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Does the god of the bible allow human sacrifice or the sacrifice of children? [Spirituality & Religion]

It's said in the bible that one of the foul things done by the nations whom the Israelites conquered was sacrificing their children to their god.

But isn't that exactly what happens in the story of Jephthah?
He promises god that if he will grant Jephthah victory in battle then he will sacrifice whatever comes out of his house to meet him upon his return.
Now let's just blow right past the fact that at BEST something coming out of his house to meet him is going to be a pet and more likely a family member.

[quote]When Jephthah returned to his home in Mizpah, who should come out to meet him but his daughter, dancing to the sound of timbrels! She was an only child.[/quote]

Judges 11:34

And then Jephtha burns his daughter as a sacrifice to god in return for his victory.

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SW-User

I'm curious. What's your stance on abortion?

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Carazaa · F

@Pikachu
1. Yes
2. IF God kills it is for good because all things God does is good so Yes but don't blame God for people's destruction. We do that to ourselves!

Pikachu

@Carazaa

[b]Is god killing babies good?
Yes or no?[/b]

[quote]all things God does is good so [b][i][c=#BF0000]Yes[/c][/i][/b] [/quote]

There we have it. It's good when god kills babies.
And you wonder why people take issue with that kind of faith.

Speedyman · 70-79, M

And you wonder why we take issue with abortion. @Pikachu

Speedyman · 70-79, M

You are of course totally wrong again. You make a habit of this. Nowhere does it say that it was God’s Will he did this, in fact there are many commandments in the Law which forbid it. It is given as a tragic example of misguided zeal. Interesting you are so obsessed with trying to find fault isn’t it? Another example of your BPD?

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Speedyman · 70-79, M

You have completely no logic whatsoever and have completely misread that passage. That is because you are following the line of an idiot atheist who doesn’t understand anything rather than someone who understands it . No Bible commentator I know other than the idiot atheist who you are gullibly following because you’ve got no thought processes of yourself says what you are saying. The Lord gave Jephthah victory who then in misguided zeal it appears sacrificed his daughter. The whole point of the passage is the opposite to the one you are making that the Lord did not wish for his sacrifice and it was done in a misguided fashion . God has already forbidden human sacrifice in the law yet he was a man performing it in the fashion of a heathen. As I say you can believe these silly atheists who site you go on plunder but they only are in business because gullible people like you lap out the trash they put out. Those of us who actually know something about it laugh at them@Pikachu

Pikachu

@Speedyman

Blah blah blah ... you're this and you're that ... blah blah blah ... atheists! ... blah blah blah... ah, here we go (finally😏)

[quote]the Lord did not wish for his sacrifice[/quote]

Wrong.
I the lord did not want the sacrifice then he would not have given Jephthah the victory he asked for.
But the lord gave him the victory and knew that his daughter would be the payment.

Strike three, son.

Speedyman · 70-79, M

The stupidity of your replies increases with every reply you make. It seems to me that you need to go and get a job instead of wasting your time on the Internet. It might help you to grow up a bit@Pikachu

Lucia · 36-40, T

Does it matter what the bible says if you don't believe in it? What the bible tells most people is to be kind to one another, and to help where one can.

Some people who were born with the lack of a brain may occassionally do violent and stupid stuff blaming it on the bible, the koran or Donald Duck - that doesn't mean it's something those communities actually support.

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Speedyman · 70-79, M

I’ve not only had a lifetime of work, I’m still working which is more than you are apparently. I know it’s Saturday but what about all the other days of the week when your uselessly trolling the Internet? Go and get a job. Be a productive member of society@Pikachu

Pikachu

@Speedyman

lol that got your back up in a hurry.😁

Have you ever noticed that there appear to be may hours between blocks of my post? Say...the number of hours between bed and a workday?

lol of course you haven't because since i haven't actually bothered to convince you that i have a job, you think you've found your new weapon.
Same thing when you told me to get a girlfriend. Same thing when you told me to get friends and on and on.
You show me your insecurities with these barbs, speedy. You're only hurting yourself. And i hurt you most deeply when i pointed out your obsession with me because up to that point you had not used the word and after that point you used it in almost every post here.

