ArishMell · 70-79, M
No.
I think the USA is too strong to let herself fall into tyranny, but does have deep internal problems and divisions ripe for exploiting by the few rather than solving by the many.
America is not alone in that, but solving them can only be by a country's own residents by its own constitutional means.
As a foreigner I am not embroiled in those divisions I see played out in bitter insult-hurling rather than any analytical discussion on here, but I accept SW might not mirror real American life generally. Instead I think democracy generally under attack from several quarters and not only in the USA:
- Determined part-political extremism, of Right and Left though the former perhaps the stronger. These work by finding and exploiting widespread social ideas and fears.
- Attacks against democratic countries from hostile states - in America mostly on-line, but around Europe also by physical sabotage and murders.
- Manipulation by powerful publishers, particularly now the handful of very wealthy men who own the major [anti?]social media businesses and commercial TV companies, where not obliged to be objective and to clearly differentiate between news and views..
- Manipulation by individuals who themselves are not business people, politicians or foreign agents; but who delight in spreading "conspiracy theories" and so-called "mis"- or "dis-" information generally. Lies, in plain English.
- Ignorance and negligence by those who isolate themselves from anything not agreeing with their opinions, however mistaken. Are perhaps unable or are too lazy to question, to think, to examine in detail, to accept others' views even if not agreeing. This is reinforced by social-media sites that are designed to spot users' interests or opinions and steer them only in those directions.
I think the USA is too strong to let herself fall into tyranny, but does have deep internal problems and divisions ripe for exploiting by the few rather than solving by the many.
America is not alone in that, but solving them can only be by a country's own residents by its own constitutional means.
As a foreigner I am not embroiled in those divisions I see played out in bitter insult-hurling rather than any analytical discussion on here, but I accept SW might not mirror real American life generally. Instead I think democracy generally under attack from several quarters and not only in the USA:
- Determined part-political extremism, of Right and Left though the former perhaps the stronger. These work by finding and exploiting widespread social ideas and fears.
- Attacks against democratic countries from hostile states - in America mostly on-line, but around Europe also by physical sabotage and murders.
- Manipulation by powerful publishers, particularly now the handful of very wealthy men who own the major [anti?]social media businesses and commercial TV companies, where not obliged to be objective and to clearly differentiate between news and views..
- Manipulation by individuals who themselves are not business people, politicians or foreign agents; but who delight in spreading "conspiracy theories" and so-called "mis"- or "dis-" information generally. Lies, in plain English.
- Ignorance and negligence by those who isolate themselves from anything not agreeing with their opinions, however mistaken. Are perhaps unable or are too lazy to question, to think, to examine in detail, to accept others' views even if not agreeing. This is reinforced by social-media sites that are designed to spot users' interests or opinions and steer them only in those directions.
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ItsMeMorgue · 46-50, F
@TexChik Ah, yes. A constitutional republic. Also known as a representative what?
ItsMeMorgue · 46-50, F
@TexChik Come on, sweetie. You can answer this. It starts with a D...
JimboSaturn · 56-60, M
DeWayfarer · 61-69, M
@JimboSaturn There never was a Democracy.
The USA constitution was rigged against it even from inception.
The didn't even consider the vast majority even people. They were afraid of real people. And still are afraid of real people.
AI analysis of just my statement.
The USA constitution was rigged against it even from inception.
The didn't even consider the vast majority even people. They were afraid of real people. And still are afraid of real people.
AI analysis of just my statement.
Your thoughts highlight a critical perspective on the foundations of American democracy. Indeed, the U.S. Constitution was crafted in a way that reflects a compromise between various interests, and many argue it prioritized stability and governance over broader democratic ideals.
Historical Context
Limited Representation
At the inception of the U.S., key groups such as enslaved people, women, and native populations were excluded from the democratic process. The framers of the Constitution were primarily concerned with protecting the interests of wealthy landowners and preserving order, often at the expense of a fully inclusive democracy.
