This is what Jesus said about miracles being done and people not repenting: Matthew 11:20-24 [b]"Then Jesus began to denounce the cities in which most of His miracles had been performed, because they did not repent. 21“Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.22But I tell you, it will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for you. 23And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted up to heaven? No, you will be brought down to Hades! For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Sodom, it would have remained to this day. 24But I tell you that it will be more bearable for Sodom on the day of judgment than for you.”[/b]
So you see, the more proof given, the more faith is required. God is sparing us the punishment of not believing should we have seen real proof. That said miracles happen every day, just watch Benny Hinn.
@Pikachu I have met many atheists who expend great effort in trying to get the faithful to prove to them of his existence but it’s not necessary. I have my faith and I will never be turned from God through a lack of proof. My faith in my father will always make me stronger than those who Denny him or those that have known him and turned from him, my faith will not be shaken.
[quote]trying to get the faithful to prove to them of his existence [/quote]
I'm sure you have but that's not what this thread is about. Nor am i interested in trying to turn you from god. This is a criticism i have of the story and i'm here to discuss it with those who are interested in doing so in good faith.
A guy once said on a Nicholas Bowling video: "Even if your God showed himself me to me I'd tell him to go f himself" which correlates with what the bible says would happen.
I think that's a good quote demonstrating the absurdity of the apologetic that if god were to prove himself beyond a doubt then somehow this would rob us of our free will. Knowing god exists doesn't mean one has to love and worship him. There are a lot of good reasons not to lol
lol funny. There's a certain level of intellect that calls a counter argument "twisting words".... I sense this will not be a productive discussion so i agree: enough is enough.
@pdockal that is the goal of the atheist, to shake your faith. In doing so it brings them great satisfaction, people like these were foretold in the Bible, “the liars and deceivers” those that were turned by satan and spoke on his behalf to turn other.
I understand that sentiment. But faith is not a reliable way of knowing what's true. After all, the Christian knows that Muslims are wrong about what they believe just as the Muslim knows the Christian is wrong. Both of them are using faith to determine what is true but at best only one of them is actually right about it.
The traits of the Christian God would be a being that wants to save everyone due to omnibenevolence, with the omnipotence to do so and would have the omniscience to do it without the violation of the free will argument.
Which means God either does NOT want to save people or he does not exist. Both Occam's razor and the infinite LACK of evidence suggest the later.
