking a stand.

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Diotrephes · 70-79, M

@missyann

Catholic’s have always gotten the blame for being pro life.

Catholics have the most liberal pope in history who refuses to deny them communion and met with Biden and Jill, knowing that they support abortion . He has to publicly state that he is pro life, but that proves otherwise. He has publicly spoken against conservative, bishop and priest, and have ordered them to give communion

There is a division in the Catholic Church, and I can definitely see a breaking away

The Christian doctrine as written in the Bible says that believers should kick bad believers to the curb.

1 Corinthians 5:9-13 (ERV) = "9 I wrote to you in my letter that you should not associate with people who sin sexually. 10 But I did not mean the people of this world. You would have to leave the world to get away from all the people who sin sexually, or who are greedy and cheat each other, or who worship idols. 11 I meant you must not associate with people who claim to be believers but continue to live in sin. Don’t even eat with a brother or sister who sins sexually, is greedy, worships idols, abuses others with insults, gets drunk, or cheats people.

12-13 It is not my business to judge those who are not part of the group of believers. God will judge them, but you must judge those who are part of your group. The Scriptures say, “Make the evil person leave your group.”

If that is the criteria, who do you say is right?

LeopoldBloom · M

@Diotrephes Catholics have a longer history of opposing abortion, but the main driver right now is Evangelical Christianity. It's interesting how these two groups hate each other (I routinely encounter Evangelical Christians who say Catholics aren't Christian at all, and vice versa), but they have cooperated in this area.

The modern anti-abortion movement started in the 1970s when people like Jerry Falwell pivoted from supporting segregation to opposing abortion and gay rights. This started not with Roe v. Wade, but the Green v. Kennedy decision from a few years earlier that ended federal funding of religious schools that weren't racially integrated. But by the end of the decade, segregation was politically toxic, and with the election of Ronald Reagan, the pivot to opposing abortion was complete.

missyann · 56-60

@Diotrephes Not opposed to individual freedoms. EVERY innocent individual deserves the right to not be intentionally and deliberately killed

Diotrephes · 70-79, M

@missyann

Not opposed to individual freedoms. EVERY innocent individual deserves the right to not be intentionally and deliberately killed

OK, how about completely free medical/dental care for all under 18 years old, 4 years of free college or trade school. If you support that then you can end abortion.

Klingwood · 61-69, M

@LeopoldBloom yes it's interesting that people that believe in God and the Bible all seem to believe abortion is the killing of a child odd isn't it

LeopoldBloom · M

@Klingwood Nothing in the Bible explicitly forbids abortion, so yes, it is odd that religious people are against it.

Actually, most Protestants were ambivalent on abortion until the 1970s when it became a political issue. Even the Puritans allowed abortion up to around 22 weeks, as they didn’t think the fetus was alive until its movements could be felt.

70% of Americans are Christians, and around the same percentage are pro-choice, so many religious people have to be pro-choice.

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missyann · 56-60

@Diotrephes They are pro life because they believe in science. They believe abortion is wrong, because the 10 Commandments say “ thou shall not kill.”
Intentionally and deliberately ending an innocent human life, is killing it.

We know it is human and it is alive because some thing that i isn’t alive cannot grow and if it isn’t alive there would be no reason to abort it

I suspect that even pro abortion would consider at murder if someone came into their home, and killed one of their innocent children for no reason other than they were born.

Diotrephes · 70-79, M

@missyann

They are pro life because they believe in science. They believe abortion is wrong, because the 10 Commandments say “ thou shall not kill.”
Intentionally and deliberately ending an innocent human life, is killing it.

We know it is human and it is alive because some thing that i isn’t alive cannot grow and if it isn’t alive there would be no reason to abort it

I suspect that even pro abortion would consider at murder if someone came into their home, and killed one of their innocent children for no reason other than they were born.

It's great to express our opinions but please learn what the damn Ten Commandments are before you use them as a source.

The comandment Exodus 20:13 "Thou shall not murder (kill)" is not one of the real Ten Commandments. The commandments in Exodus chapter 20 are not the Ten Commandments. The real Ten Commandments are found in Exodus 34:11-28 and all of the stories in the Old and New Testaments are based on one or more of them. Read the fairytale.

As I've said before, if parents don't want and love their kids, they will abuse them and most likely kill them. That is universal human nature. So, if you, as a woman, don't want to have an abortion then don't have one. Girls usually are born with a million eggs so you can have million babies if that's what you want. But you have zero right to tell another women that she can't have an abortion because it conflicts with your alleged religious beliefs (whch you are clueless about).

missyann · 56-60

@Diotrephes I’m not a biblical scholar and don’t claim to be but the Ten Commandments are written in Exodus 20:1-17 20:13 does specifically say that the 6th commandment says“ thou shall not murder. A lot that are posted in churches and places where they are allowed do in fact say “ thou shall not kill “.

