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You are paid what you are worth, (most of the time.)

Let me count the ways:
1. You are NOT entitled to a job. You have to EARN the job. That means a job has to be open, you have to have the skills to perform that job and you have to be the best candidate for that job.
2. You are NOT entitled to that bullshit "living wage" which only exists in unicorn dwelling unemployed diploma mill grads. You live on what you make. If you want more, you have to work harder and smarter for more.
3. You are NOT entitled to make money based on how hard you work. You could slave in the sun, day after day, making mud pies. You wouldn't be worth a cent. PERIOD.
4. Your pay is based on you reaching a VOLUNTARY agreement with an employer. He wants you to work for free, or a dollar a day. You want to work for $100 a minute, with six months vacation and five Rolls Royces for a car allowance. Your pay is where you and the employer meet somewhere in the middle.
5. The best example of this in the real world is a hospital. A heart surgeon makes more money than the janitor. That's because the heart surgeon's skill is more valuable than that of a janitor.
6. The ONLY time you are paid more than you are worth is a situation created by minimum wage. (Or if you are on WELFARE.) If you are a total bozo, the state has mandated that you not be paid what you are worth, if it is a penny an hour, but rather a minimum amount. Of course, those who are REALLY stupid and incompetent are never hired if their skills are worth less than the minimum wage.
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Richard65 · M
Nobody is saying a janitor should earn the same pay as a heart surgeon. Just that a janitor should at least earn enough to live on without hardship. Your entire post is just a ludicrous sweeping generalisation.
Reason10 · 70-79, M
@BohemianBabe
THIS vice president was the deciding Senate vote that hired a tens of THOUSANDS of extra IRS agents to prey on the Middle Class. She was also the Border Czar, and let in 30 MILLION people (same as the population of New Jersey.) She is as much to blame as Unelected Joe.
@Reason10
THIS vice president was the deciding Senate vote that hired a tens of THOUSANDS of extra IRS agents to prey on the Middle Class.

No, the IRS agents were to deal with the rich, because it's harder to get them to pay taxes. They have the resources to funnel money around and use loop holes. The working-class doesn't do that.

She was also the Border Czar, and let in 30 MILLION people

If that was true, you'd be fine with it. Trump tanked a bill that would have closed the border, but you don't care.
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SunshineGirl · 36-40, F
Well done for placing a value on human life and dignity. Presumably those who do not make enough to support themselves can morally be left to starve/freeze to death?

The heart surgeon's skills may be rarer than those of the janitor, but the former could not perform his job without the services of the latter. This is why a civilised society uplifts its weakest members.
No, but we should all work together. @Reason10
I always thought actors got paid so much is because the money is there because they are pooling it from the whole country not just one business. @Reason10
Reason10 · 70-79, M
@Spoiledbrat @Spoiledbrat
No, but we should all work together. @Reason10


People "working together" politically gave us the worldwide slave trade, communism, Nazism, the Holocaust, The World Wars and the Korean and Vietnam wars.

I get nervous every time someone says we "should" all do anything.

If you want to "do" something, elected Reagan and Trump like leaders, who take the handcuffs off the economy and it benefits EVERYONE.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
Nobody is going to convince me that a factory labourer produces less worth than a hedge fund manager

Sure, there are elements of meritocracy but it's filtered through layers of cultural bias, political economy, hereditary advantage and luck.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@Reason10 liberal goose steppers?

Lolz you are funny.
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MasterLee · 56-60, M
Why don't they raise minimum wage to $100 per hour? We all want that.

So what if a fast food burger costs $250 and heart surgery goes to $5 million.
1. True but society also isn't entitled to siphoning off individuals either, unless of course you're advocating for socialism, communism, etc. And also (as you later indirectly admit in the comments) meritocracy doesn't actually exist when: A. nepotism is rampant across many industries, B. one must work both smart and hard to succeed, and C. anti-merit programs like DEI are implemented especially for jobs where people get paid a lot (white collar, C-suite, STEM, etc).

2. Minimum wage at least in America started out as liveable wage, although I'm not quite sure if that's the case in other countries. Your second point contradicts your first point but whatever.

