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Ontheroad Ah interesting. See those are my goals (wife/kids). I've had quite a few relationships including some live togethers. I've certainly needed to tone down the "romance", in recent time. It would appear the world has changed some. I was brought up very old school. Meaning: court, date, marry. So anything outside of that, makes no sense to me. I just don't see how one can get out of the friendzone, once that's all a woman views you as. Or vice versa. That also leaves the possibility for them to date someone else, while you are their friend, and I've seen where the guy who was friendzoned gets totally devastated due to that.
I even had it happen to me, in early college. I was smitten by a particular woman, she friend zoned me, and i continued with hopes of winning her over. She ended up going out with someone else and getting into a relationship shortly after.
When I confronted her about it, she said "I blew my chance a while ago". That while ago was when the intentions weren't made clear I was attracted to her as more than a friend.
It happened a second time to me as well, I befriended a girl, hung out with her, picked her up from work, got to know her family... and then I asked her out on a date officially a year later. She declined. Since I had rapport with her mother, I asked why I got rejected. Her mother said "she doesn't want to ruin the friendship if a relationship doesn't work out". Meanwhile, I find out that she was attracted to my best friend at the time! And he had sex with her once and then threw her away.
I took those as lessons, and that's part of what shaped my mentality on the matter. From that point on, I refused to be an "orbiter" or "friendzoned". It completely changed that way I approached women. And, the change worked. At LEAST until 2021, where there seemed to start a huge trend of dating with no expectations/casual dating.
