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Something a lot of people don't seem to realize...

"If one group doesn't get due process, nobody does" is not just a slogan, it's a simple fact.

If illegal immigrants don't get a chance to at least argue they are in fact allowed to be in the country before getting deported, then neither do you if a cop calls you one because he doesn't like your face.

There's a good reason the constitution explicitly grants due process to persons and not just citizens. This is that reason.

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PicturesOfABetterTomorrow · 41-45, M

I am blanking on a name right now but I remember reading something by a German academic who studied the holocaust who pointed out that once a government has a system in place to persecute one segment of the population it can be turned on the entire population.

DavidT8899 · 22-25, M

Here's the fundamental mistake you are making:due process ,depending on the situation,doesn't necessarily entail the right to a hearing or be seen by a judge.For example ,if an illegal alien is caught attempting to sneak into the U.S ,they most certainly do NOT have a right to a trial. Immigration regulations state that they are to be arrested , detained,and immediately sent back to their country of origin.Thats the law;that's the DUE PROCESS.And while it's a little off the subject ,it's funny how progressives weren't worried about due process when the Biden regime was effectively ignoring the law to let them into the country in record numbers .

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DavidT8899 · 22-25, M

@basilfawlty89 Don't have to try again.I already said they get a hearing My point is that said hearing doesn't have to be lengthy or drawn out to establish illegality and to quickly deport.I very clearly spelled that out in my last post.

basilfawlty89 · 36-40, M

@DavidT8899 cute, many people were detained and sent to a glorified concentration camp before they even got a hearing.

All for the crime of...picking fruit and selling oranges?

Btw undocumented immigration is a civil matter, not a criminal matter. It's a misdemeanour, not a felony.

NerdyPotato ·

@DavidT8899 nobody claimed the hearing had to be lengthy. All I said that if illegal immigrants are denied even a short one, anyone can be denied one simply by calling them an illegal immigrant. I still don't see any explanation of how that logic is flawed in your opinion.

FoxyQueen · 51-55, F

I don't know how people can't see that if you take away due process from one single person, it is removed from all.

They really suffer from the "It Can't Happen To Me" belief simply because they don't want to let the people they currently hate have what they are granted in the Constitution.

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HootyTheNightOwl · 41-45

@NerdyPotato I'm more concerned for the disabled people who end up dead as a result of this.

See, I know that there are disabled people who couldn't get a PIP award hiding away as "carers" for someone who could get through the "Work Capability Assessment". They're still not going to pass the eligibility criteria after they've been tightened - so, they're either going to kill themselves after they get their appeal rejected... or, they're going to do what I will end up doing and kill themselves trying to do a job that they are physically incapable of doing.

NerdyPotato ·

@HootyTheNightOwl that too. It just hurts everyone, both dependent on PIP and those who are not.

HootyTheNightOwl · 41-45

@NerdyPotato Look at me, for example... you know from our extensive chats over years that I likely have ME/CFS and you know more than most what I go through on the average day with it.

I can't get PIP on my own right with the criteria set as it is - so, I've been "hiding" as a carer for STBX who currently gets PIP. I looked at his award from his last assessment... and, if his condition had remained unchanged from his assessment date (it hasn't, he has new diagnoses to add on now), then he would be one of the people who lose their PIP at his next review.

That means that I would have had to put more haste into chasing my own diagnoses of autism and ME/CFS (which I might still do yet - then I can go for more independence myself)... even if I do find the ability to work a few hours a week for my CV.

The reality is that I can't provide the same level of care now that I did ten or twenty years ago. I've been living with undiagnosed autism my whole life and ME/CFS at the stage of fainting since 2018 which is also undiagnosed because it's rare enough that most GP's don't know what they're looking at and they're trying to diagnose me with anything that causes fatigue - to the point where they're missing the part where I faint just walking around the mall.

I need help... and he needs help, too. I can't do this for another 18/20 years, never mind trying to work full time for 18-20 years. It'd be awesome if I could - I'd love to be able to learn new skills but I can't even find alternative careers I could potentially work in without help and support.

HootyTheNightOwl · 41-45

If I didn't know better, I would think you're looking for a block, too... considering that this is exactly what just happened to me for trying to argue the exact same point... 🤣🤣🤣

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basilfawlty89 · 36-40, M

@HootyTheNightOwl nah, was instead blocked by Davie up above.

NerdyPotato ·

@basilfawlty89 I'm not yet. He's just ignoring my questions for now.

HootyTheNightOwl · 41-45

@basilfawlty89 He blocked meh, too... I'm two up now... 🤔🤔🤔

MistyCee

It's a good point, but I doubt it will appeal to Trumpism's adherents, who have gone in whole hog on the "for me and not for thee" thing in just about every context imaginable.

NerdyPotato ·

@MistyCee they'll just have to find out the hard way when "not for thee" turns out to be "not for me either".

MistyCee

@NerdyPotato Or, more likely, they won't "figure it out" and go on whining about how unfair it is that they didn't profit from their crimes and dishonesty as they think others did.

Trumpists are the folks who think there's nothing wrong with committing crimes if you don't get caught, and that they should be excused from their own criminal conduct because someone else got away with it.

Ultimately, this behavior is antisocial. It can lead to effective results in the short term, but it's basically destructive for everyone in the long term.

The Trumpist is the guy who, after an entire clan has killed mammoth, steals the other hunters portion of the meat.

faery · F

It's what is called willful ignorance. They want to be ignorant of the truth and feel that it's safe for them because they think the loss of due process will never apply to them and people like them due to being in an unofficial exempt category. There is no amendment to the constitution that would protect citizens if people lose this right, yet they risk it all to soothe their xenophobia.

NerdyPotato ·

@faery it's a typical case of Main Character Syndrome.

faery · F

@NerdyPotato Indeed

Thevy29 · 41-45, M

Some of the deportees were suing trump and winning, so the current riots came at the right time for him to claim something something and get the case thrown out of court. 😳 and people voted for this guy

WestonT · 18-21, M

They all think it can’t happen to them, they all think the people it happens to are beneath them (in a category called “illegals”, which they aren’t in) therefore they’re immune from it. It’s never about principles, because those can be thrown away the second it involves someone you’ve decided you don’t have to care about.

JacobC2007

@WestonT exactly

Captainjackass · 31-35, M

Ice has become a terrorist organization for a facist dictator. If your on the up in up you shouldn’t have to wear masks when arresting people. In Mexico the cops have to do that but thats so they don’t get murdered by drug dealers. Ice agents have no such threat.

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