How do atheists explain theists' adherence to God.

You are asking me, who does not believe, to explain yourself, a believer, to you.

You do understand how asinine your question is, right? Why don't you explain athiest beliefs?

Religion has trained people to believe in something without evidence. Society pays for this with every conspiracy theory.

@DocSavage

Thanks for your lengthy post.

Let us have a sustained exchange but in concise language, on the topic "the origin of mankind."

I am theist and you are atheist, so that should be the most productive tournament of wits, yielding so much ideas, facts, and truths - that should enlighten many a soul which seeks explanation on how and why we mankind are in existence.

But hi DocSavage, please make your exposition in concise language, if you have many many many things to tell readers, try to divide them into several short cncise posts, because with so many many many words, it would seem that you yourself don't have any point to make that is sharply focused in your mind.

Or you wrongly imagine that with so many many many words people will be impressed that you are so very learned.

Okay, here we go, tell me about "the origin of mankind."







DocSavage · M
If this is too much for you to read , have the others here make it more concise for you. Once again, you lose.
We end up in the same place each time , and you never learn a thing.
You asked what does existence imply. But as usual you miss the one fact that destroys your argument. God doesn’t exist .
I exist, this implies that my parents also existed. It implies humans reproduce, and they biologically reproduce after their own kind.
God doesn’t according to you, god has no parents or ancestry.
God doesn’t reproduce after his own kind. According to your earlier threads, god is a spiritual being. He has no biology. He has no biological offspring. There is no human way to establish god’s existence.
Something can not come from nothing. If god is spirit, he , himself is not composed of matter. If he created the universe out of matter ( himself ) then there was never “nothing” until matter ( god) suddenly popped into existence, and decided to make itself into a universe. Which it would than take billions of years to put together, and millions more to populate
With life forms that are totally contrary to his own nature.
You make Gods impossible, so that can do all the things you can’t explain. Nothing within human limitations can imply the existence of a god, without those human limitations. That is why gods live outside time and space, and are not material.
You can prove we exist. You can show the universe exist. But you can not demonstrate any evidence for god you made impossible to prove.
You gave him all those powers and abilities yourself. You can’t break your own rules, without admitting you made them up in the first place.
We get the same results, with no god. In short, you lose again.

Confused, indoctrinated, low self-esteem. I am not atheist tho, I am a multidimensional reincarnationist. No religion, it is a perversion and should be outgrown. BTW, nobody needs to argue with you. Just believing something does not make it so, and this will be my only participation with your post.

The arguments seem to go round and round. I still think that at heart the relevant question is more to do with where the dividing line is between theistic and non-theistic spirituality. In the actual experience of Reality of each.

Looking at many of the deep Christian mystics, and taking their writings/sermons/testimonies at face value it becomes apparent exactly why many who live the Dharma recognise them as "Dharma Brothers".

Creed, belief - such seems to divide. Experience of the Divine (to give the Nameless a name) would seem to unite.

As I briefly mentioned before, of relevance is the "I-thou" relationship with the Divine that many seem to need. Should this ever morph into what could be called a death of self, a surrender of self, where unity with the Divine becomes some form of consummation?

Myself, I think that the "self" must "surrender" (grow dark) and in a sense become a reflector of the Divine back into the world. As I see it, "I-thou" can then manifest in relationship with others with whom we share our world.

These are all simply musings, ideas.

Thanks

Everyone knows that God exists through nature and conscience. No matter how much anyone has suppressed the knowledge of God.

Romans 212-16 - For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;) In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

Psalms 19:1 - To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.

God doesn't believe in atheists. The atheist does not exist, because ultimately every single person who claims to be an atheist right now will one day bow the knee to Jesus Christ and call Him Lord. In the end, every single human being will know that Jesus Christ is God and will know the whole truth. They do not know this truth now because they have been spiritually blinded by Satan.

2 Corinthians 4:4 - In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

@DocSavage

Hi DocSavage, you state, "As far as we’re concerned there is no difference between your god and the unguided, natural forces I mentioned."


As far as I am concerned, I go further than you because you are near-sighted.

