Capitalism, why are people against it?
It what makes America the most economically advanced country! Why prefer Socialism over Capitalism?
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SW-User
I'd rather have good and universal healthcare, paid vacations, maternity and paternity leave, good infrastructure... all things the European social market economy provides. It's neither socialism nor hyper capitalism like in the US.
Human lives and happiness should always come before profit.
Human lives and happiness should always come before profit.
bijouxbroussard · F
Stillwaiting · M
@SW-User I have all of those things in my benefits package in America. All it took was getting an education in a relevant field and working.
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jackieash · 26-30
...then to make even more obscene hoarding of wealth for the fat cats, regulations for safe working, healthy envionments at work, and basic levels of service get stripped away. So you get to charge an increasingly obscene amount, not only for goods to make life more comfortable but even basic necessities, like water supplies and heating and lighting esp in winter, as well as cutting back on consumer rights.
I used the word "hoarding" at the start. Which is what it is. The ultra rich already have far more money that they could spend in 20 lifetimes for them and their family. It's hoarding money just for the sake of it. If someone hoarded bits of rubbish in their home, they'd be considered sick . Why is it considered different for those who hoard obscene wealth?
I used the word "hoarding" at the start. Which is what it is. The ultra rich already have far more money that they could spend in 20 lifetimes for them and their family. It's hoarding money just for the sake of it. If someone hoarded bits of rubbish in their home, they'd be considered sick . Why is it considered different for those who hoard obscene wealth?
ninalanyon · 61-69, T
PicturesOfABetterTomorrow · 41-45, M
Because it literally requires exploitation of the masses to make a tiny minority rich. It is destroying the planet, it has functionally recreated feudalism, I could go on.
Socialism is about people over profit.
And actually capitalism is why the US economy crashes like clockwork about every 10 years and why people are getting poorer.
Socialism is about people over profit.
And actually capitalism is why the US economy crashes like clockwork about every 10 years and why people are getting poorer.
CrazyMusicLover · 31-35
Because that system is the most natural and the nature has no mercy for the weak and sick. It can work well only in society where those who have means don't only use them for their own well-being and greed but help the disadvantaged too. Socialism doesn't guarantee this as well if the government is corrupt.
Gusman · 61-69, M
Because it uses people as nothing more than a means of making money for those who exploit the system.
It is unsustainable because the only way it can survive is to continue to make profits.
How are profits maintained?
Cutting jobs, forcing people into unemployment.
Moving the company offshore to lower waged countries.
It is unsustainable because the only way it can survive is to continue to make profits.
How are profits maintained?
Cutting jobs, forcing people into unemployment.
Moving the company offshore to lower waged countries.
Entwistle · 56-60, M
In one sense its extortion..i buy bread for £1 and i sell it to you for £2..its greed. It creates poverty where there should be no poverty.
Why cant we just produce stuff and distribute it all..Cars,food,clothing,housing etc? Provide services that way too?
Theres no real need for money other than to control people.
Why cant we just produce stuff and distribute it all..Cars,food,clothing,housing etc? Provide services that way too?
Theres no real need for money other than to control people.
MarthaT · 90-99, M
[/center]https://historyplex.com/barter-services-history-of-barter-system
Eternity · 26-30, M
The issue is greed.
Granted it is easier to be greedy in some systems than others, capitalism being the easiest, but ultimately the issue is the human proclivity toward hording more than they could ever need nor deserve.
The urge to greed, just like the urge to rape or the urge to murder, needs to become punishable by law.
Granted it is easier to be greedy in some systems than others, capitalism being the easiest, but ultimately the issue is the human proclivity toward hording more than they could ever need nor deserve.
The urge to greed, just like the urge to rape or the urge to murder, needs to become punishable by law.
MarthaT · 90-99, M
@Eternity Hasn't the greed (of the upper classes) been existed since the industrial revolution when underage kids were used, to sweep chimnies, do hard labor work. Thus, yield even more profits to the stinking rich people? Not to mention the slave trades and excessive ownership of land, buildings of the riches (there were no property taxes in those days) . Luckily, the law has changed but still doesnt make America perfect and many developing countries would continue to adapt America's 'advanced economic system' and make it even worse as most stupid Easterners dictators still think that America is the most developed country in the world while the Actuality are Denmark and Norway but these countries arent often heard on the mainstream media, that's all.
