Does the god of the bible allow human sacrifice or the sacrifice of children? [Spirituality & Religion]

@purplepen

[quote]It was Jephthah's idea, not God's.[/quote]

Agreed. Which would be the entire answer....except that god then [i]accepted[/i] the sacrifice of his daughter in the bargain for victory over the Ammonites.

But i'd be interested to see the apologetics on this one because it does seem very cut and dried to me.

@Pikachu I'm on lunch break so I checked Jephthah on wikipedia. They present several possibilities including the story being added later from folklore, and the moral decline of the ancient Israelites. I still have to check the Christian commentaries though.

@purplepen

Oh snap. It's dinner time here lol.

While i personally am open to the idea that the bible is largely an amalgamation of various folklore and tradition, for the purposes of this discussion i am assuming that the bible is the unerring, inspired word of god.

@Pikachu Rethinking Jephthah's Foolish Vow is an article by the Gospel Coalition. This article explains that in the context of the story, and the fact that she lamented her virginity, not her coming death, it seems most likely that the sacrificial offering was done by giving her to God's service like a nun. This makes most sense to me but I will read further on it later.

@purplepen

Yeah i've heard that one too.
But i think it's an obviously false interpretation.

Let's start with Jephthah's reaction to his daughter's appearence:

[quote]“Oh, my daughter!” he cried out. “You have completely destroyed me! You’ve brought disaster on me! For I have made a vow to the LORD, and I cannot take it back.”[/quote]

You've destroyed me. Disaster.
That's not the words of someone who is only giving their child in service to god. We don't see Ruth saying that she is completely destroyed because she has to give Samuel in service of god.

Secondly, Jephthah promised to sacrifice as a [i][b]burnt offering[/b][/i] whatever first came out to meet him. That was his bargain and:
[quote]When she returned home, her father kept the vow he had made, and she died a virgin.[/quote]

He kept the vow to make a burnt offering. He did not vow to make the first thing that came out of his house to meet him a nun, he vowed to burn it as a sacrifice. I think the mention that she died a virgin is to reassure us that her two months of "mourning with her friends" was not just an orgy lol.
It seems to me that this is rather stronger evidence than the fact that his daughter lamented not getting laid even though she would live out her days.

@Pikachu Jephthah's Vow, by Tim Chaffey, is an article that agrees with the actual burnt offering view. It is very disturbing but probably true.

@purplepen

I haven't read it but it seems like hard conclusion to escape from.

@Pikachu [quote]You've destroyed me. Disaster.
That's not the words of someone who is only giving their child in service to god. We don't see Ruth saying that she is completely destroyed because she has to give Samuel in service of god.[/quote]

You're right about that. He did murder his daughter, not at God's direction... But the reason he said that was because he had no seed, no son or grandkids, no future to carry on his legacy. Of course, Samuel did have sons and daughters because prophets could marry and women in the temple could marry also. There were no nuns back then. Women were encouraged to marry. They didn't operate like the Catholic church lol.

@SW-User

[quote]You're right about that. He did murder his daughter...But the reason he said that was because he had no seed, no son or grandkids[/quote]


Let's unpack that.

You acknowledge that he did murder his daughter. So what's the point of the assertion that he was not sad about his only daughter's death but of the lack of a legacy?
I think you lost focus on the fact that the point of saying he was sad about his lost legacy is to imply that he did not in fact sacrifice his daughter. It's an attempt to circumvent the awkward fact that god accepted a child sacrifice.
But since you DO acknowledge that he sacrificed his daughter as a burnt offering, suggesting that he mourned his lost legacy rather than his daughter is without point or merit.

[quote] not at God's direction.[/quote]

Agreed.
But he made a bargain for victory and god delivered on that victory, accepting his daughter (since he knew it would be Jephthah's daughter) as sacrifice.
See, you can moan all day long about how it wasn't god's idea, but the fact is that Jephthah asked for victory with a sacrifice and god delivered his enemies into his hands...accepting the sacrifice.

I'd like to see you directly address that. Explain why Jephthah's victory was not delivered by god as the bible states.

@Pikachu [quote]I think you lost focus on the fact that the point of saying he was sad about his lost legacy is to imply that he did not in fact sacrifice his daughter.[/quote]

No, I am referring to his words:

[quote]“ You’ve brought disaster on me!”[/quote]

He is referring to the fact that his daughter's death means that she cannot give birth to a child, and he will not have a seed to carry on his legacy. And how do I know this? Because if you read on, she asked her father to give her two months to go into the mountains. She says she wants to "bewail [her] virginity." She is sad because she had never given birth to a child.

[quote]you can moan all day long about how it wasn't god's idea, but the fact is that Jephthah asked for victory with a sacrifice and god delivered his enemies into his hands.[/quote]

The victory had nothing to do with the vow that Jephthah made. God gave Israel the victory, not because Japhthah but because he had already promised Israel the land. The scripture doesn't say that God delivered the Ammonites into their hands because of Japhthah's vow. That is only what you presume. It doesn't say, "and God said, "yes, I will deliver them into your hands."" The Israelites would have won regardless of Japhthah's vow. There was no deal made between God and Japhthah. That was Japhthah's vow and his decision to murder his daughter. That had nothing to do with God.

@SW-User

[quote] She is sad because she had never given birth to a child.[/quote]

That show's what [i]she[/i] is sad about. Not what Jephthah is sad about.
And you've failed to address the mistake you made.
Arguing that Jephthah was sad that he would have no descendants is the argument which is made to attempt to show that he DID NOT sacrifice his daughter as a burnt offering as he promised god he would.
But you have already accepted the fact that he did. Even if he IS sad about that, you accept that he murdered his daughter.
Do you understand? Your objection if peripheral to the question of whether god accepted a child sacrifice.

[quote]God gave Israel the victory, not because Japhthah but because he had already promised Israel the land.[/quote]

Incorrect.
By the time of Jephthah, the Israelites have fallen from grace. They've repeatedly disobeyed god and as a result he no longer drives their enemies before them.
Victory is now granted by the piety of judges and the people's obedience to that judge's commands as relayed from god.
Moving on.

[quote]There was no deal made between God and Japhthah. That was Japhthah's vow and his decision to murder his daughter. That had nothing to do with God.[/quote]

There was a deal made. A sacrifice promised in sight of the lord as we see because god delivers his enemies into his hands.
NOT, and Jephthah won without the help of the lord. Get it?
As we see with Saul, a sacrifice which god does NOT accept will be met with a curse, NOT VICTORY.

Explain.