I go to the very ultimate reality which is permanent self-existent God and He created the forces of nature.


You don't think at all to the ultimate reality which is that there is existence, there is never anything that is nothing.

That is the big difference between atheists and theists: Atheists start with nothingness, theists start with existence of the closest thing to mankind which is mankind itself, or for each individual person there is he or she the person that is closest to his/her self.

And from the thing closest to the person, correct rational and intelligent thinking in the person cannot otherwise than the person comes to the ulimate permanent self-existent entity whose essence is reality, so that it could not extinguish itself even if it wanted to.



In brief words, the rational intelligent person cannot otherwise than that he/she starts thinking about his/her origin and ends up with the entity whose essence is reality/existence itself.


You DocSavage cannot start with nothingness, then nothingness became somethingness.

IF YOU START WITH NOTHINGINGNESS THEN IT IS NOTHINGNESS - THE END OF THINKING, PERIOD.















DocSavage · M
Here is my answer why God created the universe, namely: because He wants to produce something as He loves to exercise His power, God is like an artist in mankind - we all humans notice that among ourselves there be persons with artistic talents, and they love to produce beautiful things - as the saying goes, Ars gratia artis (Latin - art for the sake of art i.e. beauty).
So, we’re an art project ?
So we don’t actually need him for anything anymore, do we ? As far as we’re concerned there is no difference between your god and the unguided, natural forces I mentioned. So, why believe in something that serves no purpose ? At least the mythical gods offer the illusion of an afterlife and salvation. Which answers your original question
You’ve god nothing , not even evidence.

@DocSavage

Hi everyone, take notice that DocSavage is now into evasion, namely: not answering my request to him in concise words:

That has been always this evasive routine of DocSavage:
1. He says that our existence does not imply the existence of God.
2. So I ask him what does it imply, and to answer my request in concise words.
3. Now he has gone awol.


Paging DocSavage, please resume our dialogue:

You say our existence i.e. mankind does not imply the existence of God, and I tell you that I will shelf that negative statement of yours for the time being in regard to non-implication to God from our existence, but tell me what our existence implicate then? And tell me in concise words.









yrger · 80-89, M
@DocSavage

Hi DocSavage, you tell me, "The question of existence itself is self evident."

Thanks, so we are existing and everything that we talk about is existing in one way or another, no need to prove that nothing became something which is absolute absurdity.


Now, you continue with the categorical negative statement:
"Our existence doesn’t imply god’s."

I will put that negative statement from you on the shelf for the time being.


Please tell me what for you does our existence imply, and make it concise - please answer and abstain from bringing in a question to me, because then we would be going on and on and on and on with questions and more questions . . .







DocSavage · M
The question of existence itself is self evident. It’s the mechanism you’re arguing. Not the results.
Our existence doesn’t imply god’s.

@DocSavage

Would you agree with me that there is existence in everything you mention in your long post.

Now, what about I tell you there are all kinds of things in existence, and there are all kinds of things which come from other things.

Of those things which come from other things, these other things come from still other things, until finally they reach what I call the first cause, and that is God.

So, do you now see that God is a necessary being while everything else is a contingent being.









DocSavage · M
Can’t be done by anyone at this time. Theories like quantum foam give a hint at the concept of nothing and the existence of matter. Abiogenesis a basis of the origin of life. Evolution, the diversity and progression of life. But you’re looking for a single primary cause for everything which can not be known.
You’re giving it human qualities, an agenda for creation, but all you end up doing looping back to the same problem. Your god requires an origin and a reason for its purpose. If the universe has no reason for existing, neither does a creator, ultimately . If he exist to create, then he exist as an agent for something with an agenda for creation. The same regression you gripe about.
Your god only moves the question back a step. Answers nothing. The flaw in your belief is you want to matter , you want your existence to count for something , rather than to be the result of what is. There doesn’t have to be a why. There just is.

