A life was taken for this. And taken cruelly. How does that make you feel?
Just a question.
How does it make you feel to think about another life being painfully snuffed out so that you can enjoy the flavor of its flesh?
It makes me feel bad.
Just a question.
How does it make you feel to think about another life being painfully snuffed out so that you can enjoy the flavor of its flesh?
It makes me feel bad.
Scribbles · 36-40, F
It makes me feel sad. Not sure how it is in other countries... but in America, factory farming and the big slaughterhouses are always in violation for cruelty to animals (for efficiency) and problems with their workers, who are often injured or treated poorly. I almost never buy meat at the store (I prefer plant based meats and seafood but sometimes we'll eat meat). But if I do, I purposefully look for cruelty free labels and sustainable farming labels...because it's important to me. I don't like the idea of lining the pockets of people who treat their workers and the animals poorly and cruelly. They can go fuck themselves.
I do have nothing against people who eat meat, who raise animals themselves to eat, or hunt, or from smaller farms who are good caretakers. There are people out there who are good farmers and use small business butchers, etc. I try to buy from them.
Butchering is always horrible no matter what, because it is death. I can barely handle fishing. I always apologize to fish.
To this day, I dislike the idea of butchering animals but I also grew up with family members who had farms or raised small animals for eating and it was just normal. But No one was cruel there either, I think. But death is part of the process if you eat meat. It's not going to be for everyone. But I do think it's ok to farm animals if one is a good farmer.
Many animals eat animals. Humans are animals too. Some of us will eat meat and some of us will choose not to.
I think there is nothing wrong with being vegetarian or vegan or omnivore. But I do think it's good practice to treat animals well and reduce suffering.
I do have nothing against people who eat meat, who raise animals themselves to eat, or hunt, or from smaller farms who are good caretakers. There are people out there who are good farmers and use small business butchers, etc. I try to buy from them.
Butchering is always horrible no matter what, because it is death. I can barely handle fishing. I always apologize to fish.
To this day, I dislike the idea of butchering animals but I also grew up with family members who had farms or raised small animals for eating and it was just normal. But No one was cruel there either, I think. But death is part of the process if you eat meat. It's not going to be for everyone. But I do think it's ok to farm animals if one is a good farmer.
Many animals eat animals. Humans are animals too. Some of us will eat meat and some of us will choose not to.
I think there is nothing wrong with being vegetarian or vegan or omnivore. But I do think it's good practice to treat animals well and reduce suffering.
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Scribbles · 36-40, F
@BlueVeins I love it!
I make a few versions already of some things you have-espeically the soups. I'm not vegan, but I like a lot of recipes.
Those are all good ones. But there's a bunch of new things I've never tried.
Why did I never think to make a pot pie with tofu? That'll be something new I haven't tried yet with tofu. I'm really curious how it will turn out. I'll try it tomorrow, we still have part of a block since we only used half of it tonight. Beet hummus sounds so good. I'm very interested in the non-cheese since I'm lactose intolerant. I'm going to take a long look at those later I've made due without cheese for a long time, but it would be cool to have an alternative. So many plant based butters and cheeses are so expensive. :)
I know you have a Mexican food section But I highly recommend shredded carrots, some chopped mushroom, black beans and peppers with a little nutritional yeast and taco seasonings. That mix seems to be the right texture. It works great for tacos and enchiladas. Add some spinach and top with roasted tomatoes and it's so good. I make this alot at my house.
Also an all vegetable based cabbage curry soup is really good. Curry and cabbage go really well together. I highly recommend if you like cabbage.
The blueberry nice cream sounds good. I've made banana strawberry nice cream for years, but blueberry sounds nice for a change.
Thank you! 🙂 This is awesome!
I make a few versions already of some things you have-espeically the soups. I'm not vegan, but I like a lot of recipes.
Those are all good ones. But there's a bunch of new things I've never tried.
Why did I never think to make a pot pie with tofu? That'll be something new I haven't tried yet with tofu. I'm really curious how it will turn out. I'll try it tomorrow, we still have part of a block since we only used half of it tonight. Beet hummus sounds so good. I'm very interested in the non-cheese since I'm lactose intolerant. I'm going to take a long look at those later I've made due without cheese for a long time, but it would be cool to have an alternative. So many plant based butters and cheeses are so expensive. :)
I know you have a Mexican food section But I highly recommend shredded carrots, some chopped mushroom, black beans and peppers with a little nutritional yeast and taco seasonings. That mix seems to be the right texture. It works great for tacos and enchiladas. Add some spinach and top with roasted tomatoes and it's so good. I make this alot at my house.
Also an all vegetable based cabbage curry soup is really good. Curry and cabbage go really well together. I highly recommend if you like cabbage.
The blueberry nice cream sounds good. I've made banana strawberry nice cream for years, but blueberry sounds nice for a change.
Thank you! 🙂 This is awesome!
@BlueVeins
So important to understand.
Every time you choose not to eat an animal's body or the product of their suffering then you're making the right choice. It doesn't have to be the choice you make every time.
Here's everyone's daily reminder that veganism isn't an all-or-nothing thing.
