Prematurely abandoning Bagram airport is a huge Biden error
Having one airport available make it easier to control for the Taliban and way worse for the poor Americans and Afghans that supported us still there.
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Oberon1 · 61-69, M
@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow
Wow.
Biden is not taking direction from the Taliban you half wit. But he knows who he is dealing with.
Yeah! I'm a half wit! 😆Wow.
PicturesOfABetterTomorrow · 41-45, M
@Oberon1 I give up. No point in trying to speak rationally with a religious zealot.
Bagram isn't equipped for civilian flights
There's probably no place in Afghanistan that's equipped for civilian flights at the moment. Commercial airliners lack anti-missile defenses, lack bullet proof panels to protect the crews and vital systems, lack self-sealing fuel tanks. It's not because of the airports, it's because of the airplanes.
That said, the US has 200+ C17s, 300+ C130s, 1,000+ transport helicopters. There's no lack of military airplanes. Add to that the French, the British, etc.
jackjjackson · M
Obviously citizens are nonnegotiable however Biden seems to be bailing on the “collaborators” kind of easily and quickly. @QuixoticSoul
QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
@jackjjackson Sounds like we're expecting to get about 50k out - we will see if Taliban can be incentivized to keep the flow going after we're officially out. If they piss us off too much, nothing preventing us from bombing some juicy concentrations of men and equipment once Americans are out of harm's way. Air strikes are easy enough for us to justify and carry out.
jackjjackson · M
It will be a trade off I suppose. Eventually we will tire of bombing them. Wonder what will be in drone range after? @QuixoticSoul
carpediem · M
Bagram, as I understand it, was the most secure place in the entire damned country. Here's one reason:
On Wednesday afternoon, at a joint press conference, Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Mark Milley were asked about the decision to evacuate from Karzai International instead of Bagram. Lloyd didn’t address the question. Milley’s answer was a mouthful, but the bottom line is that there weren’t enough troops.
“If we were to keep both Bagram and the embassy going,” Milley said, that would require “a significant number of military forces,” so “you had to collapse one or the other.”
Milley also said the generals “estimated that the risk” of going out of Bagram or Karzai International “was about the same,” but he also acknowledged that President Biden did not leave enough troops for a scenario in which an evacuation was necessary to hold Bagram, protect the embassy, and protect Karzai International.
Milley said their mission was to keep the embassy open and get the level of “troops down to a 600–700 number.”
In other words...he screwed up.
On Wednesday afternoon, at a joint press conference, Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Mark Milley were asked about the decision to evacuate from Karzai International instead of Bagram. Lloyd didn’t address the question. Milley’s answer was a mouthful, but the bottom line is that there weren’t enough troops.
“If we were to keep both Bagram and the embassy going,” Milley said, that would require “a significant number of military forces,” so “you had to collapse one or the other.”
Milley also said the generals “estimated that the risk” of going out of Bagram or Karzai International “was about the same,” but he also acknowledged that President Biden did not leave enough troops for a scenario in which an evacuation was necessary to hold Bagram, protect the embassy, and protect Karzai International.
Milley said their mission was to keep the embassy open and get the level of “troops down to a 600–700 number.”
In other words...he screwed up.
BizSuitStacy · M
No real American would commit these atrocities against its own citizens. Abandoning Afghani allies, screwing over the UK and France, as well as giving up billions of $$ in military assets and technology is gasoline on an already raging fire. Make no mistake, the sock puppet in chief, Beijing Buyden isn't the one pulling the strings here.
AthrillatheHunt · 51-55, M
@QuixoticSoul I had no idea Kabul was that big
I’d figure 1-2 mill tops
I’d figure 1-2 mill tops
QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
@AthrillatheHunt I got my numbers mixed up - it's 4.3 million. Not a small place.
AthrillatheHunt · 51-55, M
@QuixoticSoul still double what I would have thought .
@wrule Yep, regardless of the consequences. But a quick peek at the casualty count over the past few years raises the questions: why suddenly the great rush? Why the pull-out without coordination with the Afghan government, and the Afghan military? Why did we coordinate with just the Taliban and not the people who we had been working with for 20 years?
More Americans are murdered in Chicago in just a single typical weekend than in an entire year in Afghanistan. We don't fix Chicago's crime problem by coordinating with the drug gangs and then suddenly pulling out the police and turning off the electricity at the police stations.
More Americans are murdered in Chicago in just a single typical weekend than in an entire year in Afghanistan. We don't fix Chicago's crime problem by coordinating with the drug gangs and then suddenly pulling out the police and turning off the electricity at the police stations.
QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
Look at the map - evacuating people from Kabul to Bagram would be an even bigger mess, not to mention that Bagram isn't equipped for civilian flights, and we didn't have the manpower to keep it secured anyhow.
