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spjennifer · 56-60, T
I've more often than not seen it used by HR people in order to satisfy some corporate edict. I deal with people in the business world every day and have never had anyone tell me in person, nor in an email what their "Pronouns" are, if they did, I'd probably laugh about it and get in trouble for that.
JimboSaturn · 51-55, M
@spjennifer It's very common at my work to include your pronouns in your e-mail signature.
spjennifer · 56-60, T
@JimboSaturn Really? ok well guess it depends where you work then too?

FreeSpirit1 · 51-55, F
My job forbids it, names only ...the manager said." it's an office not a college campus"😄
JonUK31 · 36-40, M
@FreeSpirit1 I like your manager
ImpeccablyImperfect · 51-55, F
@FreeSpirit1 your manager sounds like a smart he/she
🤣🤣
Harmonium1923 · 51-55, M
I’m amazed at the tone of so many of these responses. Really, why do you all care if someone specifies their pronouns? Is it that different from specifying a preferred name so people know what to call you? I have a ton of clients and friends who do that for reasons unrelated to gender identity. I also have several business colleagues with Asian names who specify pronouns in their correspondence because it’s not clear to Americans from their names.

It seems like the most basic professional courtesy to respect someone’s wishes in how they want to be addressed, and why shouldn’t they specify it to make everyone’s lives easier? The amount of contempt on this issue is really troubling. If there were a manager in my organization who forbid people to put that on their emails, that manager wouldn’t be in a supervisory role for long. Management is about empowering people and treating them with respect, not bullying them.
SunshineGirl · 36-40, F
@MartinII That is good as well, another piece in the jigsaw 👍
SunshineGirl · 36-40, F
@Sharon The Germans mess up by qualifying this with "Herr Doktor", etc 😩
Sharon · F
@SunshineGirl They don't stop at one "doktor" either. If a person has more than one doctorate, they say "doktor" for each one - e.g. "Frau Doktor Doktor...". They like their titles.
Nope. Still regarded as nonsense by most people.
Some employers require this. Even if it’s voluntary, by adding her pronouns, Alison is demonstrating her solidarity with trans people even if her gender is obvious.
@MartinII It's from the belief that if trans people have to indicate their pronouns, cis people should do the same thing.
Jenny1234 · 51-55, F
@LeopoldBloom then it should be limited to those who feel the need to share their pronouns.
@Jenny1234 It's not mandatory.
JoyfulSilence · 46-50, M
I like nouns.

I am pro noun.
BittersweetPotato · 31-35, F
I do have them next to my name. They are not manually addded by me in the email signature, but are added by IT for everyone next to the name and email address, based on the info provided when we joined. Some people opt not to provide them though, I did. Many people don't recognize that my name is that of a female!
BittersweetPotato · 31-35, F
@SunshineGirl No idea what you are talking about. Someone mistaking my name for a male name because my name is not a typical western name is something, and HR filling out YOUR personal information on your behalf without your consent is something COMPLETELY different!! It opens the organization to legal exposure. I don't think you will ever find any company filling out personal info like gender on behalf of employees based on assumptions, unless they are completely dumb. Such info need to be provided by you and only you, and after you provide it you also attest to accuracy and to giving the company the right to use or share it
SunshineGirl · 36-40, F
@BittersweetPotato Excuse me for my error. I am only human.
BittersweetPotato · 31-35, F
@SunshineGirl I understand. Humans are limited. I am a potato 🥔.
easterniowegin · 51-55, M
I work for a very woke, large company. They publish an email signature template that includes pronouns. They also have a section in their HR online employee profile page where you can declare pronouns.

