and any security for ukraine all sides can agree on that is acceptable to all parties
Actually, there was a very clear and unambiguous treaty regarding Ukraine known as the 1994 Budapest Memorandum.
Essentially, Ukraine agreed to give up all its nuclear weapons to Russia in exchange for safety from a U.S. or Russian invasion. Russia's invasion of Ukraine violates that treaty. And as a signatory to that 1994 Budapest Memorandum, the U.S. has a definite interest in righting Putin's current wrongs.
In the final version of the deal, Russia promised not to attack Ukraine. While the U.S. and the U.K. assured Ukraine they would aid if it was attacked by Russia, that promised aid did not guarantee military support like a NATO country would receive.
In 2009, Russia and the U.S. announced that the assurances in the Budapest Memorandum would continue to remain in effect in the future.
Russia promised specifically NOT to invade Ukraine, and the U.S. promised specifically to ASSIST Ukraine if the treaty were ever violated. And that's what the U.S. had been doing until tRump trashed the treaty and switched to appeasement.
If Russia had applied for NATO membership there would be an extensive historical record.
Russia never applied for NATO membership. Putin did cooperate with NATO's response to 9/11 when Bush attacked Afghanistan. It didn't do the Russians any good.
BTW, NATO has certain expectations about its members and aspiring members such as upholding democratic principles,
What democratic principles? Are you nuts? Have you not been screwed enough by your senators and representatives in Congress?
My Polish maid, a 50 year old American citizen, said she hated Russians.
Oh, I didn't realize you had such a comprehensive source of data on sentiment across the EU🤣😂 No, I'm not polish and I've never set foot there. I draw my conclusions about the dangers of Russian invasion from history. Hey! Let's start with Poland!! Polish–Soviet War (1918/1919–1921) Soviet invasion of Azerbaijan, 1920 Soviet invasion of Armenia, 1920 Red Army invasion of Georgia, 1921 Soviet invasion of Xinjiang, 1934 Soviet invasion of Poland, 1939 Winter War, 1939 Soviet occupation of the Baltic States, 1940 Soviet occupation of Bessarabia and Northern Bukovina, 1940 Soviet invasion of Manchuria, 1945 Hungarian Revolution of 1956 Warsaw Pact invasion of Czechoslovakia, 1968 Soviet–Afghan War, 1979–1989
These invasions are under the name of the Russian Federation, whose leadership comes out of the old USSR leadership. First Chechen War, 1994–1997 Second Chechen War, 1999–2000 Russo-Georgian War, 2008 Russo-Ukrainian War, 2014–present Russian invasion of Ukraine, 2022–present
Why would anyone worry about an invasion by Russia?? BECAUSE HISTORY !!!
P.S.: Here's a map of NATO members and when they joined. The major eastward expansion actually happened in 2004. Do you think the hatred of Polish maids drove all these countries to join the NATO mutual defense pact? Or could their joining be due to rational concerns about further Russian expansionism???
[@sree21]this is why i am alarmed about this coalition of the willing idea that come from our prime minister and backed by european countries to protect security of ukraime and europe from big bad vlad. if there ever is a cease fire or end of war in ukraine do they think putin will ever agree to having european nato member have boots on the ground in ukraine on putins doorstep . this is maybe a stumblig block to ending this war . it is fraught with danger with miscalculation on both side or the other could end as a shooting match or worse put this coalition of the willing idea where it belongs starmer in the bin
@smiler2012 On a separate post under this question I pointed out to you the 1994 Budapest Memorandum treaty that Putin explicitly violated by invading Ukraine. Because Russia casually violates treaties, even those made with the US, European nations don't expect Putin to hold to any new treaties either.
That's why Ukraine is requiring "security assurances." Because otherwise, Russia will treat the next peace agreement as a timeout during which it can buy more high tech from the US, replenish its weapons supplies, and then re-invade at leisure.
There can be no lasting peace without consequences for Russia. And consequences are exactly what tRump is avoiding (despite saying the opposite a week ago).
will a devious putin try and play trump for a fool
It's not a case of spoiling for war with Russia. It's more like a case of not wanting to be the next victim of a situation that Putin will turn into opportunity to grab more land. And he will do it through an arrangement with Trump under "oh well, shot happens, nothing to see here".
My Polish grandfather hated the Russians. They do not respect the right of "inferior" states on their border to national self-determination. They are pilfering imperialists.
I've never heard the term "spoil for war" before but I hope you're not asking why people want to defend cities where the Russians come in, tie people up, put bags over their head and shoot them. It's not a mystery.
Its rather routine , nothing new. “We have extensive experience in maintaining and securing Sweden’s territorial integrity with our incident preparedness,” says Jorgen Axelsson, the air force’s chief of operations. “What is new is that we are now carrying out the same flight mission from Poland and within the framework of NATO’s enhanced airspace surveillance of allied airspace. There are not many places were population love Russians , even without war.
There are loads of channels on YouTube, Rumble, Spotify, GETTR, people like Scott Ritter, colonel Douglas Macgregor, Garland Nixon, to name but a few, that will give you loads of information to look at, and come to your own conclusions
There are loads of channels on YouTube, Rumble, Spotify, GETTR, people like Scott Ritter, colonel Douglas Macgregor, Garland Nixon, to name but a few, that will give you loads of information to look at, and come to your own conclusions
Wow, you are following the same people I watch on Youtube, etc? None of those commentators gave reasons why NATO is spoiling for war with Russia. They just point out that they are wrong to do so. Trump is all over the place like a boat without a rudder.
She hates russians because after 17 years of their boots she knew that russians bring nothing except oppression, destruction, suffering, and death.
You are guessing. We all bring oppression, destruction, suffering, and death. It's a human condition. Good and evil are two sides of the same coin. You are that coin, newjanine. So am I.
Every nutjob in America carry a gun for self defense. A NATO member nation is similar to a conceal carry nutjob in America. Russia is afraid of NATO the way US cops are afraid when they have to deal with armed crazies who live in constant fear of threats.
putin's problem with NATO is that it blocks his plans to attack more and more countries (being kicked in the teeth by the Ukrainians kind of slowed him down as well)
This is your Russia hating rationale that is destabilizing Europe. Why do you care? Are you Polish?
Unlike putin's deceitful and murderous invasion of the sovereign democracy of Ukraine, huh? Of course, russians would think of a destroyed and depopulated Ukraine as 'stabilised'.
Are you Polish?
No
In any case, you don't need to be Ukrainian to support Ukraine... you just have to be a decent human being.
nato was to stop russian expansion. all nato have done since is expand closer n closer to russia and broken 2 minsk agreements. but the corrupt media always leave them details out
I want to establish the root cause of hatred for Russians in America.
Oh really??? I rather think that you're actually a Russian bot (probably in St Petersburg) tasked with stirring up dissent between Europe and the US - and, you know what, you're not actually very good at your job!