Everything went to shit when the ANA melted, but our choices were all crap at that point.
Everything went to shit when the ANA melted, but our choices were all crap at that point.
JimboSaturn · 56-60, M
PicturesOfABetterTomorrow · 41-45, M
@jackjjackson Again, you are the one making dire pronouncements and conspiracies with no evidence. That is on you.
Oberon1 · 61-69, M
@jackjjackson Every time these new democrats are exposed for the complete incompetents that they are, all their little followers get extra crazy with their 'acting out'. They know they are on the wrong side of history, and they know that their heroes are despicable villains. All they know how to do is lash out like the spoiled toddlers that they are.
PicturesOfABetterTomorrow · 41-45, M
@Oberon1 And like a child you think anyone on earth that doesn't worship Trumpy and the GOP are Democrats. 🤦♂️
This seems like sort of old news, which has already been debated and supposedly "explained" in terms of available manpower.
If we're going to rehash it, why not repackage it by showing other downsides to only having one way in and out, like this;
https://www.businessinsider.com/who-and-unicef-cant-get-humanitarian-aid-for-afghans-into-kabul-2021-8
If we're going to rehash it, why not repackage it by showing other downsides to only having one way in and out, like this;
https://www.businessinsider.com/who-and-unicef-cant-get-humanitarian-aid-for-afghans-into-kabul-2021-8
@jackjjackson We abandoned Bagram in early July, and the decision has been knocked around a lot over the past week, including this one from 5 days ago which I had still starred.
https://www.nationalreview.com/2021/08/why-did-the-united-states-abandon-bagram-airfield/
As to the link, it points out that since there's only one way in and out of the country by air, aid is not getting in.
I'm not saying we should forget about mistakes at all, including the ones made by Biden, Trump, Obama and Bush, but at the moment, second guessing decisions made a month ago doesn't seem like the best use of our time compared to dealing with it's consequences.
https://www.nationalreview.com/2021/08/why-did-the-united-states-abandon-bagram-airfield/
As to the link, it points out that since there's only one way in and out of the country by air, aid is not getting in.
I'm not saying we should forget about mistakes at all, including the ones made by Biden, Trump, Obama and Bush, but at the moment, second guessing decisions made a month ago doesn't seem like the best use of our time compared to dealing with it's consequences.
jackjjackson · M
No it does not. However no one in charge appears to be dealing with the co sequences in any helpful way. If I missed something, please let me know. Soldiers from most European countries have gone out of in Kabul streets and gotten their citizens out. Not us. @MistyCee
@jackjjackson Last I heard was there have been at least several helicopter missions, but no boots on the ground, so to speak.
I still think this stinks, but it appears to me like the US has cut another deal with the Taliban and is trying to live with it publicly, while perhaps working covertly to get people out.
What is happening now is not clear, really, nor is what will happen when the end of the month comes up and America has still not lived up to the deal and gotten all of its people out.
I'm not defending Biden here, or even attacking Trump, but it seems to me like what we've been doing with Afghanistan for a long time is lying down with dogs, and now we've got fleas.
I still think this stinks, but it appears to me like the US has cut another deal with the Taliban and is trying to live with it publicly, while perhaps working covertly to get people out.
What is happening now is not clear, really, nor is what will happen when the end of the month comes up and America has still not lived up to the deal and gotten all of its people out.
I'm not defending Biden here, or even attacking Trump, but it seems to me like what we've been doing with Afghanistan for a long time is lying down with dogs, and now we've got fleas.
QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
@jackjjackson The Afghan higher ups were told that we were leaving Bagram, but the government was so dysfunctional at that point that the news never filtered down to the locals patrolling outside the perimeter who were taken completely by surprise, and thought that the crowd of looters that descended on the base were Taliban at first.
@Heartlander The ceremony stuff happens when you give a shit - and we’re long past giving a shit about Afghanistan. Nobody felt like giving speeches.
@Heartlander The ceremony stuff happens when you give a shit - and we’re long past giving a shit about Afghanistan. Nobody felt like giving speeches.
sunsporter1649 · 70-79, M
@QuixoticSoul Typical left-wing nut job, screw people, we don't care about human beings
QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
@sunsporter1649 lmao you goddamn hippie 🤣
PicturesOfABetterTomorrow · 41-45, M
MarkPaul · 26-30, M
PicturesOfABetterTomorrow · 41-45, M
We have yet to learn who ordered the unannounced late-night pull-out and who turned off the lights.
LordShadowfire · 46-50, M
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sunsporter1649 · 70-79, M
@tindrummer The truth irritating you?
tindrummer · M
@sunsporter1649 please focus
pianoplayingsteve · 31-35, M