I refuse to participate in such ridiculousness.
@easterniowegin ditto on all counts. So far they have [i]encouraged[/i] cis folk to include pronouns, but haven't yet required it. I'm not looking forward to when they do
easterniowegin · 51-55, M
@ImperialAerosolKidFromEP
Woke companies become a toxic environment. Luckily, I work remotely.
I just want to keep my head down until retirement age, but it's like they keep making unrelated demands that I know are throwing up red flags to the dei crowd.
we need to reopen the asylums.
@chrisCA this is the best 🤓
Richard65 · M
@TheOneyouwerewarnedabout yes, we definitely need to reopen the asylum for you.
sladejr · 56-60, M
@Richard65

Wow! That was savage! 😖😳
One of my team got married.
So she changes from Miss H to Mrs F.
All happy so far?
But Mrs F wished to be called Miss H still professionally.
Still Happy?
That was OK until I inadvertently called Mrs F, MrsF in public.
An easy mistake to make . OK so far?
But Mrs F made a formal complaint about me calling her Mrs F in public.
But during the wait Mrs F decided to be Mrs F in public.
Clear? MrsF wanted to be called Mrs F.
So the complaint read, Mrs F ( known as MrsF ) complains that you called her Mrs F.
I think we have got there.

This is actually true.
@Sharon It makes me wonder... if it's like this for heterosexual marriages, how do we cope with gay marriages???

I mean, these men and women also have to decide what to do with their last names, too...

These days, I do see a lot of heterosexual couples choosing to hyphenate their names so that they can use both their maiden name and their married name together. Or they choose to use their maiden name professionally and their married name in their private lives.

I like that those options exist - especially given that some of them were options that I didn't know about or think of myself.
Sharon · F
@HootyTheNightOwl Some people seem to think that a woman is obligated to take her spouses name. Presumably, if Jane Doe married Josephine Bloggs, jane would become Jane Bloggs and Josephine would become Josephine Doe. But then, as Jane's spouse's surname was now Doe, she would have to become Jane Doe again and, for the same reason, Josephine would have to become Josephine Bloggs. Then... :)

Just pick a name, any name.
ViciDraco · 36-40, M
@HootyTheNightOwl I was on a team of 18 people once. We had 6 Daniels, 5 Jasons, a Sean and a Shawn.

My name is fortunately much more rare. There's like one other person at this office location of about 800 people, and even that surprised me.
Some people have a name that works for both genders like Ashley or Morgan. I’ve met female Dylan’s and Charlie’s.
JimboSaturn · 51-55, M
@MorbidCynic Really? lol. Funny because my work is very corporate, and we still don't use Mr. and Ms.
JimboSaturn · 51-55, M
@JimboSaturn Not within the company, I'm sure people who deal externally may use it.
JimboSaturn · 51-55, M
@MorbidCynic I just sent an email to a person named Adebanke, I have absolutely no idea of the gender :P
SunshineGirl · 36-40, F
I used to have to disguise my gender in written communication because of the misogynistic culture in my profession. These days, now my career is more secure, I am happy to broadcast it widely, but not on my email signature . . it's quite cluttered enough with the logos, internet links, and 'mission statement' that I am obliged to carry and which obscure minor details such as my phone number 🙄
Harmonium1923 · 51-55, M
I notice that a majority of the people on this thread who say that putting pronouns on email signatures is “virtue signaling” or “BS” or otherwise offensive—also happen to use a specific gender identifier in their own signatures for this very site. So unsurprisingly that choice is OK for them, just not for others.
MarkPaul · 26-30, M
@easterniowegin It's not really a left-hate or right-hate thing. It's just a crazy quirk during the early part of the 21st century, not very different from the way people in the last century fell victim to the disco craze.
CrazyMusicLover · 31-35
@Harmonium1923 Come on, all people I know that have come across it make fun of it and it's not simply because of a request to specify your pronouns but to specify your [b]preferred[/b] pronouns suggesting that the others are [b]obliged [/b] to use them in communication with them where people literally started demanding being referred to as "Your Majesty" and similar things.
onewithshoes · 22-25, F
Gender markers here are shown by [b]default[/b], so an obvious statement is made by those who block them from being shown.
whowasthatmaskedman · 70-79, M
Children are starving, people are dying, and others get precious about a pronoun in front of their name.. Some people just dont get it...😷
whowasthatmaskedman · 70-79, M
@LeopoldBloom Sort of making my case, which is, "What is the point?" Wanting to identify as a cat or a bedbug is just attention seeking...A cry for help...😷
@whowasthatmaskedman Nobody is identifying as a cat or a bedbug, regardless of what Ben Shapiro is telling you.