The need to personally attack someone’s character shows that you have no reply to what I have said so you actually said because I said kill instead of murder that I don’t know what I’m talking about.. Good for you !!!!

There are 12 passages that warn not to associate with the evil. I believe that it is evil to Compromise with abortion which try’s to justify deliberately and intentionally ending an innocent life. Since you mentioned Exodus there are 2. 23:2, 23:33. Say all you want that the Bible is a fairytale . that doesn’t make it true

It is ridiculous to say that parents who don’t want their children will kill them to justify abortion. Most parents love their children whether they were wanted when the woman first got pregnant, Parents who wanted their children torture and kill their children too. If a woman doesn’t want her child, she can give it up for adoption.. there are at the very least 36 parents who are waiting to adopt?.

I recently met a woman who was strongly pro abortion at a pro life event and had started going to Washington to protest Roe v. Wade being overturned and found out her best friend was conceived in rape. and changed her mind immediately, because she realized that she was worthy of life, and every child no matter how they were conceived is worthy of life.

missyann · 56-60

@Handfull1 Protecting all human life has always been the Catholic doctrine. And. No one is supposed to be permitted to receive communion who has committed a mortal sin.. supporting the intentional, deliberate, killing of innocent human has always been considered a a sin.

I realize that there have always been Catholics who supported abortion rights, but they certainly weren’t out celebrating it. Biden is not a devout Catholic and neither is the pope.. some of us are wondering if the pope isn’t the antichrist?

missyann · 56-60

@Diotrephes There is “ righteous “ judgement. You judge the act not the person. I have never and would never say that a woman or anyone who supports abortion is going to hell, that is God’s’s judgment. He alone knows what is in peoples hearts..

Intentionally and deliberately ending an innocent human life is murder. Therefore, I believe that it is evil to support abortion. There are people in prison for that exact same offense I am certain that they have their reason. Why should a Woman have the right to murder ???

Science tells us that it is human. We know that it’s alive and left in its natural home, will develop to birth in most cases. Religion tells us that it is a sin to intentionally and deliberately end a human life.. and science and medical technology is what tells us and has showed us a baby developing from conception to birth. No one can say that these lives are not alive and developing.

missyann · 56-60

@Diotrephes Just because someone doesn’t support “every “ government assistance program doesn’t mean it’s okay to intentionally and deliberately kill a baby who is going to born into poverty. Do we give people the death penalty for being poor?? With hard work It is possible to overcome poverty without getting everything free. Getting everything free makes it harder to overcome.

I most definitely support public assistance for 2 years for one unplanned pregnancy but she knows how it happened there is no reason why the taxpayer should be forced to pay for another pregnancy especially multiple pregnancies. This isn’t meant to be for life. I also support assistance for a family who has fallen on hard times for 2 years. 2 years is enough time to find a job. President Johnson destroyed the Medicaid program when he said that there could not be a father in the home for a woman to receive it.

No I don’t support fee collage. I do support low interest loans that will never change and capping the amount a college can charge. If a child wants a college education they should bust their ass to get a scholarship. How many kids do you think would give two years of their life in the military to receive free college ? I’m guessing not many.

Diotrephes · 70-79, M

@missyann That attitude is so typical. You want to force everyone to live by your rules so that they will have to suffer financially, emotionally, mentally, and physically while you sit back with a smug grin on your mug.

Oh well, untold numbers of kids will be abused and kill and be killed because their parents never wanted them and don't love them. But they were alive which makes you happy even if they have no resources and are starving.

missyann · 56-60

@Diotrephes How can you say that you know parents are going to kill their child because they may not want them at time a woman finds out that she’s pregnant ? How many cases do you know of when children have been killed because the mother couldn’t get an abortion? Why can’t parents choose adoption if they don’t want the child? That is the humane choice. Why does she have to have her baby ripped apart and sectioned out ?

Everyone has a right and a responsibility to vote for or against issues they think it’s bad for society. What right do you have to push your belief that it is OK to kill innocent human lives? If this is what you believe, then you must believe that those in prison have been convicted of the exact same crime should be released

As I have said before many times, science and medical technology tells me that from the moment of conception, a human life comes into existence with its own DNA composition, the same DNA it will carry throughout its life. Religion tells me that it is wrong to intentionally and do it, but we kill an innocent human life.. and there is no one more innocent than a baby in its mothers womb

Diotrephes · 70-79, M

@missyann

Religion tells me that it is wrong to intentionally and do it, but we kill an innocent human life.

Which religion tells you that?

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