3. Still contradicting your first point; maybe come up with points that aren't self-defeating?

4. Not exactly a voluntary agreement when we live in a society where almost everything requires money to use, and everyone from a young age is brainwashed by government, schools, media, etc., to become obedient work drones. I haven't even gotten into the philosophy and biology behind what makes an action voluntary, and I don't think I need to. It's illegal for an employer to not pay employees except when it comes to internships and co-op opportunities (again, at least here). I know you're using those exaggerated statements as examples, but many will perceive you as strawmanning.

5. You also conveniently left out (but you only mentioned it in the comments) that a heart surgeon needs to attend higher education, acquire regulated credentials, and have proper training before they can even get hired. You also seem to ignore that depending on where one is in the world, yes, a janitor actually can get paid more than a heart surgeon.

6. Wrong, other instances where one is paid way more than what they're worth are positions given out via nepotism, DEI, or other BS shortcuts in the workforce. I do agree with you on 1 thing though, is that minimum wage shouldn't exist because mass automation will eventually make old farts like you obsolete, with only those that have acquired the necessary skills to create, maintain, and innovate upon such technology to thrive. Maybe if fiat currency wasn't a thing, we wouldn't need minimum wage or welfare because then money would be extrinsically valuable (backed by gold).
@uikakarotuevegeta usa is a rich rule country, money tlaks, al lmeritocracy is out the windown
you can earn more money in rich areas where there are less workers to do menial jobs, so gardeners ,cleaners carers can charge double the rate of somewhere else,supply and demand
@Reason10 ah yes, shifting the goalposts

property taxes do exist, maybe not in Florida, but they exist in many jurisdictions

teenager* and also you sound like you're a 4Chan troll in middle school

you do realize using capital letters like you're trying to shout is childish behaviour right? and also i can tell you're lying that you're a former sub teacher with the kind of language you're spewing lmao
@SunshineGirl i can asi live in a council house/project righ tin the middleof the rich area in uk
SunshineGirl · 36-40, F
@jefferson If you are fortunate enough. But this is a public subsidy/intervention and a clear indication that the market is not working efficiently.
basilfawlty89 · 36-40, M
You are NOT entitled to a job. You have to EARN the job. That means a job has to be open, you have to have the skills to perform that job and you have to be the best candidate for that job.

...and that's why undocumented immigrants don't steal jobs. You can't steal a job from someone if they were never hired in the first place. Thanks for playing.
Reason10 · 70-79, M
@MethDozer @MethDozer
@Reason10 95% of these people who hire them ARE Republicans. So doubt it will ever happen. Lip service is all it is.


Besides aren't you a Libertarian?

We'll wait patiently while you attempt to produce some sort of PROOF that those animals are hired mostly by Republicans. Of course, you have to research how many of those employers were busted by federal officers and maybe find out what political party they are members of. I could save you the time because Republicans follow the law. DemoNazis do not.

Second question: I have elements of conservative Republicanism (the rule of law, strong borders) but I also have the economic free market philosophies of libertarians. I part company with libertarians who would open the borders and legalize crack cocaine, but other than that I'm pretty much a free marketer.

I don't vote Libertarian because (a) the LP will never become a national party, which means it'll never be able to take over Congress and (b) the libertarians lost me when brilliant minds like Ron Paul and Andre Marrou were replaced by hard left Republicans like Gary Johnson. Today's LP is a joke.
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I'm not against minimum wage because some don't pay a fair wage. I'm okay with guidelines. I agree with number 2.
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SlaveEt · 36-40, F
sunsporter1649 · 70-79, M
Thanks, boomer boss 🤭
Shadyglow · F
someone's mad at his own fate.
Either we are a socialist democracy and people are taken care of or not. Nobody thinks American people are a democracy or a society. They're the economic engine of killers and rapers of our ecosystem. Nobody thinks we can escape the ownership.
@Reason10 my bad. Nobody established any rights to vote, there. Or anywhere else. No rights, no reason to avoid killing the enemy whenever we can.
Reason10 · 70-79, M
@Roundandroundwego

my bad. Nobody established any rights to vote, there. Or anywhere else. No rights, no reason to avoid killing the enemy whenever we can.

I don't know why they named the first ten Amendments the Bill Of Rights. Over a century, liberals have come to consider that to mean the BILL OF ENTITLEMENTS.

