A life was taken for this. And taken cruelly. How does that make you feel?
Just a question.
How does it make you feel to think about another life being painfully snuffed out so that you can enjoy the flavor of its flesh?
It makes me feel bad.
Just a question.
How does it make you feel to think about another life being painfully snuffed out so that you can enjoy the flavor of its flesh?
It makes me feel bad.
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@room101
I don't think that actually addresses the question though.
Of course you're going to do what you want to do and i'll do what i want to do.
I'm asking how it makes you feel to know that a life was taken in suffering so that you can enjoy a pleasant taste.
What is your answer to that?
...so you're deploying a naturalistic fallacy and calling it the end?
Ok, you do you.
I don't think that actually addresses the question though.
Of course you're going to do what you want to do and i'll do what i want to do.
I'm asking how it makes you feel to know that a life was taken in suffering so that you can enjoy a pleasant taste.
What is your answer to that?
2. humans are omnivores...........the end!
...so you're deploying a naturalistic fallacy and calling it the end?
Ok, you do you.
room101 · 51-55, M
@Pikachu Is it a fallacy that humans are omnivores?
Sure, we've got the biological and mental ability to change our eating habits. But, how does stating the obvious make it a fallacy?
I don't address your question because it begins from the premiss that the lives of cows etc are "taken in suffering".
I've been to quite a number of farms in various countries. The family of one of my close friends here in Spain own a huge pig farm. Years ago, I did a piece on poultry farms in the Lincolnshire area of the UK. My mother raised both chickens and rabbits for the table. One of my uncles in Cyprus was a goat herd. Sure, I've seen animals slaughtered in disturbing ways. However, that is far from the norm nowadays.
In short, your premiss is flawed when applied to how the vast majority of people get their meat today. Ergo, I see no need to address it any further. But, you asked so....................🤷♂️
Sure, we've got the biological and mental ability to change our eating habits. But, how does stating the obvious make it a fallacy?
I don't address your question because it begins from the premiss that the lives of cows etc are "taken in suffering".
I've been to quite a number of farms in various countries. The family of one of my close friends here in Spain own a huge pig farm. Years ago, I did a piece on poultry farms in the Lincolnshire area of the UK. My mother raised both chickens and rabbits for the table. One of my uncles in Cyprus was a goat herd. Sure, I've seen animals slaughtered in disturbing ways. However, that is far from the norm nowadays.
In short, your premiss is flawed when applied to how the vast majority of people get their meat today. Ergo, I see no need to address it any further. But, you asked so....................🤷♂️
@room101
No, it's a naturalistic fallacy to argue that it is morally acceptable to eat meat on the basis that it is natural for us to eat meat.
Apologies if that's not what you were attempting to say.
Can i ask when you visited all those farms?
And are you aware that the vast majority of meat and associated animal products are produced on factory farms and not by mothers raising a few chickens and rabbits?
Are you aware of the conditions on many of those farms?
Millions of animals living on concrete, up to their knees in mud and excrement or packed into cages barely big enough for their bodies or kept in lightless mega barns and pumped so full of hormones that their bones break because they're growing too fast. Beaks cut off so they don't peck, tails cut off so they don't get bitten off in a fight, horns torn out and burned so they don't damage other animals jammed in around them.
Is my premise flawed or is your understanding of the actual state of the industry...less than accurate?
Is it a fallacy that humans are omnivores?
No, it's a naturalistic fallacy to argue that it is morally acceptable to eat meat on the basis that it is natural for us to eat meat.
Apologies if that's not what you were attempting to say.
that is far from the norm nowadays.[quote]
[/quote]Can i ask when you visited all those farms?
And are you aware that the vast majority of meat and associated animal products are produced on factory farms and not by mothers raising a few chickens and rabbits?
Are you aware of the conditions on many of those farms?