You are obsessed with me. So go get some friends and spend time with them. See if there's a woman who will have you (doubt it) and go with those friends and girlfriend and do some charity work instead of trolling
every
single
thread i make.😂
That's what obsession looks like, speedy.

Anyway, i think that's all the time i shall spend putting you back in your place.
Ta ta🙂

Speedyman · 70-79, M

No doubt you’re spending your time uselessly anyway. Why don’t you get yourself a proper job? You make me laugh! You spend your time trawling and then you try and convince someone you are useful member of society. Pull the other leg! 🤣🤣🤣🤣@Pikachu

LonelyMan · M

No, but the liberals in our country sure do!

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Speedyman · 70-79, M

"As a dog returns to his vomit, so a fool repeats his folly“ (Proverbs 26:11@Pikachu

Pikachu

@Speedyman

[quote]so a fool repeats his folly[/quote]

Coming from the guy who just made a million [i]identical[/i] posts... couldn't have put it better myself
LMAO😆😂😭

Speedyman · 70-79, M

@Pikachu
"As a dog returns to his vomit, so a fool repeats his folly“ (Proverbs 26:11)

SW-User

Your first question :
[quote]Does the god of the bible allow human sacrifice or the sacrifice of children?[/quote]

The answer is no. The bible makes it clear that human sacrifice is strictly an abomination to the lord. God does not accept human sacrifice.

Deuteronomy 12:31

31 Thou shalt not do so unto the Lord thy God: for every abomination to the Lord, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods.

Deuteronomy 18:10

Let no one be found among you who sacrifices their son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft,

I know people bring up that story about Abraham sacrificing Issac but what they fail to understand is that God [b]doesn't [/b] allow the sacrifice to take place. It never happens! He stops Abraham! So, again, no, God of the Bible has never asked for a human sacrifice.

[quote]And then Jephtha burns his daughter as a sacrifice to god in return for his victory.[/quote]

And where do you see that God told him to sacrifice his daughter? God made no deal with him. He is the one who made a stupid vow and again, made a stupid decision to follow the vow. Where's God's involvement in this?

Carazaa · F

God requires us to put him first to receive his blessings, because he is a jealous God. God wants us to love our families but if we have to choose between loving our kids and loving God he wants us to choose God.
God makes deals with us a lot. Like when he says "I challenge you to give me your firstfruits and I will pour down a blessing on you and your barns will overflow."
It is important to note though, that God has told us not to murder in the 10 commandments so we are not to murder. But in war it's ok to kill.

God does not murder but he kills because he is Lord of all and he runs the universe according to his law and justice. He repeatedly tells us that we will be blessed if we love and obey him, but sin results in death.

In OT God is teaching us about himself in these stories and how imperfect and how desperately we fall short as humans. He allowes us to witness His Holiness and greatness by all the sacrifices the Jews had to perform to be in His presence which we wouldn't understand without these stories. These sacrifices to the priests are to gain forgiveness for sins. Sinful people are separated from God! The sacrifices symbolize the ultimate sacrifice of God himself taking our sins on his shoulders because He loves us so much! Abrahams sacrifice of his son is an example of Gods sacrifice of Jesus. The Bible is full of these similarities that have spiritual messages for us. The nations that the Hebrews conquered, won not just because those nations were sacrificing kids but because God didn't help them because they did not love God or His laws. So if we love Him he will answer our prayers which is so amazing. But we have to have faith and we have to repent and want to be obedient. Ofcourse we can't be perfect. Most are not willing! The price is just too high for them!

JesusChrist · 100+, M

Oh yes, a jealous god. The Christian love cant just be between 2 people, it's always a love triangle.

A jealous resentful god. As jealous and resentful as his followers.

Carazaa · F

@JesusChrist I am not a jealous person in the least 🙂 I believe in love!

robb65 · 56-60, M

There's two problems here:
1) just because the Bible records that someone did something doesn't mean it is acceptable to G-d. Assuming the English translation is taken at face value, anything could have came out of his house including a donkey. You can't offer unclean animals as burnt offerings either so offering a donkey as a burnt offering could not have happened, and even if it did somehow happen it would not have been acceptable either.