The Electoral College
The establishment of the Electoral College is often cited as a mechanism that undermines direct democracy. This system was designed to balance power between populous and less populous states, but it can result in scenarios where the popular vote does not determine the outcome of elections, fueling skepticism about true representation.
Ongoing Concerns
Current Perceptions
Many people express frustration with perceived elitism in politics today, feeling that leaders are out of touch with the needs and opinions of ordinary citizens. This ongoing disconnect raises questions about the effectiveness and authenticity of democratic processes.
Fear of the Majority
The concern that elites fear "real people" often resurfaces in discussions about voter suppression, gerrymandering, and policies that seem designed to maintain the status quo. Such practices can lead to disenfranchisement and disillusionment among voters.
The conversation around democracy is complex, involving historical contexts, social justice issues, and ongoing political debates.
Historical Context
Limited Representation
At the inception of the U.S., key groups such as enslaved people, women, and native populations were excluded from the democratic process. The framers of the Constitution were primarily concerned with protecting the interests of wealthy landowners and preserving order, often at the expense of a fully inclusive democracy.
The Electoral College
The establishment of the Electoral College is often cited as a mechanism that undermines direct democracy. This system was designed to balance power between populous and less populous states, but it can result in scenarios where the popular vote does not determine the outcome of elections, fueling skepticism about true representation.
Ongoing Concerns
Current Perceptions
Many people express frustration with perceived elitism in politics today, feeling that leaders are out of touch with the needs and opinions of ordinary citizens. This ongoing disconnect raises questions about the effectiveness and authenticity of democratic processes.
Fear of the Majority
The concern that elites fear "real people" often resurfaces in discussions about voter suppression, gerrymandering, and policies that seem designed to maintain the status quo. Such practices can lead to disenfranchisement and disillusionment among voters.
The conversation around democracy is complex, involving historical contexts, social justice issues, and ongoing political debates.
SammyJo · 51-55, F
JoyfulSilence · 51-55, M
No, because of federalism.
State and local governments stand as a check to federal overreach, and separation of powers across the three tiers mean no one tier can dominate.
People will rise up against too much tyranny, and tyrants can only rule if their servants comply. As soon as the police and military decide to slow walk things, object, sit on the sidelines, or even mutiny, it is over for them.
State and local governments stand as a check to federal overreach, and separation of powers across the three tiers mean no one tier can dominate.
People will rise up against too much tyranny, and tyrants can only rule if their servants comply. As soon as the police and military decide to slow walk things, object, sit on the sidelines, or even mutiny, it is over for them.
ItsMeMorgue · 46-50, F
@JoyfulSilence
People will rise up against too much tyranny...
Yeah? At what point does that happen? Because right now we've got ICE agents arresting toddlers, tear gassing babies and little old ladies, going into the wrong houses and shooting people's dogs, and pretty soon they'll be going door to door looking for enemies of the state.
JoyfulSilence · 51-55, M
JoyfulSilence · 51-55, M
@ItsMeMorgue
I cannot say.
It may start as millions of people protesting.
Then Trump will invade. And there will be more protests. Goons will start shooting into crowds. People will die. Crowds will start shooting back. It will be awful.
Or maybe not. Maybe all protesters will go home and hide rather than get arrested or shot at.
Or maybe there will be a nationwide strike and boycott. The US economy will sputter, angering corporations, who could pressure Trump to moderate and accommodate.
I cannot say.
It may start as millions of people protesting.
Then Trump will invade. And there will be more protests. Goons will start shooting into crowds. People will die. Crowds will start shooting back. It will be awful.
Or maybe not. Maybe all protesters will go home and hide rather than get arrested or shot at.
Or maybe there will be a nationwide strike and boycott. The US economy will sputter, angering corporations, who could pressure Trump to moderate and accommodate.
plungesponge · 41-45, M
The truth is you can't have a democracy for very long if you use a fiat currency.
Because whoever gets voted in has a magic wand where they can create endless amounts of money, and all it costs the country is the promise that the unborn will pay it pack, a deal with the devil the average voter is happy to take.