So important to understand.
Every time you choose not to eat an animal's body or the product of their suffering then you're making the right choice. It doesn't have to be the choice you make every time.
Pinkstarburst · F
Well, it was raised, fed, and treated better than most humans. It had no idea that it’s death was coming and was less pain when it happened than a person dying of cancer. In all honesty, their life was lived and treated more humanely and respectfully than a human.
It isn’t a glamorous industry by any means, but it also isn’t the heartless, cruelty that many make it out to be.
It isn’t a glamorous industry by any means, but it also isn’t the heartless, cruelty that many make it out to be.
@Pinkstarburst
Yes i have heard of her. Very interesting how an autistic person can sort of identify with how animals like cows will react to things.
I like that she's made the gangplank less terrifying but i'm still not thrilled that it's there lol
Yes i have heard of her. Very interesting how an autistic person can sort of identify with how animals like cows will react to things.
I like that she's made the gangplank less terrifying but i'm still not thrilled that it's there lol
Pinkstarburst · F
@Pikachu I tried to be a vegetarian and made it about nine months. My body just could not adjust. I also learned in that time that I was highly allergic to soy which made it difficult to get enough protein in my system.
Morally speaking, I’m a meat eater and accept that death has to happen for me to have it. I grew up among hunters and am married to one. I learned the importance of land management of preventing overpopulation and disease. I know that’s different from the large production industries, but that’s why I try to know where my meat is coming from. I want to make sure there is a humaneness to the process.
I was able to hear Ms. Grandin speak and attend a dinner for her a couple years ago. A highlight of my life. She is highly respected in the industry.
Morally speaking, I’m a meat eater and accept that death has to happen for me to have it. I grew up among hunters and am married to one. I learned the importance of land management of preventing overpopulation and disease. I know that’s different from the large production industries, but that’s why I try to know where my meat is coming from. I want to make sure there is a humaneness to the process.
I was able to hear Ms. Grandin speak and attend a dinner for her a couple years ago. A highlight of my life. She is highly respected in the industry.
@Pinkstarburst
And to be clear, i don't have anything against people who can't abstain from meat be that for health or economic reasons.
I just think it's important for people to think about their choice their making (when it is a choice) and the reality of what that choice means to another life.
And to be clear, i don't have anything against people who can't abstain from meat be that for health or economic reasons.
I just think it's important for people to think about their choice their making (when it is a choice) and the reality of what that choice means to another life.
room101 · 51-55, M
@Pikachu Is it a fallacy that humans are omnivores?
Sure, we've got the biological and mental ability to change our eating habits. But, how does stating the obvious make it a fallacy?
I don't address your question because it begins from the premiss that the lives of cows etc are "taken in suffering".
I've been to quite a number of farms in various countries. The family of one of my close friends here in Spain own a huge pig farm. Years ago, I did a piece on poultry farms in the Lincolnshire area of the UK. My mother raised both chickens and rabbits for the table. One of my uncles in Cyprus was a goat herd. Sure, I've seen animals slaughtered in disturbing ways. However, that is far from the norm nowadays.
In short, your premiss is flawed when applied to how the vast majority of people get their meat today. Ergo, I see no need to address it any further. But, you asked so....................🤷♂️
Sure, we've got the biological and mental ability to change our eating habits. But, how does stating the obvious make it a fallacy?
I don't address your question because it begins from the premiss that the lives of cows etc are "taken in suffering".
I've been to quite a number of farms in various countries. The family of one of my close friends here in Spain own a huge pig farm. Years ago, I did a piece on poultry farms in the Lincolnshire area of the UK. My mother raised both chickens and rabbits for the table. One of my uncles in Cyprus was a goat herd. Sure, I've seen animals slaughtered in disturbing ways. However, that is far from the norm nowadays.
In short, your premiss is flawed when applied to how the vast majority of people get their meat today. Ergo, I see no need to address it any further. But, you asked so....................🤷♂️
@room101
No, it's a naturalistic fallacy to argue that it is morally acceptable to eat meat on the basis that it is natural for us to eat meat.
Apologies if that's not what you were attempting to say.
Can i ask when you visited all those farms?
And are you aware that the vast majority of meat and associated animal products are produced on factory farms and not by mothers raising a few chickens and rabbits?
Are you aware of the conditions on many of those farms?
Millions of animals living on concrete, up to their knees in mud and excrement or packed into cages barely big enough for their bodies or kept in lightless mega barns and pumped so full of hormones that their bones break because they're growing too fast. Beaks cut off so they don't peck, tails cut off so they don't get bitten off in a fight, horns torn out and burned so they don't damage other animals jammed in around them.
Is my premise flawed or is your understanding of the actual state of the industry...less than accurate?
Is it a fallacy that humans are omnivores?
No, it's a naturalistic fallacy to argue that it is morally acceptable to eat meat on the basis that it is natural for us to eat meat.
Apologies if that's not what you were attempting to say.
that is far from the norm nowadays.[quote]
[/quote]Can i ask when you visited all those farms?