TinyViolins · 31-35, M
When profit is the end goal, everything gets treated like a number. People, the environment, our health and well-being, etc. The competition to be the most profitable, or the pressure to give back to share-holders, creates a race to the bottom in terms of cutting-costs.
What it often means is that our time and contributions as employees are reduced to the lowest dollar amount the market is willing to offer, which far too often means many people have to struggle to get by in this devaluation. Wages have not kept up with productivity in decades, so the people at the top are getting richer from this rise in productivity while so many others are piling up at the bottom.
The environmental costs are also an externality driven by this pressure to maximize profit. Using cheap fossil fuels in lieu of more sustainable forms of energy is causing global temperatures to rise and directly contributing to more extreme weather, which inevitably kills people and destroys communities. Pollution, deforestation, ocean dead zones, smog, etc. are all factors that businesses fail to consider because it all amounts to lost profits. They are incentivized to not care.
Then you get to our health and well-being. Food products are often loaded with cheap corn syrup or sugar in order to become more addictive, which contributes heavily to things like obesity, diabetes, heart disease, among other things. News and social media sites are designed by algorithms to be as addictive as possible in order to maximize ad revenue and data collection, which has caused so many people to become addicted to screens, to outrage, and to self-righteousness. It's tearing the fabric of society apart and they don't care because it's highly profitable.
The problem with capitalism is that there is no incentive to care beyond what the market demands, and when these capitalist companies grow to be large enough, which they most often inevitably will as only a small number of companies own the majority of the products available for us to consume, they dominate the market and can set their own rules. It's good for them, but not so good for anyone else.
Without real competition, they have no reason to change what has been working for them, and that often comes at the cost of things that actually make life worth living.
What it often means is that our time and contributions as employees are reduced to the lowest dollar amount the market is willing to offer, which far too often means many people have to struggle to get by in this devaluation. Wages have not kept up with productivity in decades, so the people at the top are getting richer from this rise in productivity while so many others are piling up at the bottom.
The environmental costs are also an externality driven by this pressure to maximize profit. Using cheap fossil fuels in lieu of more sustainable forms of energy is causing global temperatures to rise and directly contributing to more extreme weather, which inevitably kills people and destroys communities. Pollution, deforestation, ocean dead zones, smog, etc. are all factors that businesses fail to consider because it all amounts to lost profits. They are incentivized to not care.
Then you get to our health and well-being. Food products are often loaded with cheap corn syrup or sugar in order to become more addictive, which contributes heavily to things like obesity, diabetes, heart disease, among other things. News and social media sites are designed by algorithms to be as addictive as possible in order to maximize ad revenue and data collection, which has caused so many people to become addicted to screens, to outrage, and to self-righteousness. It's tearing the fabric of society apart and they don't care because it's highly profitable.
The problem with capitalism is that there is no incentive to care beyond what the market demands, and when these capitalist companies grow to be large enough, which they most often inevitably will as only a small number of companies own the majority of the products available for us to consume, they dominate the market and can set their own rules. It's good for them, but not so good for anyone else.
Without real competition, they have no reason to change what has been working for them, and that often comes at the cost of things that actually make life worth living.
SW-User
I'm not a staunch capitalist. But I'm not in support of high tax where I'd have to pay high tax as I earn more just coz I managed to get a good job through my hardwork where someone else who wasted his life can't earn a decent living and live on welfare and whatnot.
There's a reason why British doctors dump NHS and move on to other commonwealths while UK is forced to hire thousands of south Asian doctors each year to run the medical system.
Nonetheless, some sort of socialist schemes are important. In US, pharma companies/tech giants loot, and that should be controlled.
There's a reason why British doctors dump NHS and move on to other commonwealths while UK is forced to hire thousands of south Asian doctors each year to run the medical system.
Nonetheless, some sort of socialist schemes are important. In US, pharma companies/tech giants loot, and that should be controlled.
Elessar · 26-30, M
@SW-User [quote]There's a reason why British doctors dump NHS and move on to other commonwealths [/quote]
Because working or even owning a private clinic is more profitable from the POV of the doctor, plain and simple.
And no, to the average person it's more convenient a slightly higher taxation going into public healthcare (UK) than having to get a mortgage as soon as any health issue occurs (US).
Because working or even owning a private clinic is more profitable from the POV of the doctor, plain and simple.