And once one entity figures out they can print endless power, they start buying and dismantling the checks and balances. America's official doom spiral became public when the US Comptroller quit and started publicly touring to tell the country how indebted the country was. He tried for decades. It hasn't worked.
Because whoever gets voted in has a magic wand where they can create endless amounts of money, and all it costs the country is the promise that the unborn will pay it pack, a deal with the devil the average voter is happy to take.
And once one entity figures out they can print endless power, they start buying and dismantling the checks and balances. America's official doom spiral became public when the US Comptroller quit and started publicly touring to tell the country how indebted the country was. He tried for decades. It hasn't worked.
ThirstenHowl · M
@SW-User and Trump wants to cancel those
walabby · M
@SW-User There's a strong possibility, unfortunately, that the Midterms won't happen. An excuse is being engineered to declare martial law and cancel the Midterms... :(
unregisteredhypercam4 · 22-25, M
Maybe. But remember, the first guilded age ended with a huge reformist era. It CAN happen if we actually do something more than just complaining online.
Pretzel · 70-79, M
It's just taking a break
BlueVeins · 26-30
Fundamentally, democracy requires a populace that's interested in discerning truth from fiction and advancing the well-being of themselves and others in order to function. About 30% of the US population has completely ceded their mental faculties to the GOP, and the GOP has built up a gigantic propaganda apparatus to keep their followers stupid and servile.
You simply can't make democracy work in America without fixing that problem, and the methods required to fix that problem are, in themselves, incredibly undemocratic.
You simply can't make democracy work in America without fixing that problem, and the methods required to fix that problem are, in themselves, incredibly undemocratic.
@BlueVeins
Amazing comment. So what do you call the
CNN+ABC+CBS+NBC+MSNBC+NPR+PBS+Hollywood+NYT+WP++++ apparatus?
the GOP has built up a gigantic propaganda apparatus
Amazing comment. So what do you call the
CNN+ABC+CBS+NBC+MSNBC+NPR+PBS+Hollywood+NYT+WP++++ apparatus?
BlueVeins · 26-30
@Heartlander The only thing all of those sources have in common is that they don't lie to their viewers to protect the GOP. To you guys, that's all it takes to be labeled propaganda. Basically all media in the US has propagandistic elements as a consequence of being owned by oligarchs and subject to access journalism, but to even refer to these things by the same term borders on the fallacy of equivocation.
Democracy is but a path, not a destination. It could be a path to that shining city on a hill, or a path to hell, from where escape is very difficult. By contrast, that path to to that shining city city on a hill has to be constantly cleared of influencers and the self serving who disguise hell to look like heaven.
LordShadowfire · 46-50, M
@meJess And now comes the part where you pretend that what I was saying all along is something new that I'm saying, so that you can have your little victory dance.
It doesn't matter. It's still a type of democracy. You people keep saying it's not a democracy, while your leaders make damn sure it gets turned into a christofascist state where folks like me are subjugated.
It doesn't matter. It's still a type of democracy. You people keep saying it's not a democracy, while your leaders make damn sure it gets turned into a christofascist state where folks like me are subjugated.
meJess · F
@LordShadowfire you seem very anxious to have the last word. Not aware you have said anything new, Sen’s people are touchy about the ‘representative’ part and what it actually means.
Not American by the way, you do things however you want, just interested in the methodology.
Not American by the way, you do things however you want, just interested in the methodology.
LordShadowfire · 46-50, M
@meJess I'm sorry. I'm just used to most of the people who get all touchy about calling it a republic rather than a democracy being exactly the type of people I accused you of being. Falsely as it turns out.
Allelse · 36-40, M
Looks like it.
BizSuitStacy · M
BizSuitStacy · M
@TheOneyouwerewarnedabout Sadly, but yes
kittee · 26-30
its in need for starting again
carpediem · M
@ItsMeMorgue Actually, if you could both read and think, you'd realize that a pure democracy is not the representative form of government we currently enjoy in the US.
