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ElwoodBlues · M
@sree251 says
In addition, rich people have many more assets to protect - not just personal property but all their domestic investments amount to property. If we were invaded and subjugated tomorrow, middle class people would lose ownership of their houses, but rich people would lose ownership of all their stocks, bonds, trusts, etc. They have a LOT more property; it's fitting that they pay more to protect it.
As it is,t he richest Americans pay more than their fair share. They drive the economy and provide jobs. On top of that, they shoulder the burden of payroll taxes in addition to 401k contributiions for employees.
That's a mixture of highly misleading and dead wrong.the richest Americans pay more than their fair share.
NOPE! Not when you look at total tax burden. As Warren Buffet famously pointed out, His secretary Bosanek pays a tax rate of 35.8 percent of income, while Buffett pays a rate at 17.4 percent. Only cherrypickers who ignore payroll taxes would agree with your claim.On top of that, they shoulder the burden of payroll taxes in addition to 401k contributiions for employees.
NOPE! Corporations do that. As Mitt Romney famously pointed out, for tax purposes, "corporations are people too!" And the matching taxes they pay for employees is merely a form of deferred compensation. It's part of the employee's salary, not some gift from rich people.They drive the economy and provide jobs.
Again, that's corporations, not rich people. In fact, many rich people shift money to overseas tax shelters to avoid taxation. And corporations don't provide jobs out of the goodness of their hearts, they NEED workers to make money. And even though workers get more and more productive, their real wages stay stagnant. Why shouldn't workers share in the benefits of their increasing productivity??In addition, rich people have many more assets to protect - not just personal property but all their domestic investments amount to property. If we were invaded and subjugated tomorrow, middle class people would lose ownership of their houses, but rich people would lose ownership of all their stocks, bonds, trusts, etc. They have a LOT more property; it's fitting that they pay more to protect it.
Note that compensation includes health insurance, matching payroll taxes, commissions, etc.
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CorvusBlackthorne · 100+, M
@sree251 I see. So you prefer to be racist. Fascinating.
ElwoodBlues · M
@sree251 says
Yep, your fellow conservatives are the wokest bunch out there - or at least they talk the woke compassionate talk.
To act on that compassion would make me drive you woke people out of this world
You realize, of course, that the person preaching for compassion, the person who said "Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me" is the person who is worshiped by the great majority of your fellow conservatives.Yep, your fellow conservatives are the wokest bunch out there - or at least they talk the woke compassionate talk.
sree251 · 41-45, M
@ElwoodBlues
My fellow conservatives? Who the hell are they?
You are imagining things, Elwood.
You realize, of course, that the person preaching for compassion, the person who said "Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me" is the person who is worshiped by the great majority of your fellow conservatives.
My fellow conservatives? Who the hell are they?
Yep, your fellow conservatives are the wokest bunch out there - or at least they talk the woke compassionate talk.
You are imagining things, Elwood.
TheOneyouwerewarnedabout · 46-50, MVIP
no.
if we want cuts. lets start with making big gov into small gov..
if we want cuts. lets start with making big gov into small gov..
sree251 · 41-45, M
@TheOneyouwerewarnedabout No government is better than small government.
TheOneyouwerewarnedabout · 46-50, MVIP
@sree251 😎👍
DeWayfarer · 61-69, M
This is more an issue of buying up multiple properties just so the wealthy can limit the housing.
Housing should be a right within the limits of people's income. Not be a means to increase the wealth of the very rich.
Hence why the taxes are ineffective in limiting buying up properties.
Just make an out right law that only one house can be bought by a single individual or corporation for renting purposes.
Allowing renting of multiple units is not a solution to housing. Nor is taxes that can be avoided through itemized deductions.
The wealthy don't pay the same percentages anyway.
Housing should be a right within the limits of people's income. Not be a means to increase the wealth of the very rich.
Hence why the taxes are ineffective in limiting buying up properties.
Just make an out right law that only one house can be bought by a single individual or corporation for renting purposes.
Allowing renting of multiple units is not a solution to housing. Nor is taxes that can be avoided through itemized deductions.
The wealthy don't pay the same percentages anyway.
DeWayfarer · 61-69, M
@sree251
We have taxes because of society needs taxes to even be a society. Anything else is chaos.
Even under the barter system there was a form of tax. One product for every 100 products sold went to the king. Or weights were used with similar ratios.
Hence the kings weight's and measures standards then.
