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Why do some people believe..... that you can't be a scientist and still believe in God ?

TinyViolins · 31-35, M
Quite frankly, there's a marketplace of gods. Einstein's views aligned more with Spinoza's God than anything promoted by religion, which definitely feeds confusion into the system. The overwhelming consensus on what God even is boils down to some anthropomorphized overseer, which many prominent scientists have spoken out against. Even Einstein thought that religion was basically a collection of fairy tales.

But to go back to the first point, God is a fairly personal topic which people interpret in a wide variety of ways. Science is considerably less subjective and focuses its efforts in finding objectively consistent answers. It's two very distinct patterns of thought applied to each topic.

People are pretty good at noticing inconsistencies. When we observe that one line of thinking is applied to one thing and a completely separate line is applied to another, it's almost intuitive to believe that both things are incompatible.

The truth is usually messy, and it's in this messy truth that we can understand that people can think about different things in different ways. You can be flexible enough to apply different standards of scrutiny as you see fit. It's not a zero-sum game that requires going all-or-nothing
usher · 41-45, F
@TinyViolins very interesting viewpoint
Sharon · F
Science deals with demonstrable facts and develops theories to explain evidence of how the universe works. Believing in mythical beings requires one abandon the scientific principle.
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FCNantes · 22-25, M
@CopperCicada Tbh, from the start I just wanted to know what was going on with that paragraph. I engaged with some of the other stuff because I'm interested in it. But I'm curious how you could've had a different meaning for that paragraph than the 1 I interpreted.
Science arose from the middle ages as an alternative to faith.

Its premise rests in Greek Logic.

Logic requires "proof", thus there is no room for faith.

This core principle makes it difficult for a person to "practice science" while harboring an over-riding belief in faith.

I do differentiate science from engineering

I do differentiate scientific measurement from research.

Thus, I suppose that an individual could work on measurement and applied science, call themselves a scientist and still have faith.
I never believed that...

I believe that science is another path towards God and one day it will help human understand the whole divine better(not only by heart but also by mind..)
Mindful · 56-60, F
@Soossie well said!
usher · 41-45, F
@Soossie I agree 100%
@usher

Thank you Nexus...
usher · 41-45, F
@newjaninev2 yes, i agree on what is describes as a personal God. But he did believe in a God for all. Even so there are many more scientists who believe in God, Charles Darwin, Carl Sagan and a few more
newjaninev2 · 56-60, F
@usher Sagan’s views mirrored Einstein’s, but were even more sceptical.

Darwin expressed his views in a letter to John Fordyce on 7 May 1879: "In my most extreme fluctuations I have never been an atheist in the sense of denying the existence of a God - I think that generally (and more and more so as I grow older) but not always, that an agnostic would be the most correct description of my state of mind.”