If this is too much for you to read , have the others here make it more concise for you. Once again, you lose.
We end up in the same place each time , and you never learn a thing.
You asked what does existence imply. But as usual you miss the one fact that destroys your argument. God doesn’t exist .
I exist, this implies that my parents also existed. It implies humans reproduce, and they biologically reproduce after their own kind.
God doesn’t according to you, god has no parents or ancestry.
God doesn’t reproduce after his own kind. According to your earlier threads, god is a spiritual being. He has no biology. He has no biological offspring. There is no human way to establish god’s existence.
Something can not come from nothing. If god is spirit, he , himself is not composed of matter. If he created the universe out of matter ( himself ) then there was never “nothing” until matter ( god) suddenly popped into existence, and decided to make itself into a universe. Which it would than take billions of years to put together, and millions more to populate
With life forms that are totally contrary to his own nature.
You make Gods impossible, so that can do all the things you can’t explain. Nothing within human limitations can imply the existence of a god, without those human limitations. That is why gods live outside time and space, and are not material.
You can prove we exist. You can show the universe exist. But you can not demonstrate any evidence for god you made impossible to prove.
You gave him all those powers and abilities yourself. You can’t break your own rules, without admitting you made them up in the first place.
We get the same results, with no god. In short, you lose again.

@DocSavage

Before anything else, I Yrger theist challenge you DocSavage atheist to prove that God does not exist.

------------------

Hi DocSavage, thanks for coming out with your declaration about what atheism means, but I want you to issue a personal proclamation to this effect:
"I DocSavage am an atheist: because I know God as understood by Yrger theist to not exist, and I can prove it."

Here is what I say about myself being theist:
"I am Yrger theist: because I know that God exists as the creator and operator of everything that is not God Himself and I can prove it."


So, I am going to wait to witness you DocSavage atheist make the personal declaration above.


Hi all people in similarworlds.com, the man DocSavage atheist will not ever make that personal proclamation, in which case we have to examine his psychology of adherence to atheistm - which is a psychology of retreat instead of advance.

You DocSavage can run but you cannot hide from all members of similarworlds.com, starting with me Yrger.












yrger · 80-89, M
@DocSavageHi DocSavage, thanks for coming out with your declaration about what atheism means, but I want you to issue a personal proclamation to this effect:
"I DocSavage am an atheist: because I know God as understood by Yrger theist to not exist, and I can prove it."

Here is what I say about myself being theist:
"I am Yrger theist: because I know that God exists as the creator and operator of everything that is not God Himself and I can prove it."


So, I am going to wait to witness you DocSavage atheist make the personal declaration above.


Hi all people in similarworlds.com, the man DocSavage atheist will not ever make that personal proclamation, in which case we have to examine his psychology of adherence to atheistm - which is a psychology of retreat instead of advance.

I dont think is negative thing if people are to believe in God, it is maybe best for them and for some thing to have this belief. I am an atheist but I respect anybodys right to believe in faith of what ever they choose. I am comfortable to think I am a monkey on a rock flying through space, this is all the wonder I need!

Knew it

By God of nature I am referring to God as mankind can and does know Him to exist, by mankind's reason and intelligence.

And by God of supernature I am referring to God as Protestant Christians know Him to exist - by reading the Bible which holds the revelation of God by Himself, in particular of miracles He worked.

So, the natural man knows the God of nature by his natural reason and intelligence, while with the God of supernature Protestant Christians know Him to exist by revelabtion of God Himself by Himself, and recorded in the Bible.

Believers in the God of supernature expect God to work miracles, like commanding the sun (earth) to stop moving, while fans of the God of nature are happy that God created nature and is in control of nature.

As you can all see .yrger here claims there are at least two different gods. The god of the Christian, muslin, and Jewish faith. He believes his god, however is the actual true god. Above everything else.
Yrger is incapable of telling the truth, and sticking to his story. He will constantly change the subject and his story. Just now he stated there is only one god, his.
Even as an Atheist, I find this incredibly arrogant. And that’s saying a lot.

@DocSavage


Hi DocSavage, you say:
"A point of fact. You have not explained your existence. If you truly believe what you’re preaching, you probably don’t exist.
Think about it."