2) The bible never says that Jephtha actually offered his daughter as a burnt sacrifice. There's a glitch with the English translations that is easy to miss, the letter "Vey" added in front of a word is usually translated as "and" but it can also be correctly translated as "or". In other words the verse can correctly be translated as he would "offer it as a burnt offering... OR... he would give it to G-d". The second reading is not only more plausible but also more consistent with the rest of the passage that says something to the effect that she was given time with her friends to "bemoan her virginity".

Pikachu

@robb65

[quote]just because the Bible records that someone did something doesn't mean it is acceptable to G-d[/quote]

God knew what the sacrifice would be and accepted it anyway as evidenced by the fact that he gave Jephthah victory.

[quote]The second reading is not only more plausible but also more consistent with the rest of the passage[/quote]

Disagree.
Jephthah breaks down when he finds out that it is his daughter. You've destroyed me, this is a disaster. Not the reaction of people giving their only child into the service of god (As we see in Ruth).
And his daughter bemoaning the fact that she will die a virgin is no more indicative of a life in service of god than that she will die.
In fact, for a girl so immediately willing to go through with the sacrifice her father had promised to god, it seems more likely that she wanted two months before she died than because she was so cut up about having to go into the service of god.
Furthermore, the immediate description of her death following her return home seems to indicate that she was sacrificed. She returned home, her father kept his vow and she died a virgin, not and she was given to the lord.

purplepen · 51-55, F

It was Jephthah's idea, not God's. In my opinion Jephthah was very stupid, even if the story is a parable to show that a person should be very careful not to make foolish vows.

This story leaves me scratching my head though. I will probably have to study it in several commentaries.

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Pikachu

@SW-User

[quote]You're right about that. He did murder his daughter...But the reason he said that was because he had no seed, no son or grandkids[/quote]

Let's unpack that.

You acknowledge that he did murder his daughter. So what's the point of the assertion that he was not sad about his only daughter's death but of the lack of a legacy?
I think you lost focus on the fact that the point of saying he was sad about his lost legacy is to imply that he did not in fact sacrifice his daughter. It's an attempt to circumvent the awkward fact that god accepted a child sacrifice.
But since you DO acknowledge that he sacrificed his daughter as a burnt offering, suggesting that he mourned his lost legacy rather than his daughter is without point or merit.

[quote] not at God's direction.[/quote]

Agreed.
But he made a bargain for victory and god delivered on that victory, accepting his daughter (since he knew it would be Jephthah's daughter) as sacrifice.
See, you can moan all day long about how it wasn't god's idea, but the fact is that Jephthah asked for victory with a sacrifice and god delivered his enemies into his hands...accepting the sacrifice.

I'd like to see you directly address that. Explain why Jephthah's victory was not delivered by god as the bible states.

SW-User

@Pikachu [quote]I think you lost focus on the fact that the point of saying he was sad about his lost legacy is to imply that he did not in fact sacrifice his daughter.[/quote]

No, I am referring to his words:

[quote]“ You’ve brought disaster on me!”[/quote]

He is referring to the fact that his daughter's death means that she cannot give birth to a child, and he will not have a seed to carry on his legacy. And how do I know this? Because if you read on, she asked her father to give her two months to go into the mountains. She says she wants to "bewail [her] virginity." She is sad because she had never given birth to a child.

[quote]you can moan all day long about how it wasn't god's idea, but the fact is that Jephthah asked for victory with a sacrifice and god delivered his enemies into his hands.[/quote]

The victory had nothing to do with the vow that Jephthah made. God gave Israel the victory, not because Japhthah but because he had already promised Israel the land. The scripture doesn't say that God delivered the Ammonites into their hands because of Japhthah's vow. That is only what you presume. It doesn't say, "and God said, "yes, I will deliver them into your hands."" The Israelites would have won regardless of Japhthah's vow. There was no deal made between God and Japhthah. That was Japhthah's vow and his decision to murder his daughter. That had nothing to do with God.