The first Ten Amendments are much more important than rights. They are limitations on the power of Government. You have have all the rights you want, but the wrong government (such as the Democrat Party for the past 150 years) make those rights irrelevant.

Speaking of killing the enemy, you might want to look to the Democrat party, who has involved this country in the BLOODIEST wars of all time, (starting with the Civil War.) Every major war, from the Civil War up to the Vietnam war has been started by Democrats.

And they took hundreds of thousands of times more lives than the War On Terror.
@Reason10 with people like you we can never establish rights.
Neman1622 · 46-50, M
I'm not discounting your post, just though it funny that your SN is reason 10, but you gave 6 🤣😆
Reason10 · 70-79, M
@Neman1622
Neman1622 · 41-45, M
I'm not discounting your post, just though it funny that your SN is reason 10, but you gave 6 🤣😆

The screen name Reason10 was created in the mid90s. (Gee! That probably makes me old enough to be everyone's grandfather here.) I originally wanted to be called Reason (named after the free market Reason Foundation). There were 9 other Reasons. The 10 was just a matter of what's next.
Elessar · 26-30, M
The right: I don't get why nobody votes for us anymore, it must be election fraud

Also the right:
MasterLee · 56-60, M
Still scratching my head over a heart surgeon cannot exist without a janitor.
Picklebobble2 · 56-60, M
Can't argue with this kind of logic.

That's why America is failing.
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Janitors make more than that. @jshm2
Reason10 · 70-79, M
@jshm2 Like I said in the opening post, a job is ONLY worth what an employer is willing to pay for it.
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@Reason10 wrong, the Renaissance led to many intellectual advancements beyond capitalism that contributed to the success of humanity in the modern age. i would tell you, but your primitive Erectus brain wouldn't understand even 0.0001% of what i'm telling you.

computers started out purely to allow for complex calculations to be done more efficiently, being limited to government, military, colleges, banks, and (select) businesses. the "modern" desktop and laptop computers weren't even a thing until the late 20th century as a way for them to be given to the masses and actually intended for profit.

and also wrong, cellphones of today rival supercomputers (with far better efficiency and in smaller form factor) from the early 2000s. the internet started out as a top secret military project by DARPA during the 1970s for wireless and secure communication. homes, mansions, and boats existed long before capitalism was even an idea...try again redneck.
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MethDozer · M
. He wants you to work for free, or a dollar a day.

At least you admit that what employers really want is to be able to own slaves again
SW-User
@MethDozer Why do I need to "drive a point"? What are you trying to prove?
MethDozer · M
@SW-User I mean if you just want to make a vacuous or at best convoluted and indecipherable statement and leave it at that you're entitled. Though I was under the impression you were actually trying to say something with a point to be made
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MethDozer · M
If you're job offering isn't able to afford the most basic of needs of a person than the job you are offering isn't worth creating and society doesn't need it.
MethDozer · M
@Reason10 No it's not. You haven't learned anything in history or politics if you actually believe that.


Capitalist greed moved jobs to the far east.
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MethDozer · M
"You're boss is doing you a favor. Your job is a privilege"
Reason10 · 70-79, M
@MethDozer
good, that's the only way it works. Collective workers is awesome

Not all the time. In heavily unionized states, the cost of living is WAY too high. All that extra unearned money you get is eaten up in higher costs.

No your WRONG. Right to work is a thinkspeak term for legalized union busting and meant to give employers the benefit of hiring scaves who enjoy the benefits of union fought benefits and pay, but not pay their dues in order to cripple unions and defund them so they go away.

You do not know what you are talking about. Right to work means the STATE cannot force a closed shop. All that crap you just vomited is just bullshit lies.


It's even been proven with empirical evidence that state economies suffer under right to work laws and wages go down due to them

FLorida, a RIGHT TO WORK state has the fastest growing economy in the country. People here have a better standard of living than in blue state shitholes.
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MethDozer · M
Yayyyy wage slavery!!!!
Reason10 · 70-79, M
@MethDozer
Yayyyy wage slavery!!!!

There is no such thing. The phrase is a oxymoron.
MethDozer · M
@Reason10 No there absolutely is if you actually choose to use your brain. You're tasked with proving it is oxymoron but you can't.
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