I did have explained my existence, namely: God the permanent self-existent creator and operator of everything not Himself made me - there, that explains why I am around.



Now, it is your turn to explain your existence.









DocSavage · M
am still asking you: "what is your explanation for your existence?
The advantage of being an Atheist. I can honesty say I don’t know. There are a bunch of explanations for the components. Quantum foam, abiogenesis, evolution. They’re more credible since they have some evidence. But I can accept the fact, there are things in life, that are unknowable. Your claimed belief is just too impractical to be even considered rational. You think you’re clever, but you fail to see how ridiculous it could be in the real world. Like many theist, you’re a narcissistic hypocrite. It all about ego to you.
If you actually read anything I put up, you would realize, what I said before.” You’re too human in your beliefs” god isn’t human.
A point of fact. You have not explained your existence. If you truly believe what you’re preaching, you probably don’t exist.
Think about it.

I’m here as always, I haven’t evaded anything or anyone. Who do you think you are, John Sunlight ?
I answered your last question. And this one.
It implies that we are here. Nothing more, nothing less.
Now, let’s see you answer a question. Why ?
Not how, not who, just answer why 42 went to all that trouble.
Then we’ll ask everyone , which of us is evading questions.

My, so many words, you need to be more concise, how do you expect people to read such a lengthy thread.
Time is irrelevant. You said your god is permanent so whichever god you’re referring to would be both part of the past and present. You also claimed your god is not supernatural, so that leaves out several, but he ( or she ) would need supernatural powers and abilities to be self existent and create the cosmos. So that puts them them back on the list.
Furthermore, since you claim there are at least two types of gods, natural and supernatural, there must be more than one.
You also said that, the god worshipped by Christians, muslins, and Jews , is not the same as your creator. That billions or people worship him. You’re the only one that has even mentioned this god. No one else has ever heard of him.
So, either you’ve been lying all this time. Or you’ve been trying to pass Yahweh/Jehovah/Allah/ Jesus off under a new identity. So that you could ignore “biblical Atheist” that know more about the subject than you.
You could have saved a lot of time if you had simply told everyone you’re a Christian.
Could it be, you don’t have any biblical evidence either ? And you were trying to hide your ignorance. It didn’t work.

@DocSavage

Hi DocSavage, you ask me: "Answer the question first. Why did your god create the universe ?"

Here is my answer why God created the universe, namely: because He wants to produce something as He loves to exercise His power, God is like an artist in mankind - we all humans notice that among ourselves there be persons with artistic talents, and they love to produce beautiful things - as the saying goes, Ars gratia artis (Latin - art for the sake of art i.e. beauty).














DocSavage · M
No. Google them
Answer the question first. Why did your god create the universe ?



DocSavage · M
Evolution takes thousands of generations and millions of years chuckles.there is no concise way to explain it.
Pick up a book. At least look at the pictures.
Besides, you still owe me the answer to my question. Why?
I gave you a proper use of “imply” and demonstrated how if fails to prove your god.
You owe me your reason for why god put so much time and effort into creation. So let’s hear it.
+ 0 · Reply · 21 hrs ago · Edit · · Edited: 19 hrs ago

Can’t be done by anyone at this time. Theories like quantum foam give a hint at the concept of nothing and the existence of matter. Abiogenesis a basis of the origin of life. Evolution, the diversity and progression of life. But you’re looking for a single primary cause for everything which can not be known.
You’re giving it human qualities, an agenda for creation, but all you end up doing looping back to the same problem. Your god requires an origin and a reason for its purpose. If the universe has no reason for existing, neither does a creator, ultimately . If he exist to create, then he exist as an agent for something with an agenda for creation. The same regression you gripe about.
Your god only moves the question back a step. Answers nothing. The flaw in your belief is you want to matter , you want your existence to count for something , rather than to be the result of what is. There doesn’t have to be a why. There just is.