Pikachu

@SW-User

[quote] She is sad because she had never given birth to a child.[/quote]

That show's what [i]she[/i] is sad about. Not what Jephthah is sad about.
And you've failed to address the mistake you made.
Arguing that Jephthah was sad that he would have no descendants is the argument which is made to attempt to show that he DID NOT sacrifice his daughter as a burnt offering as he promised god he would.
But you have already accepted the fact that he did. Even if he IS sad about that, you accept that he murdered his daughter.
Do you understand? Your objection if peripheral to the question of whether god accepted a child sacrifice.

[quote]God gave Israel the victory, not because Japhthah but because he had already promised Israel the land.[/quote]

Incorrect.
By the time of Jephthah, the Israelites have fallen from grace. They've repeatedly disobeyed god and as a result he no longer drives their enemies before them.
Victory is now granted by the piety of judges and the people's obedience to that judge's commands as relayed from god.
Moving on.

[quote]There was no deal made between God and Japhthah. That was Japhthah's vow and his decision to murder his daughter. That had nothing to do with God.[/quote]

There was a deal made. A sacrifice promised in sight of the lord as we see because god delivers his enemies into his hands.
NOT, and Jephthah won without the help of the lord. Get it?
As we see with Saul, a sacrifice which god does NOT accept will be met with a curse, NOT VICTORY.

Explain.

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Speedyman · 70-79, M

Why don’t you get a job coward instead of trolling the internet. Face up to real life, coward@Pikachu

Pikachu

@Speedyman

Not to self: speedy hates being called a coward. Used it twice in a two sentence response.📝

Speedyman · 70-79, M

Have you got a job Yet? No!rather troll the internet@Pikachu

DamnFeelz · 36-40, F

Well, God did ask Abraham to sacrifice his son as I recall. At the last minute God apparently changed his mind, but I still think that constitutes as an approved sacrifice

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Pikachu

@DamnFeelz

lol i'm sure in any human justice system you would certainly catch shit for that.
But in a biblical context i think it's harder to categorize this as an accepted sacrifice of a child.

DamnFeelz · 36-40, F

@Pikachu I guess that is the interesting difference of lenses. Someone can read the Bible and hold God to a different standard because of the presumed Omni present/omnipotence/divinity/, or you can read it from a human peer standard since supposedly we were made in God’s image. Depending on the standard of your expectations will influence the assessment of God’s behavior

Pikachu

@DamnFeelz

[quote] Someone can read the Bible and hold God to a different standard because of the presumed Omni[/quote]

That's actually one of my biggest problems with the god of the bible.
Too many things he does and commands are utterly morally abhorrent by any recognizable human standard.
But believers give him a pass because his ways are not our ways or because he has the authority to do whatever he wants.

SW-User

Another question: do you know that you're being used as a tool for Satan?

Reverend · M

@SW-User You have to believe in the God of the bible to know theres a Devil.

GodSpeed63 · 61-69, M

No.

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Pikachu

@GodSpeed63

No...it's what people really think of you. It's the way you present yourself in these interactions.
This isn't something we think is untrue but we're saying trying to hurt you.
This is how you look to us:
Unwilling to concede even the smallest point even when you are objectively wrong. Trying to redirect the conversation or playing silly games when you're backed into a corner. Playing stupid when you have no rebuttal.

The truth can hurt and i understand your need to soothe your ego....but this is what you've taught us about yourself.
Sorry.

GodSpeed63 · 61-69, M

@Pikachu [quote]No...it's what people really think of you.[/quote]

I seriously doubt that.

Pikachu

@GodSpeed63

I seriously believe that you doubt that.🤷🏻

SW-User

Oh. You should have seen the look of horror Cthulhu gave me when I told him that story...poor Cthulhu...

Pikachu

@SW-User

lol

Straylight · 31-35, F

Its probably the "other gods" part that he didnt like.

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Straylight · 31-35, F

@Pikachu He seems ok with sacrifices to himself. Maybe his issue with the other lands is that they didn't worship him.

Pikachu

@Straylight

Oh i see what you mean.

Speedyman · 70-79, M

If you read the Bible God never allowed human sacrifice@Straylight

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