And no, to the average person it's more convenient a slightly higher taxation going into public healthcare (UK) than having to get a mortgage as soon as any health issue occurs (US).
SW-User
@Elessar and there's nothing wrong in wanting to work at private clinic. Most people join med school for money, some for the love of medical science abd research. Money is the primary factor that decides competitiveness of med field. Pretty much every doctor hates public hospital coz they're overworked and underpaid.
No one becomes a cardiologist coz he wants to take care of your heart, but coz entry level salary is $400k at private clinic. And with 15 years of experience raking $1million/year becomes a child's game.
If govt paid adequately without forcing us to work 90-100 hours/week, no one would have ventured into private field..
No one becomes a cardiologist coz he wants to take care of your heart, but coz entry level salary is $400k at private clinic. And with 15 years of experience raking $1million/year becomes a child's game.
If govt paid adequately without forcing us to work 90-100 hours/week, no one would have ventured into private field..
Elessar · 26-30, M
@SW-User Yeah, but the reason they go private isn't taxes, but profit, that's my point.
Rather than using public money to bail out private corporations, maybe we could adequate the pay of doctors in the NHS and consequently stop the exodus.
Rather than using public money to bail out private corporations, maybe we could adequate the pay of doctors in the NHS and consequently stop the exodus.
softspokenman · M
Capitalism is good until 'some of them' become greedy and deceitful, 'profit before people', especially when people die as a result.
The 7 social sins: 1. Politics without principles. 2. Wealth without work. 3. Pleasure without conscience. 4. Knowledge without character. 5. Commerce without morality. 6. Science without humanity. 7. Worship without sacrifice.
Socialism: Improving the human condition and life experience for everyone.
With cooperation anything is achievable
The 7 social sins: 1. Politics without principles. 2. Wealth without work. 3. Pleasure without conscience. 4. Knowledge without character. 5. Commerce without morality. 6. Science without humanity. 7. Worship without sacrifice.
Socialism: Improving the human condition and life experience for everyone.
With cooperation anything is achievable
LeopoldBloom · M
Because you can’t have a privately funded military at our level. You need a socialized military which is why we have one. Same for our mostly socialized law enforcement. It’s hilarious how conservatives scream about socialism when the two aspects of government they like are fully socialized.
LeopoldBloom · M
@GeniUs I doubt if one in ten Americans could define "socialism" correctly. When a conservative calls someone a "socialist," they basically mean "someone I disagree with."
GeniUs · 56-60, M
@LeopoldBloom In fairness, I was brought up (UK) to believe Socialism was a bad thing but as an adult with the ability to read I've now managed to get over it.
LeopoldBloom · M
@GeniUs There are certain aspects of society that are simply done better by government. Among them would be the military, law enforcement, infrastructure, and setting standards for uniform measurement. By definition, if the government does something and pays for it with taxes, that's socialism. It's hilarious that the people screaming the loudest about "socialism" are also pathological in their worship of our socialized military and socialized law enforcement. They're mad at the FBI at the moment but that will pass.
People are mainly against it because it benefits only one demographic group within a society. Those who have the ability to 'Climb'
And fortunately I can climb.
But there is a moral question which is rarely if ever addressed and it's what about the crippled among us. Those who don't stand a chance ? Who looks out for their interests?
And fortunately I can climb.
But there is a moral question which is rarely if ever addressed and it's what about the crippled among us. Those who don't stand a chance ? Who looks out for their interests?
@NoGamesTolerated Yes I do understand these programs are in situ . We have similar schemes in the UK. & so there should be.
But what about 'Dignity' ?
None of it - for those who have to queue in lines at soup kitchens/ food banks. fishing out stamps at the supermarket often in front of their children.
Every human being should be afforded a sense of dignity. Theres no Article within the 'Human Rights Bill' which specifically stipulates this .
But there should be.
In westernised countries .. there are provisions a plenty to give it.
Rather than taking the comunist approach. I'm more in favour of the "basic income" ideal .
I believe a few of these schemes have been trialling in a handful of westernised countries.
Successfully it seems.
Give everyone a fair chance is my belief
'Humanitarianism' is the Socital Ideal . It really ought to be norm. & never Capitalism
But what about 'Dignity' ?
None of it - for those who have to queue in lines at soup kitchens/ food banks. fishing out stamps at the supermarket often in front of their children.