Yes! Never in history has the top 20% made more than the bottom 80% combined.
It's now less than the top 1% making more than the bottom 99%. And this includes China's billionaires.
https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-releases/richest-1-bag-nearly-twice-much-wealth-rest-world-put-together-over-past-two-years
Twice as much, it says. Others, just say combine. So I'm giving others some slack with that article.
We have taxes because of society needs taxes to even be a society. Anything else is chaos.
Even under the barter system there was a form of tax. One product for every 100 products sold went to the king. Or weights were used with similar ratios.
Hence the kings weight's and measures standards then.
We are a free market economy. You seem to believe that the wealthy is being irresponsible and need to be curbed.
Yes! Never in history has the top 20% made more than the bottom 80% combined.
It's now less than the top 1% making more than the bottom 99%. And this includes China's billionaires.
https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-releases/richest-1-bag-nearly-twice-much-wealth-rest-world-put-together-over-past-two-years
Twice as much, it says. Others, just say combine. So I'm giving others some slack with that article.
sree251 · 41-45, M
@DeWayfarer
I understand the need for taxes. Do you know that all our taxes go to pay 1. healthcare, 2. social security, and 3. war? 1 and 2 have already been paid for by taxpayers thru payroll deductions. The government had spent all that money and is now using current taxes to cover social security and healthcare payouts. And why are we funding wars? Who is attacking us?
We have taxes because of society needs taxes to even be a society. Anything else is chaos.
I understand the need for taxes. Do you know that all our taxes go to pay 1. healthcare, 2. social security, and 3. war? 1 and 2 have already been paid for by taxpayers thru payroll deductions. The government had spent all that money and is now using current taxes to cover social security and healthcare payouts. And why are we funding wars? Who is attacking us?
DeWayfarer · 61-69, M
@sree251 all of that depends on the needs of the society. And the very wealthy barely pay any taxes AT ALL!
Not just percentage wise.
Not just percentage wise.
justanothername · 51-55, M
A bigger work force means more taxable income for a government as opposed to higher taxes which only serve to push income earners to find more ways to hide their true income.
A bigger work force would also mean you have a strong trading economy.
You don’t get a strong economy when you impose 200% tariffs on goods that come from your trading partners because they will impose huge tariffs on goods that you are trying to export to their country in response to the tariffs you imposed on them.
It should also be noted that DJT has NEVER filed a tax return for ANY of his businesses and most of those businesses are in NYS.
So, before you get all excited about rich people paying taxes, remember that DJT is one of those rich people.
A bigger work force would also mean you have a strong trading economy.
You don’t get a strong economy when you impose 200% tariffs on goods that come from your trading partners because they will impose huge tariffs on goods that you are trying to export to their country in response to the tariffs you imposed on them.
It should also be noted that DJT has NEVER filed a tax return for ANY of his businesses and most of those businesses are in NYS.
So, before you get all excited about rich people paying taxes, remember that DJT is one of those rich people.
BizSuitStacy · M
That's a spin on the classic "the rich needs to pay their fair share of taxes" narrative in order to deflect attention away from the insanely wasteful gov't spending 💰💰💰.
SunshineGirl · 36-40, F
It's a proposal by one state to rebalance taxes which have become skewed. Would have been simpler just not to have given income tax breaks to the wealthy in the first place, but any attempt to make taxation less regressive should be welcomed 👍
sree251 · 41-45, M
@SunshineGirl
Your clarification is not perfect but good enough. I would consider taxes as levies to pay for common needs of members of society. Common needs implies equal share of expenses. You pay for what you eat. Any attempt to make taxation unequal to address perceived disparity is unjust and woke. It is indeed political. Why would you welcome that?
A public good is a commodity or a service that every member of a society can use - roads, schools, parks, etc. It is generally funded by taxation and is distinct from a private good which is consumed only by those who can afford to pay for it. Civil society is the social space between the individual and the state.
Your clarification is not perfect but good enough. I would consider taxes as levies to pay for common needs of members of society. Common needs implies equal share of expenses. You pay for what you eat. Any attempt to make taxation unequal to address perceived disparity is unjust and woke. It is indeed political. Why would you welcome that?