@DocSavage


Hi DocSavage, I have answered your question to me,
Now it's your turn to answer my request that you give your definitions of abiogenesis and evolution, and please don't require me to google, because I need to know that you do have an idea of what is abiogenesis and evolution, every atheist worth his salt should have knowledge of abiogenesis and evolution, otherwise he is not genuine but fake.















yrger · 80-89, M
@DocSavage

Hi DocSavage, you ask me: "Answer the question first. Why did your god create the universe ?"

Here is my answer why God created the universe, namely: because He wants to produce something as He loves to exercise His power, God is like an artist in mankind - we all humans notice that among ourselves there be persons with artistic talents, and they love to produce beautiful things - as the saying goes, Ars gratia artis (Latin - art for the sake of art i.e. beauty).

@DocSavage
[@everyone in similarworlds-com]

I Yrger theist never made the following quote - I fear it is a fabrication of DocSavage.








DocSavage · M
Knew it

By God of nature I am referring to God as mankind can and does know Him to exist, by mankind's reason and intelligence.

And by God of supernature I am referring to God as Protestant Christians know Him to exist - by reading the Bible which holds the revelation of God by Himself, in particular of miracles He worked.

So, the natural man knows the God of nature by his natural reason and intelligence, while with the God of supernature Protestant Christians know Him to exist by revelabtion of God Himself by Himself, and recorded in the Bible.

Believers in the God of supernature expect God to work miracles, like commanding the sun (earth) to stop moving, while fans of the God of nature are happy that God created nature and is in control of nature.

As you can all see .yrger here claims there are at least two different gods. The god of the Christian, muslin, and Jewish faith. He believes his god, however is the actual true god. Above everything else.
Yrger is incapable of telling the truth, and sticking to his story. He will constantly change the subject and his story. Just now he stated there is only one god, his.
Even as an Atheist, I find this incredibly arrogant. And that’s saying a lot.

People need faith in something. Whether it is a deity or a concept. Sometimes that they believe is right. Or at least, right for them.

Far be it from me to say someone has a better idea.

@DocSavage


Hi DocSavage, I start with humans and end up with God the permanent self-existent creator and operator of everything that is not Himself.

Let me read how you start with humans and end up with what?

Please show unity and focus in your exposition, no matter that you don't want to be concise.

For example, you talk much words in the post below, but you end up without telling readers starting with me, what makes up an atheist.























DocSavage · M
That is the big difference between atheists and theists: Atheists start with nothingness, theists start with existence of the closest thing to mankind which is mankind itself, or for each individual person there is he or she the person that is closest to his/her self.
Wrong answer. There is only one thing that makes an Atheist an Atheist
And it has nothing to do with nothing.
It’s a common claim by theist, that Atheists believe in nothing, and something just came from nothing. Strange thing is, they have no problem with the idea god not only came from nothing, but with all the powers, abilities, and knowledge of creation. That billions of years both in our past, and in the future as well, are already planned out. All before creation itself started. Makes no sense at all.

@hartfire

Hi hartfire, you say: "Deep topics require deep and serious thought."

Okay, let us we two do a deep topic with deep and serious thought.


Please propose a deep topic.







hartfire
@yrger I think it might help you to understand that others will not comply will unreasonable requests.
This is not a topic for tweets, unless all you care about is fairy floss and trivia.
Deep topics require deep and serious thought.
If you are unable to read long tracts due to some form of dyslexia, Adult ADHD or dementia, then unfortunately that's your loss.
This is not a forum in which anyone has the right to boss others around or try to control their answers. If you try, others will either rebel or boycott you.

@DocSavage


I am still asking you: "what is your explanation for your existence?" I will read it and accept it if you ground it on reason and intelligence - even though you insist that you never care to explain, that is not acceptable to me, besides I would suspect very certainly that you don't have an explanation at all; or you are deficient in reason and intelligence.

At this point in our exchange I explain my existence though you don't accept it, but you don't or cannot explain your existence.


So, here is the fact: the theist explains his existence, the atheist does not explain his, though they are both humans with reason and intelligence.






