Update
Only logged in members can reply and interact with the post.
Join SimilarWorlds for FREE »

Maine joins the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact

As everyone knows, the United States doesn't choose its president by popular vote, but by electoral votes based on the winner in each state. To win, a candidate needs 270 electoral votes. This is baked into the Constitution and switching to a popular vote would require an amendment.

However, the Constitution also allows each state to allocate its electoral votes any way it wishes. Originally, the state legislatures decided this, however, currently it's based on whichever candidate gets the most votes in the state. There is a proposal, called the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact, where states that sign on would award their electoral votes based on whichever candidate won the most votes nationwide, regardless of which candidate won in that particular state. This would prevent the situations in 2000 and 2016 where the loser of the popular vote won the election by having more electoral votes.

[c=003BB2]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Popular_Vote_Interstate_Compact[/c]

With Maine joining, the NPVIC currently has 209 electoral votes. It doesn't kick in until it hits 270, so at the moment it has no bearing on the upcoming election. Michigan, Arizona, Nevada, and Virginia have pending legislation to join the NPVIC; if they do, that will bring the total to 254 electoral votes. Needless to say, the NPVIC is favored by Democrats as they are more likely to benefit, since the last two elections where the winner lost the popular vote but was elected anyway were won by Republicans. So the most likely state that might adopt it and bring it over the top would be Pennsylvania, which could have a Democratic trifecta next year.

[c=003BB2]https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/4596054-maine-joins-effort-to-elect-president-by-popular-vote-with-new-law/[/c]

One advantage of a national popular vote would be that every vote would count. Under the current system, a Democrat in a red state, or a Republican in a blue state, might as well not vote at all because their state's electoral votes will go to the other party based on the state's majority. There are only around half a dozen true swing states without a clear majority for either party. With a national popular vote, a Republican's vote in California, or a Democrat's vote in Wyoming, would be added to the national total and could actually have an effect. This would prevent bizarre results like the one in 2000 where around 500 voters in Florida decided the election.

One disadvantage would be that since every vote counts, candidates would have to campaign everywhere, making them even more expensive. With only a few swing states, they can concentrate on those and ignore the solid red or blue states. Living in Georgia, I expect to see a lot more campaigning this year than I would have if I were still living in California or Oregon. That wouldn't be the case with a national popular vote.
22Michelle · 61-69, T
I'm always amused that the idea of an amendment to the Constitution is seen as being such a bigbthjng. Let's face ig therd havecbeen many amencnents over the years, including amendments to amendments. The idea ghat a document drafted around 250 years ago is fit for purpose in the 21st century is just laughable. I'm not saying this because it's any better here in the UK. It seems both the UK and the USA have electoral systems that are designed to dissuade people from voting and result in unpopular Government's. In 2019 43% of votes cast gave the Conservatives a Parliamentary majority of 80 seats allowing them to push through an unpopular and controversial Brexit.
This comment is hidden. Show Comment
@IronHamster You know that Soros is just the butt of conspiracy theories when some people say he's an Israeli agent behind the pro-Israel protesters, and others say he's an antisemite who is funding the pro-Hamas demonstrators.

The guy is just a billionaire who funds left-wing causes. The only difference between him and Peter Thiel or the Mercers is who they write the checks to. Personally I wouldn't object to laws that limited billionaires' involvement in politics, but good luck getting any Republicans to sign onto that.
@22Michelle The UN apportioned land based on where Jews and Arabs were living in 1947.

Bumbles · 51-55, M
The Electoral College is an abomination and the arguments for it are wildly disingenuous and absurd.
lasergraph · 70-79, M
The main reason for the electoral college is to prevent a highly populated area from controlling the whole country.
LordShadowfire · 100+, M
@lasergraph Hey, so how come you never got back to me with that evidence?
@LordShadowfire I think we all know why...
jehova · 31-35, M
Thinkerbell · 41-45, F
Let's imagine, for the fun of it, that the 270 electoral vote threshold is reached, and the Compact takes effect in time for this November's presidential election.

Let's further imagine that Trump barely wins the national popular vote but loses the electoral vote to Biden (according to the present system) by, say, 20 votes.

Do you seriously suppose that, say, California would stick to the Compact, if Biden had won (as he surely would have) in California? I think there would be a mad dash to Sacramento by CA legislators to reinstate the usual way of awarding CA electors.


Yes, yes, I know... there's a July 20 deadline for backing out of the Compact, but who is going to enforce it? Will the states that voted for Trump take CA to the Supreme Court for breach of a compact that they weren't even part of? 😂 😂 😂

All this, of course, assumes that the Compact isn't unconstitutional in the first place. (See Article I, section 10)
Theyitis · 36-40, M
@Thinkerbell So what’s your point? Are you saying the states in the compact are all hypocrites? How else besides this compact are we ever likely to get the president decided by national popular vote?