Conservatives tend to be uncomfortable with deviations from the expected, and trans people are definitely violating that. The "Androgynous Pat" series on SNL went to the core of that discomfort as people couldn't deal with a character whose gender wasn't clear.
whowasthatmaskedman · 70-79, M
@LeopoldBloom I did carry the matter to extremes for effect (and not a little irony) forgive me. I am not a prude about such matters. If a male or female want to swap nametags or genders its their business. Mazeltov! But with all the real problems on the world to get precious about this is sheer hubris from a bunch of self important whiners..😷
ArishMell · 70-79, M
I don't. Not in ordinary posts but a lot of forms do as for your title, many from a menu.

What I find more awkward is where someone uses a name originating in a language I don't know, such as an Asian one, without a title, because I don't know how to address the sender properly in return.

I want to be polite and treat them with respect but don't know if the person is a man or woman; and in some cultures the family name precedes the individual name.

(As in Chinese names: the present premier is Chairman Xi because Xi is his surname. I learnt that from a scientific paper headed with a brief note on the etiquette, because its authors were British and Chinese - opposite name orders).
SunshineGirl · 36-40, F
@ArishMell In the civil service we had a style manual which recommended the best way of addressing people from different cultures. It was really interesting. These days best practice is to write the whole name in full, which looks terrible and as though the reply has come from a machine (which may be the intention).
If it's a professional relationship, that would explain it. It's the latest woke thing to do in America these days.

The idea is to promote "inclusiveness" and address people in the way they want to be addressed - but as someone who is gendered other, it doesn't really float my boat. I'd rather be misgendered for a while and reveal what feels right for me when I'm comfortable than when some company boss tells me to.
onewithshoes · 22-25, F
Yes it's an indication of the stupidity of our times, but in fairness, one who was unfamiliar with the name in question might assume it were another silly instance of a family name (which the '-son' ending would normally imply) being used as a given name wherewith a child of either gender might have been saddled.
Wondering now whether things would be easier or harder or just different in a language whose first and second person pronouns were also gendered?
twistedrope · 26-30, M
I found two types of people who put pronouns in emails. One deals with mental health, the other is very upper management and probably doing something illegal.

So. You know. The first is genuinely an introduction into their life and I think the second is a smoke screen to look sensitive.

I use they whenever I can to refer to people in email to not misgender. Because it just creates less tension. Like pronouncing a name correctly.
GuiltyBiStander · 31-35, F
I don't.

I work for 4 different employers and it's not mandatory in 3 of those workplaces. The fourth gig is based on self employment, and I don't find it necessary because of the nature of the work.

My own feeling is that the way people address each other in any situation should always allow for respect and courtesy, and I don't find that all the pronoun signaling actually helps that.

But - I don't lose my fucking mind if somone else does.
MarkPaul · 26-30, M
Yeah, I have started seeing this crop up more and more. The weird thing is these people act like they are super-enlightened. I was in a grocery store over the weekend and the cashier had a name tag with her pronouns. I was like, "seriously... is that really necessary." I didn't say it out loud though.
sladejr · 56-60, M
@MarkPaul so he/she admitted they were completely androgynous and that needed to be on their person.

How enlightened 🤢
MarkPaul · 26-30, M
@sladejr Well, no. Her name tag identified her pronouns as "She/Her" as though she needed to alert the customers to the obvious and that it was necessary for everyone to know how "with it" she was. I suspect though it was a company directive as it was actually an embossed part of her name tag... it might not be her fault. But, still...
sladejr · 56-60, M
@MarkPaul probably. I'd never wear it
maskedbandit · 61-69, M
Just bring in the experts on this if you can find them. 🤨 😅
whowasthatmaskedman · 70-79, M
@maskedbandit Wait an hour. This place has got experts on everything......😷
Thevy29 · 41-45, M
Nope. Because I never care about gender in the professional compacity.
uncalled4 · 56-60, M
I don't possess that kind of narcissism. Guess I ought to get with the times.
uncalled4 · 56-60, M
@sladejr I'll consider it. What's the pay like?
sladejr · 56-60, M
@uncalled4 the cost? I think I remember $25k.