DocSavage · M
What about you, DocSavage, what is your explanation for your existence?
I never said I would explain existence. You won’t listen to it in any case.nor did I say anything about the god adherence to Christianity, Muslims, or Jews. I was talking about “ the god as understood by yrger”
That’s the only one I heard of after 2023. All the others have a long history.
the permanent self-existent creator and operator of everything that is not Himself.
You’re so certain of your conclusions, are sure your convictions can stand up to a few questionable details, and logic ?
The default status of reality is existence.
Is it ?
The Devil is in the details.

@DocSavage

Hi DocSavage, you tell me, "The question of existence itself is self evident."

Thanks, so we are existing and everything that we talk about is existing in one way or another, no need to prove that nothing became something which is absolute absurdity.


Now, you continue with the categorical negative statement:
"Our existence doesn’t imply god’s."

I will put that negative statement from you on the shelf for the time being.


Please tell me what for you does our existence imply, and make it concise - please answer and abstain from bringing in a question to me, because then we would be going on and on and on and on with questions and more questions . . .







DocSavage · M
The question of existence itself is self evident. It’s the mechanism you’re arguing. Not the results.
Our existence doesn’t imply god’s.

Weak willed. Easily swayed.... There are many reasons

@DocSavage

Hi DocSavage, you tell me:
"Take apart a god from 2023, and do it using your own claims . It won’t be concise, but it will get the job done."


Okay, I take God of the present time 2023 adhered to by billions, namely, Christians - Muslims - Orthodox Jews to be the permanent self-existent creator and operator of everything that is not Himself.

I know from reason and intelligence that God exists, and He is the explanation ultimately of the existence of mankind like you and me.

What about you, DocSavage, what is your explanation for your existence?







yrger · 80-89, M
@DocSavage

Hi DocSavage, siriously and sincerely, what has God have to do with you as an atheist?

DocSavage · M
[@yrgersackofshit
I will tell you what. I will show you the Advantage of being an Atheist. Take apart a god from 2023, and do it using your own claims . It won’t be concise, but it will get the job done.
Not that I expect you to admit it. Like all theist, you have no respect for facts and logic.
Sound fair ?

You don’t expect me to just sit here and wait until you finish scraping out your depends , do you. ? I don’t think you’re supposed to reuse those things.
Finish one subject before you start the next, and stop evading the question.

DocSavage · M
Evolution takes thousands of generations and millions of years chuckles.there is no concise way to explain it.
Pick up a book. At least look at the pictures.
Besides, you still owe me the answer to my question. Why?
I gave you a proper use of “imply” and demonstrated how if fails to prove your god.
You owe me your reason for why god put so much time and effort into creation. So let’s hear it.
+

It's psychological talk. Religion is a nearly universal feature of people. All societies have something like that.

Why ? I’ve already discussed quantum foam , the Big Bang , abiogenesis, evolution and so on.
Each addresses a part of the whole of existence, from nothing to something , I doubt you would find anything under 50 words or less.
Like I keep saying, a single primary cause that you call god is just a cop out. You want a quick , simple , convenient answer . That’s why gods were invented in the first place. I told you that before too.

@DocSavage


Hi DocSavage. you say that we humans exist and we imply we exist?

That is not the meaning of the verb word to imply.


The verb word requires that a thing implies another thing, for example DocSavage implies the existence of his parents.







DocSavage · M
I’m here as always, I haven’t evaded anything or anyone. Who do you think you are, John Sunlight ?
I answered your last question. And this one.
It implies that we are here. Nothing more, nothing less.
Now, let’s see you answer a question. Why ?
Not how, not who, just answer why 42 went to all that trouble.
Then we’ll ask everyone , which of us is evading questions.

@DocSavage


1. Hi DocSavage, I Yrger am addressing you: you still have not yet told me what being an atheist means for you, no matter that you write so many many many many many words.

2. In my case I have told you nth times that I being theist means I know God exists, God the permanent self-existent creator and operator of everything that is not God Himself.

3. When you reply to num 1 above, please just tell me what it means for you to be an atheist, no need for you to talk about so many many many many things and end up without saying what it means for you to be an atheist.

4. Hi all readers here in similarworlds.com, take notice whether DocSavage will right away tell me what it means for him to be an atheist.