SunshineGirl · 36-40, F
@sree251 You surely recognise that large sections of the population - children, the retired, the disabled - are unable to pay a share proportionate to their consumption of resources. We do not exclude them from society, but we shift the burden of taxation to those who can afford to pay. This is the basis of a progressive taxation system. Similarly, we do not burden those on low incomes with a high marginal tax rate as that will impede their ability to participate in society and improve the status of them and their children. This is not political, it is very basic economics.
sree251 · 41-45, M
@SunshineGirl
It is not the economics of a free market capitalist society. If you want a progressive taxation system, then you need to go to China. If you want to strut your stuff as a nation of the free and thumb your nose at China, then tough it out even if you are a baby, or old and dying, or have no legs.
This is not political, it is very basic economics.
It is not the economics of a free market capitalist society. If you want a progressive taxation system, then you need to go to China. If you want to strut your stuff as a nation of the free and thumb your nose at China, then tough it out even if you are a baby, or old and dying, or have no legs.
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sree251 · 41-45, M
@jshm2
How much, to you, is a large chunk of change?
Tax avoidance is not a crime. Deliberately stepping in the path of a truck is counter-intuitive. Deliberately avoiding that is common-sense.
Corporations of capitalist America are in the business of making money. The are not state-run entities of the kind in China where all the money they make go to the state.
Yes. I'd happily pay more tax. In fact I specifically tell my accountant not to use tax havens and that unless it's a large chunk of change not to bother with his usual juggling.
How much, to you, is a large chunk of change?
The problem isn't paying tax. It's the uber rich deliberately avoiding paying into the state and taking more out, than putting in.
Tax avoidance is not a crime. Deliberately stepping in the path of a truck is counter-intuitive. Deliberately avoiding that is common-sense.
Obviously the government can't call out whole corporations, instead they bring up these policies to try force then to put more money in than take out.
Corporations of capitalist America are in the business of making money. The are not state-run entities of the kind in China where all the money they make go to the state.
LeopoldBloom · M
You must be in Illinois. It's an advisory referendum, so it's not binding. A similar one in 2020 was rejected by the voters. If this one passes, the state legislature would have to pass a law, then it would go back to the voters to amend the state constitution. Illinois has the second-highest property taxes in the country, and many people have seen their taxes go up this year, so it might do well.
Teslin · M
ALL should pay their fare share.
No tax loopholes.
No tax loopholes.
Convivial · 26-30, F
I don't think it matters what approach to taxation is used, someone will always complain about it... And often with good reason..i don't think I've ever heard of one that falls fairly on everyone's shoulders
CorvusBlackthorne · 100+, M
What is wrong with the richest Americans paying their fair share? Jeff Bezos pays $0 in income tax despite making so much money that the human mind literally cannot fathom it.
sree251 · 41-45, M
@LordShadowfire
It would be difficult for you to hold his breath, something woke people do. Just mind your own business.
I wouldn't hold your breath. That's all he knows how to do.
It would be difficult for you to hold his breath, something woke people do. Just mind your own business.
LordShadowfire · 46-50, M
@sree251 You really haven't caught on yet, have you?
CorvusBlackthorne · 100+, M
@sree251
You also do not grasp the basic concept of why there is war in Gaza. Israel is currently engaging in a programme of genocide against the Palestinian people. Mr. Trump would support Israel in those efforts.
Trump is not proper leadership.
Trump won't impose reckless tariffs. His threats to do so are for drawing attention. It is the same thing moms do when their kids are not listening to them. He is a businessman. He won't shoot America in the foot.
You had better hope so. I have no such hopes for his intelligence.I do care about fellow human beings. This is why I want Trump to stop the wars in Ukraine and Gaza.
You do not grasp the basic concept of why there is war in Ukraine, then. Russia wants it, and they are willing to kill or relocate anyone in Ukraine who wishes to stop them. You also do not grasp the basic concept of why there is war in Gaza. Israel is currently engaging in a programme of genocide against the Palestinian people. Mr. Trump would support Israel in those efforts.
We can't stop fellow human beings from destroying themselves but we have got to disengage from involvement in their conflicts.
I respectfully disagree. The United States is still a powerful enough nation that it can, in fact, stop conflict with proper leadership. Trump is not proper leadership.
Patriot96 · 56-60, C
No incentive to invest which increases tax revenue
Yeah, then those who have three mansions yet decried the 1%ers to assuage the OWS movement; and is now a 1%er too should provide property tax relief.
Missbirdie1986 · 36-40, F
No, multi millionaires have enough expenses
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CorvusBlackthorne · 100+, M
@Gibbon How did I know you would be with your misspelled run-on sentences and pro-capitalist lies?