ItsMeMorgue · 46-50, F
ThirstenHowl · M
I think it has
The bar to getting a more modern constitution is too high (too many red states would have to ratify it, and why would they want to give up their minoritarian advantage granted to them by the current constitution?)
There are no rules specified for how an Article V convention would actually be carried out either ... more of the half-assed job the "founding fathers" did
So without a civil war and dissolution of the current nation, replaced by one or more successor nations, or a sudden evolution spurt in the conservative mindset in red states, the future is bleak, particularly given how much power this nation wields against other nations (now dipshit is threatening tariffs on any countries that don't go along with his desire to take over Greenland ... this is exactly the kind of dictator shit our constitution should prevent)
The bar to getting a more modern constitution is too high (too many red states would have to ratify it, and why would they want to give up their minoritarian advantage granted to them by the current constitution?)
There are no rules specified for how an Article V convention would actually be carried out either ... more of the half-assed job the "founding fathers" did
So without a civil war and dissolution of the current nation, replaced by one or more successor nations, or a sudden evolution spurt in the conservative mindset in red states, the future is bleak, particularly given how much power this nation wields against other nations (now dipshit is threatening tariffs on any countries that don't go along with his desire to take over Greenland ... this is exactly the kind of dictator shit our constitution should prevent)
MethDozer · M
The USA was only ever slightly democratic. From voting being only for landowners, to laws restricting the right by gender and race, to modern times of denying the right to "naughty boys and girls". Then onto the slap in the face of the very concept that is the Electoral College. It's always been a sham. However whatever small semblance we have had of Democracy is being evaporated but by people whk mistake tyranny for greatness
LordShadowfire · 46-50, M
1490wayb · 56-60, M
both political parties manipulate to strengthen their grasp on power they control
Pfuzylogic · M
If the Republicans vetted their candidates like investigating the previous indictments they shared with Epstein.
Roundandroundwego · 61-69
It's not even a real country!
Democracy does fine, it's the evil that the population voted for that's stunning!
Democracy does fine, it's the evil that the population voted for that's stunning!
FreeLittleBird · F
Alyosha · 36-40, M
Representative governments tend to stagnate and collapse.
LordShadowfire · 46-50, M
@Alyosha And unfortunately, that's because of the human tendency to look around, see that things are pretty much the way they like them, and shrug their shoulders and do nothing, because we assume things will remain the same without us doing anything.
Never mind that it took centuries of work to get to where we are now, and we're still not at a place of total equality.
Never mind that it took centuries of work to get to where we are now, and we're still not at a place of total equality.
JimboSaturn · 56-60, M
@LordShadowfire I agree, it may stagnate but that is not because of the structure of the democracy; its due to the education, apathy, and cultural values.
swirlie · 31-35
No, not at all do I think American democracy has run its course.
ONLY the US Constitution has run its course. This is because the Constitution as it is written, cannot be applied to a modern day Democratic Republic, which of course is what the US is pretending to be.
With Americans making constant reference to what's written in their Constitution, America is using the assembly instructions for a Model-T Ford to create what they think will be the greatest country on earth when Trump finally rolls the first one off the assembly line himself.
I feel sorry for Americans at large because they all ended up dog-locked after spending 8 decades fukking each other for power and money, let alone what Americans have done to other countries. Sorry kids, you can't have it both ways! That's not how Karma works!
ONLY the US Constitution has run its course. This is because the Constitution as it is written, cannot be applied to a modern day Democratic Republic, which of course is what the US is pretending to be.
With Americans making constant reference to what's written in their Constitution, America is using the assembly instructions for a Model-T Ford to create what they think will be the greatest country on earth when Trump finally rolls the first one off the assembly line himself.
I feel sorry for Americans at large because they all ended up dog-locked after spending 8 decades fukking each other for power and money, let alone what Americans have done to other countries. Sorry kids, you can't have it both ways! That's not how Karma works!
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YoMomma ·
america has internal enemies manipulating people within
sunsporter1649 · 70-79, M