5. Or he will again talk and talk and talk and talk and talk and end up without ever telling me what it means for him to be an atheist.

6. Or he will state that I don't know how to read him etc etc etc etc and end up without telling me what it means for him to be an atheist.

@DocSavage


Let us keep to this topic, please don't stray from it.









yrger · 80-89, M
@DocSavage

Hi DocSavage, that is the most concise post you have ever made, thanks a lot.

DocSavage · M
Abiogenesis and evolution.
Stop evading the question.

I honestly don't know what question from you I am evading, so you and I are not linked on the question from you I am evading.

Let you and me then exchange thoughts on abiogenesis and evolution.


From stock information I know that abiogenesis and evolution are for atheists the explanation for the origin of mankind, no God needed.

Instead of God atheists posit inanimate material like say the dust particles in the air.

Dust particles given enough time will develop into ultimately into animate i.e. living things, then evolution brings forth varieties of living things, leading ultimately to mankind, the most perfect of living things.

Hi DocSavage, do I get you correctly?

Where did god come from ?
Was he created, or does he “self exist” with all his knowledge and abilities intact ?
Is there only one of his kind, or is he part of a race of such beings ?
What purpose does creation serve, as far as god plans ?
When did god begin creation ?
What was he doing before creation ?
Why is creation so large , are there other worlds with life. What are they like ?
Stopping at god, doesn’t answer any of the same questions we have without him. If there’s no differences, who needs him ?

Evolution takes thousands of generations and millions of years chuckles.there is no concise way to explain it.
Pick up a book. At least look at the pictures.
Besides, you still owe me the answer to my question. Why?
I gave you a proper use of “imply” and demonstrated how if fails to prove your god.
You owe me your reason for why god put so much time and effort into creation. So let’s hear it.

Wrong again chuckles, unlike you, the majority of us have ours inside our skulls, not below the belt line.
So, what about Zeus, Odin, Horus , Dagon, Anansi , Yahweh, etc. ?
If we’re going to show god exist, we’re going to have to decide exactly which gods don’t. You can’t prove one without taking into account the others.
After we finish reviewing the gods, then we can begin on the goddesses. Ishtar for example is one of my favorites.

No. Google them
Answer the question first. Why did your god create the universe ?



DocSavage · M
Evolution takes thousands of generations and millions of years chuckles.there is no concise way to explain it.
Pick up a book. At least look at the pictures.
Besides, you still owe me the answer to my question. Why?
I gave you a proper use of “imply” and demonstrated how if fails to prove your god.
You owe me your reason for why god put so much time and effort into creation. So let’s hear it.
+ 0 · Reply · 21 hrs ago · Edit · · Edited: 19 hrs ago

@DocSavage


Hi DocSavage, do you at all notice that you are arguing against God existing on an ad hoc* sinkhole fall, you have no logical intelligent system whatsoever.

In my case I have a rational logical intelligent system, namely:
1. I start with the fact and truth that we humans exist.
2. We did not bring outselves into existence.
3. Our parents brought us into existence.
4. Their parents brought them into existence.
5. And on and on until finally I face the fact and truth.
6. That there must exist a being that is the first cause.
7. And that being is God the permanent self-existent creator and operator of everything that is not Himself.
8. Therefore God exists and we are the evidence thereof.




*ad hoc

adverb
when necessary or needed.
"the group was constituted ad hoc"


created or done for a particular purpose as necessary.
"the discussions were on an ad hoc basis"

impromptu extempore extemporary extemporaneous
expedient
emergency
improvised
rough and ready
makeshift
make-do
cobbled together
thrown together
jury-rigged
quick and dirty
as the need arises
when necessary


Origin
Latin, literally ‘to this’.


(Google "ad hoc")

@DocSavage

Please name one specific theory and describe it in regard to how it explains our existence i.e. mankind.








DocSavage · M
There are other theories about creation, that don’t involve a living, self aware, immortal, entity as a primary source. Yet, they are within the laws of physics, and have measurable evidence.
Why accept a hypothesis that hasn’t got any of those things ?

