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FreeSpirit1 路 51-55, F
Yes you do, you're being disingenuous so you can stir the shit pot with Religious people.
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ViciDraco 路 36-40, M
@FreeSpirit1 Florida, in the United States
FreeSpirit1 路 51-55, F
@ViciDraco Which laws are being passed that worry you? I thought you were going to say some Muslim run country with religious nuts running things
ViciDraco 路 36-40, M
@FreeSpirit1 anti gay laws, laws that violate women's reproductive rights are the big ones today. They've already got special tax exemption for religion. Biblical law has stuff just as bad as Muslim law. Our society is just advanced enough to ignore them. But backsliding becomes a risk.
Sharon 路 F
You don't. If everything is predetermined, you have no power to change it. Luckily that quote comes from a book of myths and superstitions, it's all fiction, not to be taken seriously.
GodSpeed63 路 61-69, M
Not necessarily. He is all knowing which means, He knows from the beginning to end what will happen if mankind fell and if mankind didn't fall. Since the latter didn't happen, God made a plan to save mankind through His Son, Jesus Christ, by His Holy Spirit. Anyone who chooses to receive God's good gift of salvation will be saved.
GodSpeed63 路 61-69, M
Sharon 路 F
@GodSpeed63 No, you're lying. Denying that fact when the evidence is clear for eveyone to see just makes you look stupid as well as being a liar. Anyone who doubts I'm telling the truth when I say there is no member of this site called "yahweh" can easily check for themselves.
GodSpeed63 路 61-69, M
Coralmist 路 41-45, F
I feel the same way. Do we truly have free will. It's strange, I feel on one hand, we can SOMEWHAT choose things in life, but was it OUR choice???? say a person grows up very wealthy and can have their tuition all taken care of by parents at an Ivy League school. If they choose to go, that choice was there because of their foundation ALREADY, and their assets their parents had. Could I choose to go? No I have nothing compared to that. So if some one said to me, well you didn't choose a better path or a better this or that, it was not truly MY CHOOSING in life. You know what I mean? And then I wonder ARE our lives already determined? If so then there's surely no free will. One of my favorite author Byron Katie says, WE are not doing things, we are being done. (By source, universe) I liked that a lot.
ViciDraco 路 36-40, M
@Coralmist I am actually a determinist. I believe that we don't really have free will. We just don't have a high enough understanding of the inputs to predict the outcomes. But as biological machines we are still just reacting to our environments based on past stimuli. However, even the belief in free will is critical to how events deterministically play out.
PrivateHell 路 M
If you are truly interested, I can try to explain. But if all you (or others) want to do is argue and ridicule beliefs, I haven't got the time for that kind of nonsense.
@PrivateHell
But if i was always going to make that choice (because god couldn't be wrong about what i was going to choose) then was it really a choice? If the end is already known then what possibility is there to take a different choice?
I guess to me it's the foreknowledge of it that makes it seem like predetermination rather than a record of choices.
But if i was always going to make that choice (because god couldn't be wrong about what i was going to choose) then was it really a choice? If the end is already known then what possibility is there to take a different choice?
I guess to me it's the foreknowledge of it that makes it seem like predetermination rather than a record of choices.
PrivateHell 路 M
@Pikachu you are faced with option "A" or option "B". God knows you well enough to know that you will most likely choose "B", and He already knows that if you do "XYZ" will happen. But, if for some reason you choose option "A" then He knows that "ABC" will happen. Knowing all this doesn't mean you don't have a choice. It just means He already knows the outcome no matter what you decide.
I hope this helps. And thanks for remaining civil.
I hope this helps. And thanks for remaining civil.
I like this article. It sums up the conclusions I came to myself a while about about God not being able to have free will either.
http://www.vexen.co.uk/religion/god_has_no_free_will.html
http://www.vexen.co.uk/religion/god_has_no_free_will.html
@canusernamebemyusername
Hmm that's a very interesting perspective on it. I hadn't thought about it that way.
Hmm that's a very interesting perspective on it. I hadn't thought about it that way.
SatyrService 路 M
That you do not accept, the programming of the religious oppresors, is ultimately a better thiing
Mind what you say, thhey still burn witches by other means
Mind what you say, thhey still burn witches by other means
Pseudonym 路 26-30, M
I'd argue that a sufficiently complex universe, even if evolving through 'predetermined' states, is indistinguishable from a universe who's future states are not predetermined, assuming the future states are incalculable from within the closed system. In other words, it doesn't really matter.
@Pseudonym
Well i'd agree that you probably can't tell the difference and to many non-believers i can agree that it wouldn't make a difference.
But in the context of Christianity, free will is necessary because otherwise god is just a sadistic tyrant punishing creatures who never had any option to act other than they have.
Well i'd agree that you probably can't tell the difference and to many non-believers i can agree that it wouldn't make a difference.
But in the context of Christianity, free will is necessary because otherwise god is just a sadistic tyrant punishing creatures who never had any option to act other than they have.
This message was deleted by its author.
This message was deleted by its author.
@SpiritualMan
Well thanks, i try.
I guess for me it's the foreknowledge of the events of your life which makes it difficult to separate it from predestination.
Well thanks, i try.
I guess for me it's the foreknowledge of the events of your life which makes it difficult to separate it from predestination.
This message was deleted by its author.