Every human being should be afforded a sense of dignity. Theres no Article within the 'Human Rights Bill' which specifically stipulates this .
But there should be.
In westernised countries .. there are provisions a plenty to give it.
Rather than taking the comunist approach. I'm more in favour of the "basic income" ideal .
I believe a few of these schemes have been trialling in a handful of westernised countries.
Successfully it seems.
Give everyone a fair chance is my belief
'Humanitarianism' is the Socital Ideal . It really ought to be norm. & never Capitalism
ABCDEF7 · M
They want everything to be free, be it food, health or energy, without doing hard work for that. So that they can find excuse to their laziness.
NoGamesTolerated · F
@ABCDEF7 Then they will make us work for nothing and do what they tell us to do!
DeWayfarer · 61-69, M
Greed begets even more greed is the true reason.
This actually is a historical reason.
The top 1% make more money than the bottom 90% combine!
That is simply immorally insane!
That top 1% are basically their own countries not accountable to any government.
This actually is a historical reason.
The top 1% make more money than the bottom 90% combine!
That is simply immorally insane!
That top 1% are basically their own countries not accountable to any government.
Justmeraeagain · 56-60, F
Because, you failed to check out the countries that have socialism and so, you fail to see what socialism brings to the countries who have tried it. Or you ignore all that and believe here will be different.
CrazyMusicLover · 31-35
@Justmeraeagain If those values don't work in capitalist society, they will hardly work in forced socialism. It will only result in oppression from the state, corrupt government and people abusing the system.
Elessar · 26-30, M
@Justmeraeagain Technically every first world country has elements of both, so that statement doesn't bode well with reality. Pure capitalism ("the market regulates itself without any need for regulation" style) is just as disastrous as pure socialism enforced by a corrupt party.
I could point you at Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway, and Sweden as positive examples for "socialism", and my own country, especially the south, as a negative example for "(unregulated) capitalism".
I could point you at Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway, and Sweden as positive examples for "socialism", and my own country, especially the south, as a negative example for "(unregulated) capitalism".
MiddleAgeNomad · 36-40, M
I think that when you honestly break it down most people support a European economic system which promotes a work/life balance. Speaking for the United States, our system is out of balance. Too many breaks and loopholes for the rich, and social programs most only get by staying poor.
Stillwaiting · M
For most who do .. its to get what they want without working for it. Its like these whiny people with masters degrees or higher wanting the rest of the country to fund their student loans. I borrowed over half the cost ofmy college .. paid back every dime. They can too.
meJess · F
Human nature requires incentives to perform. If socialism goes beyond a safety net and into eliminating the trappings of success then laziness takes over.
GeniUs · 56-60, M
@meJess Think about it this way;
you can be the guy who has some where to live.
something to eat,
healthcare
a vehicle to get about in
or
the guy who lives in a nice house
choses to eat well, to eat out
healthcare
a nice car, maybe a second car for pleasure
has multiple holidays
has executive boxes at sports events
retires early.
Let your imagination run riot, it doesn't end with everybody being the same.
The only difference between Socialism and Capitalism is that the state has the money (the people) not a few billionaires. This only affects a few people.
you can be the guy who has some where to live.
something to eat,
healthcare
a vehicle to get about in
or
the guy who lives in a nice house
choses to eat well, to eat out
healthcare
a nice car, maybe a second car for pleasure
has multiple holidays
has executive boxes at sports events
retires early.
Let your imagination run riot, it doesn't end with everybody being the same.
The only difference between Socialism and Capitalism is that the state has the money (the people) not a few billionaires. This only affects a few people.
Elessar · 26-30, M
No, it's not. Pure capitalism isn't a thing in the U.S. just like it isn't anywhere else, and above all isn't the reason the U.S. economy is what it is.
Spoiledbrat · F
My guess is that people with lower wages are tired of being slaves to wealthy people.
MarthaT · 90-99, M
@Spoiledbrat which is the definition of 'modern slavery' where wealthy people don't work at all while the working class work 6 - 7 hours a day for them. (6 - 7 hrs am i right? Or longer than that?)
Spoiledbrat · F
8 hours daily is considered full time. That's 40 hours a week. but @MarthaT
MarthaT · 90-99, M
Remember when the Telecommunications Act of 1996 bill had passed? What did you think about it?
Graylight · 51-55, F
Are we the most economically advanced country?
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/united-states
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/united-states