Abiogenesis and evolution.
Stop evading the question.

@DocSavage

You ask: "Why stop at god ? "

Okay then, where do you want to stop at?








DocSavage · M
No, I will not agree with you, especially if you’re going to include your creator god in the package.
You’re no different from any other theist. One god, as the primary origin of everything and anything. Why ? Because you can’t come up with a concise, easy answer.
Why should we accept it, without questions. Why stop at god ? When it doesn’t explain anything ?

I exist, but my existence doesn’t imply or prove the existence of a god. There other things that serve as evidence if my own self awareness isn’t enough. You’re the one who gives god all the credit ( blame ) for all our history and reality.
Most religions, at least leave humanity with their individual identities and some form of independent will and morality.
You however are determined to force everything to conform to your idea of an omnipotent, omnipresent god. Who controls everything and everyone. All with no proof.

@DocSavage

Hi DocSavage, that is the most concise post you have ever made, thanks a lot.


I honestly don't know what question from you I am evading, so you and I are not linked on the question from you I am evading.

Let you and me then exchange thoughts on abiogenesis and evolution.


From stock information I know that abiogenesis and evolution are for atheists the explanation for the origin of mankind, no God needed.

Instead of God atheists posit inanimate material like say the dust particles in the air.

Dust particles given enough time will develop into ultimately into animate i.e. living things, then evolution brings forth varieties of living things, leading ultimately to mankind, the most perfect of living things.

Hi DocSavage, do I get you correctly?

@SW-User



You say:
"It really is a case of seeking how to exist rather than how we came to exist."

If I may add, we humans need our reason and intelligence in order to know the who, what, where, why, when, and how we exist.

If the Buddha does not possess reason and intelligence he will not talk except nonsense.






TelegramSam · 70-79
It really is a case of seeking how to exist rather than how we came to exist.

As the Buddha has said, beliefs and "views" on the how we came to exist, conclusions, simply preclude actually any finding of our own true time, path and place - and how to actualise such Reality.

So, now we’re an art project ?
So we don’t actually need him for anything anymore, do we ? As far as we’re concerned there is no difference between your god and the unguided, natural forces I mentioned. So, why believe in something that serves no purpose ? At least the mythical gods offer the illusion of an afterlife and salvation. Which answers your original question
You’ve got nothing , not even evidence.

It really is a case of seeking how to exist rather than how we came to exist.

As the Buddha has said, beliefs and "views" on the how we came to exist, conclusions, simply preclude actually any finding of our own true time, path and place - and how to actualise such Reality.

Because irrationality is emotionally comforting.

What part of Atheist don’t you understand ?
No god or gods “.”
Not concise enough for you ?

@DocSavage


Hi DocSavage, thanks for coming out with your declaration about what atheism means, but I want you to issue a personal proclamation to this effect:
"I DocSavage am an atheist: because I know God as understood by Yrger theist to not exist, and I can prove it."

Here is what I say about myself being theist:
"I am Yrger theist: because I know that God exists as the creator and operator of everything that is not God Himself and I can prove it."


So, I am going to wait to witness you DocSavage atheist make the personal declaration above.


Hi all people in similarworlds.com, the man DocSavage atheist will not ever make that personal proclamation, in which case we have to examine his psychology of adherence to atheistm - which is a psychology of retreat instead of advance.

@DocSavage


Hi DocSavage, forgive me but I don't seem to have read any public writings from you where you state:
"I’ve already explained that I exist. I can prove I exist if I have to."

Please do me the favor of explaining to me you exist and proving to me you exist.

I could use your method to explain to you I exist, and prove to you I exist.









DocSavage · M
No I don’t. I’ve already explained that I exist. I can prove I exist if I have to. That’s all I need. I don’t doubt it like you do.
The rest of your story is nonsense. You don’t even realize it.

Yet , if we accept your opinion, that’s exactly what happened, isn’t it ?
God formed or came into existence from a point before creation, fully developed with the ability to create, and a plan for creation spanning several billion years into time and a reality which hasn’t even begun to exist.. as I said. Your god doesn’t change or answer anything.