I'm curious to hear what trans people and allies think of trans women in women sports.

@DogMan [quote]So all media that doesn't follow the Woke narrative, is Fake News?[/quote]

Depends what you mean by "the woke narrative." Is that just reality?

[quote]It sounds to me that you are a Misogynist. You do not care about women or girls
at all. You Pro-Trans folks could care less about women, or their feelings.[/quote]

How does trans people having civil rights take any civil rights from anyone else?

@DogMan [quote]So all media that doesn't follow the Woke narrative, is Fake News?[/quote]
I think it's really revealing to see how conservatives define 'Woke' when they're under oath:

@BohemianBoo Look at the size difference of 'Kylie' (Kyle) Small here. What amount of hrt is going to negate the fact that a woman is going to have to take 5 paces for every one of theirs? Pedal that much more/harder, expend so much more energy to cover the same distance? This person was entering mens races as recently as April this year. Now come September/October they are taking podium spots from women.

@Pikachu I believe it has some effect tending towards that but, if we simply consider the relevant factors (i.e. relative strengths and abilities) we can ignore the effects of hormone treatments. My point is that we should not presume one thing will necessarily cause another.

@Sharon I'm sure that would work but i sort of doubt it will become the norm.

@Pikachu I'm sure there would be a lot of resistance.

@ServantOfTheGoddess Yes, relevant factors, not presumptions based on a person's sex (genital or chromosomal?)

@ServantOfTheGoddess Yes, but a woman with the same height and weight as a man,
will still be at a disadvantage. Unless that woman was born male, and competes against
females, then it will be a significant advantage.

@DogMan Whatever that disadvantage is should be measurable in terms that have nothing to do with sex, and adjusted for.

@Emosaur

[quote]The current IOC regulations allow transwomen athletes to compete if testosterone levels have been lowered to <10 nmol/L for 12 months prior to competition. While this begins to address the advantageous effects of circulating testosterone on athletic performance, it does not take into account the advantage afforded by testosterone exposure prior to transitioning. The existing data suggests that lowering testosterone to less than 10 nmol/L for 12 months decreases muscle mass but not to biological female levels and despite the decrease in mass, muscle strength can be maintained, especially if concurrently exercising. Estrogen therapy does not affect most of the anatomical structures in the biological male that provide a physiological benefit. Hemoglobin levels are lowered by estrogen therapy, and consequently, maximum aerobic effort may be lower, but this parameter will only be manifested if testosterone levels are suppressed to levels within the biological female range and maintained for extended periods of time. Reported studies show it is difficult to continuously suppress testosterone in transgender women. Given that the percentage difference between medal placings at the elite level is normally less than 1%, there must be confidence that an elite transwoman athlete retains no residual advantage from former testosterone exposure, where the inherent advantage depending on sport could be 10–30%. Current scientific evidence can not provide such assurances and thus, under abiding rulings, the inclusion of transwomen in the elite female division needs to be reconsidered for fairness to female-born athletes.[/quote]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9331831/

@braveheart21 [quote]If u want blocked keep up with your incorrect assumptions...[/quote]
Wow. I didn't notice that you replied to my comment.
[quote]I make my opinion based on reasoning from sports governing bodies after complaints from other sports personnel...[/quote]
And I take it you took the time to research each and every one of those claims to see if they were legitimate? I applaud you for your effort.

@jeancolby I'm with you on that.

@SatanBurger

Yeah i'm curious about that kind of thing. You see athletes like Lia Thompson who have undergone hormone therapy but still absolutely dominate the women's category even they were mediocre in the male category.

Is that typical? An outlier? Was your sparring partner a trans person who underwent male puberty?
And no, i don't expect you to have this information to hand lol

@Pikachu I don't know, I just always thought they were a woman until she told me how she was discriminated against by a group that handles professional athletes because she's trans. She's currently trying to get in via a lawyer.

Then I didn't tell her how shocked I was but I kind of came to the conclusion that she was trans and since they were a she, obviously she used to be male.

But I don't have any of that other info, I've just always sparred against her thinking she was a woman. I don't really notice any difference of performance but she is more muscular, not like in a huge way but that could make a difference.

I've never noticed though.

Keep in mind I've never seen her professionally fight so us sparring would be different. I'd be curious about it though

@SatyrService In that episode, they basically said men can compete against women in professional sports, simply by identifying as women. That's a lie.
For satire to be good, it has to be a humorous exaggeration of something actually happening in society. Good satire IS accurate in that the thing it's satirizing is real.

@BohemianBoo an exaggeration,, is not the same as a lie

i dont think there ARE men just saying there are women in sports

but i have seen men, with ZERO feminine qualities, identifying as a woman
and a muscly bearded guy is just hard to take seriously in that context

and Satire does often exaggerate

this is fun
[media=https://youtu.be/HTEUXulCJZY]

@SatyrService I saw it, very funny, only because it is based in truth. Exaggeration yes,
but an exaggeration of the truth.

@EmosaurConclusion from same source disproving the fairness of bio men / bio women.

The current IOC regulations allow transwomen athletes to compete if testosterone levels have been lowered to <10 nmol/L for 12 months prior to competition. While this begins to address the advantageous effects of circulating testosterone on athletic performance,[b] it does not take into account the advantage afforded by testosterone exposure prior to transitioning[/b]. The existing data suggests that lowering testosterone to less than 10 nmol/L for 12 months decreases muscle mass but not to biological female levels and [b]despite the decrease in mass, muscle strength can be maintained, especially if concurrently exercising.[/b] Estrogen therapy does not affect most of the anatomical structures in the biological male that provide a physiological benefit. Hemoglobin levels are lowered by estrogen therapy, and consequently, maximum aerobic effort may be lower, but this parameter will only be manifested if testosterone levels are suppressed to levels within the biological female range and maintained for extended periods of time.[b] Reported studies show it is difficult to continuously suppress testosterone in transgender women[/b]. Given that the percentage difference between medal placings at the elite level is normally less than 1%, there must be confidence that an elite transwoman athlete retains no residual advantage from former testosterone exposure, where the inherent advantage depending on sport could be 10–30%. [b]Current scientific evidence can not provide such assurances and thus, under abiding rulings, the inclusion of transwomen in the elite female division needs to be reconsidered for fairness to female-born athletes[/b]

@braveheart21 You misunderstand. If sports were treated as the leisure activity I consider them, there would be no huge financial rewards for them.

To me, paying professional athletes millions of dollars is more strange than letting a trans person play on their desired team.

But that is my opinion, and I understand very well how niche my opinion is... in fact my paycheck depends on the current system.

@ViciDraco as far as I'm aware the Olympics are still unpaid... Sponsored for flights etc but not like the tennis or other major sports... But still a biological man is going to be more powerful and resilient than a biological female ergo they should never meet in the same event... Unfair advantage to the trans woman...

That's just my opinion of course

@braveheart21 that resilience and power advantage fades over time with hormone therapies, based on what I've read.

@Emosaur

So do we require proof of at least two years of hormone therapy?

@Emosaur

Or separating people into competitive classes