It seems that the personal views of individuals are of great interest to those who need to be directed by external authorities, but for science they have no merit, because science has no authorities... none whatsoever.
usher · 41-45, F
@newjaninev2 My question was not really on Einstein or Carl Sagan, but rather on how belief in both God and Science is unacceptable to some. This of course is the fulcrum of the question. No scientist in particular.
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reflectingmonkey · 51-55, M
I don't see the two as unreconcilable, much of the methodology and philosophy that became science comes from gnostics and alchimists who believed that all science brings you closer to god because by understanding his creation you understand god a bit more. I'm not saying that this is what I think just that its not completely impossible to believe and be a scientist. lets say, as a mental exercise, we were to take these two propositions as the truth: 1:god exists 2:he created the world. then all our observations would be interpreted in that context. what seems more of an impossible feat is to be a scientist and have a very specific idea of god. certainly there are contradictions between scientific findings and the bible and obviously the logical solution would be that the scientific observation is reliable, god still exists but the bible is wrong. in that way, being a christian who thinks the bible cannot be wrong is incompatible with science, and probably also prevents someone from actually finding god, if there is such a thing because if god exists then science IS the discovery of god.
reflectingmonkey · 51-55, M
@usher thank you, since I was a kid I truly wanted to know God and at some point I concluded that if god exists then the bible and christianity are certainly wrong and probably blasphemy. they portray god in a abominable way. it was obviouly made to trick people into submission. what kind of god requires that we worship him? how vain is that? what kind of god punishes people if they don't obey him? what kind of god would make all the descendants of someone pay for their sins? so much of it is an insult, its just projection of humans. humans what to subdue people, humans get angry, humans punish. if one truly wants to find god, if there is such a thing, it is certainly not with any abrahamic religion.
FCNantes · 22-25, M
@reflectingmonkey Or God's a dick.
usher · 41-45, F
@reflectingmonkey Good points
4meAndyou · F
My brother is a Paleontologist, and a devout Catholic. He has managed to reconcile evolutionary science with the bible in his own heart.
usher · 41-45, F
@4meAndyou I agree with him
Science fights against ignorance (lack of knowledge).
Religion fights against everything (including itself).
So end the end you have to either believe in what you can observe and test. Or believe in what you can't observe and test. That is the basis of why they are diametrically opposed as belief systems.
But the best outcome are those people that can hold conflicting beliefs without imploding. Those people are rare. Most people can't take the dissonance and mental stress.
usher · 41-45, F
@canusernamebemyusername Interesting yes. I suppose I fall into this opposing belief system, except that they are not opposing ideas to me at all. I suppose it's the same for Carl Sagan, Charles Darwin and so many others.
jackjjackson · 61-69, M
Regardless of anything the only way to discern the faith of another is to accept what another states.
BlueMetalChick · 26-30, F
A lot of people believe that science and religion are incompatible because the teachings of many religions are contradictory to the findings of science. That being said, most religious people aren't fundamentalists.
usher · 41-45, F
@BlueMetalChick ok. So the non-fundamentalists are the most likely to believe in both science and God ?
BlueMetalChick · 26-30, F
@usher I would say that's an accurate summation, yes.
usher · 41-45, F
@BlueMetalChick Thank you for your view.
FCNantes · 22-25, M
Because these people think believers of God're inherently illogical, therefore deducing that 1 can't believe in God if a scientist. Many of these people could do with a little more self-introspection.
usher · 41-45, F
@FCNantes very true
Doomflower · 36-40, M
"Don't believe every quotation you see on the internet."
-Abraham Lincoln
usher · 41-45, F
@Doomflower of course, and he could not have said that, true.
Softandsweet2 · 31-35, F
What I don’t understand is why people keep posting their religious or atheistic ideas. They will not convert anyone, they just cause more friction and spawn arguments. People are different - let it go.
JoeyFoxx · 51-55, M
@Softandsweet2 not all friction is bad

Not every argument needs to be vitriolic

I think we need to learn how to have respectful disagreements and debate, then end the day sharing a bottle of wine or beer (or whiskey)
Softandsweet2 · 31-35, F
@usher It’s the subject matter. Similar to politics, it’s nearly impossible to discuss these matters in a civil way unless those responding are neutral in their beliefs. I cannot see how anyone could reconcile the theories of creation and evolution. If I criticized you unjustly, I apologize for my remark.
usher · 41-45, F
@Softandsweet2 For me Evolution is part of creation. Simple
Thevy29 · 41-45, M
Stupidity. Same as most people who think you can only be faithful by going to church. When going to church doesn't make you any more faithful then standing in a garage makes you a car.
usher · 41-45, F
@Thevy29 But Einstein isn't stupid and he believe in God
DragonFruit · 61-69, M
@usher You needn’t argue with someone who’s agreeing with you....no “but” was required.
usher · 41-45, F
@DragonFruit who did I argue with ?
JoeyFoxx · 51-55, M
It’s a nice quote, but it’s removed from the context that the god that Einstein believed in is perhaps the least traditional notion of a god.

One thing is true on the Internet: if it’s a meme, only a fraction of the story is being told.
Sharon · F
@JoeyFoxx Whether on not a third party believes in the christian god depends on what one wishes to prove. Einstein is reported to have said "God doesn't play dice the universe" in respect of Quantum Theory*. Some christians claimed that proved he believed in their god. More recently, Stephen Hawking said that god did but threw them where we couldn't see them. Some christians claimed that proved he was a christian but when he died other christians gleefully announced that he was burning in Hell for being an Atheist.

The same dependency affects the size of the religion. Some christians like to boast about how many people are christians and claim it must be right because so many believe it. However, they often deny certain subgroups are "true christian" when including them is inconvenient for some reason. At least one christian here has claimed that Catholics are not really christians.



[c=#008099]*Despite not really accepting Quantum Theory, he had to make use of it for his work on the Photoelectric Effect, for which he won a Nobel Prize.
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usher · 41-45, F
@CopperCicada looking more for a opinion rather than a judgement. But ok, you seem to say it seems like both God and science are acceptable to some individuals.yes?
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