I told my sis-in-law I was getting that for my niece who's graduating HS
sladejr · 56-60, M
@uncalled4 Didn't mean to say you wanted to be Barbie. NTTAWWT
MartinII · 70-79, M
@Sharon Well yes, that’s certainly one way of doing it. Also, my understanding of the usage in French, German and Italian has always been that Madame/Mademoiselle Frau/Fraulein Signora/Signorina are principally distinctions by age rather than status, though I may be wrong.
@MartinII Indeed, in France, Mademoiselle is no longer a legal appellation , people tend to use it for children though, it's still an ingrained habit.
JimboSaturn · 51-55, M
No I find the whole pronoun thing silly.
SteelHands · 61-69, M
The deviousness of forced implication casts a shadow on what ought be and formerly was, confidently understood.

By shifting the benefit of doubt to treacherous deceivers, concealing genuine self, evading identification and confounding the perception of their victims.
MrsMONAKanful · 36-40, F
My pro nouns are she/ her
itsok · 31-35, F
Let’s take a deep breath
I don’t, but I’ve been asked on certain documents my "pronoun of preference". Even on medical questionnaires where I’ve already identified myself as female. It’s bizarre. 😳
@JonUK31 My friend jokes about adopting the pronoun "we", like royalty. 🤭
This comment is hidden. Show Comment
@JonUK31 Here, it depends on the doctor. The fact that they give options suggests some would be willing to go along.
CrazyMusicLover · 31-35
Considering that the lady in the ID department called me "my beautiful" while making my passport photo... I don't really know what is normal anymore. 😂
KatyO83 · 36-40, F
I do for work email I think most here (university) have it in their signature now.
MartinII · 70-79, M
@KatyO83 Out of interest, are the pronouns you specify different from those your name would suggest?
JonUK31 · 36-40, M
@MartinII That would be a bit silly given she has an obviously female name. Not many guys called Katy

It would maybe work for somebody with a gender neutral name like say Pat
MartinII · 70-79, M
@JonUK31 That’s my point. We have no idea what name “Katy083” might use at work.
jehova · 31-35, M
Legal;!im fairly confident its expressly illegal to require a pronoun. Maybe they dont care either. Fewer letters cheaper shirt.
I’ve only ever seen job titles under email signatures. I think only pertinent info like that should clutter up a business email.
My work seems to encourage it. I don't bother. I figure if people guess wrong I won't be wildly upset if I correct them.
Jenny1234 · 51-55, F
I do not but I’m seeing a few government offices I deal with regularly that have pronouns in their email
SteelHands · 61-69, M
She's just excited because she now knows what is a pronoun and nobody even knew what that was ten minutes ago.
I don't, some do. It's to satisfy ESG criteria and keep the alligators off a Corp's heels.
jehova · 31-35, M
Ive seen it below someones sign off
Ex.
Thanks,
Matt
He/his/him
But no u dont
Lol
Steve42 · 56-60, M
I think if it's stated like that, they are prolly trans.
MasterLee · 56-60, M
If I had to... Master/Sir/Your Highness works
The world is becoming ridiculous for sure.
Fullmetal · 46-50, M
It's a joke...my pronouns are rum and bourbon....
Dumbman · 36-40
My pronouns are they/was.
Gangstress · 41-45, F
It is a choice its not a legality
ViciDraco · 36-40, M
Why does it matter? It harms literally nobody and helps some others feel accepted. Such thin skin people have these days
Heshe, and Shehe
Alyosha · 31-35, M
No. There is no point.

 
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