Millions of animals living on concrete, up to their knees in mud and excrement or packed into cages barely big enough for their bodies or kept in lightless mega barns and pumped so full of hormones that their bones break because they're growing too fast. Beaks cut off so they don't peck, tails cut off so they don't get bitten off in a fight, horns torn out and burned so they don't damage other animals jammed in around them.
Is my premise flawed or is your understanding of the actual state of the industry...less than accurate?
room101 · 51-55, M
@Pikachu I never stated that it is morally acceptable for us to eat meat because humans are omnivores. I stated it as a rather obvious fact. I also accepted that we have the biological and mental ability to choose otherwise.
I have already stated the locations of some of the farms that I've visited. I did a piece on poultry farming in Lincolnshire in the UK and yeah, one of those farms was a battery farm and that was horrible. The other three, however, were free-range farms. One was a neighbour to the battery farm. How the two existed almost side-by-side was a bit mind boggling to be honest. Apart from a Kosher farm in Isreal, all of the others have been in the UK and Europe.
At first glance, the Kosher farm was a bit disturbing. However, once one understands the methodology of Kosher slaughter, one can understand that "suffering" is kept to an absolute minimum.
Apart from my day job, I'm a keen hiker. It's almost impossible to go hiking anywhere in Wales without seeing sheep and lambs grazing all over the hills and countryside. In Scotland it's not quite so commonplace but it's not unusual to come across a herd of cows blocking a trail. It's their territory, the trail is simply a "right of passage" for the general public. In October of last year, I had the same experience whilst hiking in the Greek island of Samos. We were almost at the summit of the highest peak on the island, Mount Lazarus, when we were met by a rather menacing looking herd of goats. No goat herd in sight because it was their grazing territory. They were not menacing at all to be fair. But their very impressive horns sure looked menacing lol. A few of them reared up on their hind legs to nibble at the tops of the shrubs growing everywhere. They were all easily much taller than any of us.
The point is that in Europe and the UK, animal farming is regulated. Both in terms of how those animals are kept and in the methods of slaughter. There are also very long historical traditions pertaining to grazing lands in general. Traditions which are legally protected by land rights etc.
Given the amount of processing that goes into any food product in the US, it's easy to understand that the US has very different "standards" to us here in Europe. Fun fact, regardless of its burgeoning population, the US is not the world and its population is not the majority.
I have already stated the locations of some of the farms that I've visited. I did a piece on poultry farming in Lincolnshire in the UK and yeah, one of those farms was a battery farm and that was horrible. The other three, however, were free-range farms. One was a neighbour to the battery farm. How the two existed almost side-by-side was a bit mind boggling to be honest. Apart from a Kosher farm in Isreal, all of the others have been in the UK and Europe.
At first glance, the Kosher farm was a bit disturbing. However, once one understands the methodology of Kosher slaughter, one can understand that "suffering" is kept to an absolute minimum.
Apart from my day job, I'm a keen hiker. It's almost impossible to go hiking anywhere in Wales without seeing sheep and lambs grazing all over the hills and countryside. In Scotland it's not quite so commonplace but it's not unusual to come across a herd of cows blocking a trail. It's their territory, the trail is simply a "right of passage" for the general public. In October of last year, I had the same experience whilst hiking in the Greek island of Samos. We were almost at the summit of the highest peak on the island, Mount Lazarus, when we were met by a rather menacing looking herd of goats. No goat herd in sight because it was their grazing territory. They were not menacing at all to be fair. But their very impressive horns sure looked menacing lol. A few of them reared up on their hind legs to nibble at the tops of the shrubs growing everywhere. They were all easily much taller than any of us.
The point is that in Europe and the UK, animal farming is regulated. Both in terms of how those animals are kept and in the methods of slaughter. There are also very long historical traditions pertaining to grazing lands in general. Traditions which are legally protected by land rights etc.
Given the amount of processing that goes into any food product in the US, it's easy to understand that the US has very different "standards" to us here in Europe. Fun fact, regardless of its burgeoning population, the US is not the world and its population is not the majority.