Anyway your scenario is unrealistic because the electoral college allots disproportionate power to the smallest states, the majority of which are solidly Republican states. The most likely way for your scenario to be realized, and it sounds laughable, would be for Trump to lose California and New York by only about 5 percentage points each and yet we end up with an electoral college map the same as in 2020 except that Trump wins back Arizona and Georgia.

If Trump comes within 5 percentage points in California and New York you can bet he’ll sweep the swing states. At a bare minimum he will win back Arizona, Georgia, Nevada, Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin.

The Annenberg Classroom on their website says that Article 1 Section 10 forbids states from entering into pacts or treaties [i]with other nations[/i], not with other states in the Union. That makes sense to me. Why would the founding fathers have seen a problem with states making deals with each other? What harm does that cause? Of course with the partisan hacks currently on the Supreme Court I could potentially see them ruling in favor of your interpretation, nothing would really surprise me anymore.
Thinkerbell · 41-45, F
@Theyitis

[quote] "Are you saying the states in the compact are all hypocrites?"[/quote]

I'm saying that most of the politicians that run those states are hypocrites. The OP himself said, " Needless to say, the NPVIC is favored by Democrats as they are more likely to benefit, since the last two elections where the winner lost the popular vote but was elected anyway were won by Republicans."

I chose CA as a particular example of egregiously hypocritical politicians because Pelosi, Schiff and Newsom are from there.

[quote]"Anyway your scenario is unrealistic..."[/quote]

I didn't say it was likely to happen, just amused at the thought of what the hypocrites would do in that event.

[quote]"The Annenberg Classroom on their website says that Article 1 Section 10 forbids states from entering into pacts or treaties [i]with other nations[/i], not with other states in the Union." [/quote]

If that's what the Annenberg Classroom says, then it's not telling the whole story.

The actual text of Article I, Section 10, clause 3:

"No State shall, [u]without the Consent of Congress[/u], lay any Duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, [u]enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State[/u], or with a foreign Power, or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay." [underline added]

https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/article-1/section-10/

So at the very least, the compact would require Congressional approval.

And as for the compact being Constitutional at all, see, for example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutionality_of_the_National_Popular_Vote_Interstate_Compact
@Thinkerbell That is one of the problems with the Compact. There's no enforcement mechanism if a state decides to violate it, and no penalty either. We could have a constitutional crisis if a signatory state went against the Compact and the governor refused to certify the slate of electors that won based on the popular vote.

You're also correct that the Compact would require congressional approval. It's also certain to be challenged, and the current SCOTUS would shoot it down in a heartbeat. I don't see it ever reaching 270 anyway as that would require the participation of at least a few Republican states.

It's far from a perfect solution. It's a kludge to get around the EC because there isn't enough support to amend the Constitution, which is really how it should be done. The EC served a purpose back when very few people knew who the candidates were, so it made sense for their state legislators (who your average citizen might have known personally) to choose the state's electors, and for the electors to choose the President. Those conditions don't exist any more, but we're stuck with the obsolete slave-era EC anyway.

It's not likely to happen, but if Trump wins the popular vote, but Biden is reelected by winning the EC, you can be sure that Republicans will be tripping over themselves in their haste to change the system.
Convivial · 26-30, F
There are many such anomalies in your voting system which puzzle us, the rest of the world.

Here for example, voting is compulsory and always takes place on a Saturday.. And there is always a good turn out.
Convivial · 26-30, F
@ninalanyon same as here, postal voting
LordShadowfire · 100+, M
@Convivial Oh, but Trump says voting by mail is automatically fraud.
Convivial · 26-30, F
@LordShadowfire Trump says a lot of things lol
Northwest · M
My state is part of it, and the state also helped set a precedent, when the Supremes ruled 8-0, for Washington in Chiafolo v. Washington, in 2016, when a couple of Wokes (yes, I'm using woke), decided to go rogue and cast their votes for Bernie.

Our votes need to have the same weight.
LordShadowfire · 100+, M
@Northwest woke
adjective
[i]ˈwōk[/i]
woker; wokest

[i]chiefly US slang[/i]
1
a
: aware of and actively attentive to important societal facts and issues (especially issues of racial and social justice)
b
: reflecting the attitudes of woke people
woke values/language
2
disapproving : politically liberal or progressive (as in matters of racial and social justice) especially in a way that is considered unreasonable or extreme

Source: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/woke
jehova · 31-35, M
Something needs adjustment for sure
This comment is hidden. Show Comment
@jshm2 We're too large to be a pure democracy, like Ancient Greece where the citizens voted on everything. Ross Perot proposed voting on laws by computer, but society is too complex to be run that way. Most people aren't interested in studying boring issues like fishery regulation or trade agreements, so we elect people to devote themselves to that full-time.
It's possible to elect the president.
American people always fail. They're owned. But some of them try.

 
Post Comment