And are you aware that the vast majority of meat and associated animal products are produced on factory farms and not by mothers raising a few chickens and rabbits?
Are you aware of the conditions on many of those farms?
Millions of animals living on concrete, up to their knees in mud and excrement or packed into cages barely big enough for their bodies or kept in lightless mega barns and pumped so full of hormones that their bones break because they're growing too fast. Beaks cut off so they don't peck, tails cut off so they don't get bitten off in a fight, horns torn out and burned so they don't damage other animals jammed in around them.
Is my premise flawed or is your understanding of the actual state of the industry...less than accurate?
room101 · 51-55, M
@Pikachu I never stated that it is morally acceptable for us to eat meat because humans are omnivores. I stated it as a rather obvious fact. I also accepted that we have the biological and mental ability to choose otherwise.
I have already stated the locations of some of the farms that I've visited. I did a piece on poultry farming in Lincolnshire in the UK and yeah, one of those farms was a battery farm and that was horrible. The other three, however, were free-range farms. One was a neighbour to the battery farm. How the two existed almost side-by-side was a bit mind boggling to be honest. Apart from a Kosher farm in Isreal, all of the others have been in the UK and Europe.
At first glance, the Kosher farm was a bit disturbing. However, once one understands the methodology of Kosher slaughter, one can understand that "suffering" is kept to an absolute minimum.
Apart from my day job, I'm a keen hiker. It's almost impossible to go hiking anywhere in Wales without seeing sheep and lambs grazing all over the hills and countryside. In Scotland it's not quite so commonplace but it's not unusual to come across a herd of cows blocking a trail. It's their territory, the trail is simply a "right of passage" for the general public. In October of last year, I had the same experience whilst hiking in the Greek island of Samos. We were almost at the summit of the highest peak on the island, Mount Lazarus, when we were met by a rather menacing looking herd of goats. No goat herd in sight because it was their grazing territory. They were not menacing at all to be fair. But their very impressive horns sure looked menacing lol. A few of them reared up on their hind legs to nibble at the tops of the shrubs growing everywhere. They were all easily much taller than any of us.
The point is that in Europe and the UK, animal farming is regulated. Both in terms of how those animals are kept and in the methods of slaughter. There are also very long historical traditions pertaining to grazing lands in general. Traditions which are legally protected by land rights etc.
Given the amount of processing that goes into any food product in the US, it's easy to understand that the US has very different "standards" to us here in Europe. Fun fact, regardless of its burgeoning population, the US is not the world and its population is not the majority.
I have already stated the locations of some of the farms that I've visited. I did a piece on poultry farming in Lincolnshire in the UK and yeah, one of those farms was a battery farm and that was horrible. The other three, however, were free-range farms. One was a neighbour to the battery farm. How the two existed almost side-by-side was a bit mind boggling to be honest. Apart from a Kosher farm in Isreal, all of the others have been in the UK and Europe.
At first glance, the Kosher farm was a bit disturbing. However, once one understands the methodology of Kosher slaughter, one can understand that "suffering" is kept to an absolute minimum.
Apart from my day job, I'm a keen hiker. It's almost impossible to go hiking anywhere in Wales without seeing sheep and lambs grazing all over the hills and countryside. In Scotland it's not quite so commonplace but it's not unusual to come across a herd of cows blocking a trail. It's their territory, the trail is simply a "right of passage" for the general public. In October of last year, I had the same experience whilst hiking in the Greek island of Samos. We were almost at the summit of the highest peak on the island, Mount Lazarus, when we were met by a rather menacing looking herd of goats. No goat herd in sight because it was their grazing territory. They were not menacing at all to be fair. But their very impressive horns sure looked menacing lol. A few of them reared up on their hind legs to nibble at the tops of the shrubs growing everywhere. They were all easily much taller than any of us.
The point is that in Europe and the UK, animal farming is regulated. Both in terms of how those animals are kept and in the methods of slaughter. There are also very long historical traditions pertaining to grazing lands in general. Traditions which are legally protected by land rights etc.
Given the amount of processing that goes into any food product in the US, it's easy to understand that the US has very different "standards" to us here in Europe. Fun fact, regardless of its burgeoning population, the US is not the world and its population is not the majority.
Dainbramadge · 56-60, M
Dainbramadge · 56-60, M
@Pikachu And
Dainbramadge · 56-60, M
@Pikachu OMG!!!! Okay. I guess it's probably no secret that I can be a bit slow ... well ... more often that not, but you just blew me away. LOL
Not CUT ... out for this thread. Cut ... Like prime rib is a cut of meat. LOL
Dude. I don't normally gush but that was a great one. :-)
Not CUT ... out for this thread. Cut ... Like prime rib is a cut of meat. LOL
Dude. I don't normally gush but that was a great one. :-)
Ontheroad · M
Okay, it makes you feel bad... we get that, but it appears your statement "..This isn't an attack on your choices.." might not be a true statement.
Just a thought maybe worth thinking about.
Just a thought maybe worth thinking about.
basilfawlty89 · 36-40, M
It doesn't make me feel bad.
I dont like meat because of texture.
I dont like meat because of texture.