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Is it wrong to remove Confederate statues?

Removing these monuments and statues seems like white washing the past to me. There have even been significant calls to tear down the statue of Christopher Columbus in New York because of the way he treated natives. Forgetting your past, no matter how dark it is, is not the way to deal with issues today. What do you think?
Pherick · 41-45, M
Its not forgetting your past. Its about not glorifying people who do not deserve it.

You are a traitor to your country and endorse slavery? Sorry, no statue for you. Tearing down Civil War statues will not make us forget the civil war.
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Pherick · 41-45, M
@CoxswainOtter Nope, all done waiting for you to say anything intelligent or even post ANYTHING to back up any of your ramblings, which you never will.

Have a great night.
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TexChik · F
[image deleted]It's completely wrong and is completely self serving . Libs stir up racial unrest then point the blame at statutes of dead democrats . Revisionist history is a dangerous game .
Pherick · 41-45, M
@QuixoticSoul Especially scary when you realize that textbook writers create textbooks based on what Texas wants since they are such a huge market :(
Xuan12 · 31-35, M
@Pherick And the content of textbooks is curiously approved by politicians, instead of subject matter experts.
@TexChik Thank you
Fernie · F
I think kids need to be taught the TRUTH!!!!!!!!! What these statues represent is hatred,lies, dark times and the slaughter of millions of people...kids are never taught the truth about America's ugly, genocidal past..by your words...you probably ARE one of those kids the truth was withheld from
@Adogslife Columbus didn't find the New World---unless you only consider all those people who'd already found it insignificant. Incidentally, how is it that you can hang onto Tawanna Brawley from almost 30 years ago but have no trouble forgiving that racist piece of crap Trump ?
Adogslife · 61-69, M
@bijouxbroussard truthful answer, I don't hold Sharpton against the black community. I just bring him up because he is so incredibly stupid that he amuses me. I really doubt anyone takes him seriously.
@Adogslife You'd be surprised at some of the things he's involved in that don't make the mainstream media, because they're so hostile towards him. He's fairly well regarded in the communities that he helps.
SW-User
It's not about tearing them down to me. The place that most of them are located is wrong. These statues are of people who took up ares against their country and killed hundreds of thousands of their countrymen in rebellion. These folks shouldn't have statues in places of honor. Relocate the to more appropriate environments. Confederate museums, confederate graveyards, historical battle sites. That's where they belong.
AceWarbringer · 36-40, M
This is probably the greatest mistake we can make. We are literally tearing down our history. Yes it was a terrible time. But those that do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

This terrible idea of political correctness is doing more to destroy our country then any race issue, any crime issue, or any political issue we have.
@Ridger And I've been trying to end the conversation. You're not the only one finding this frustrating. You asked the question about the American Civil war relics, did you not ? So bashing on about Germany when I used one limited analogy (the swastika) has been for your benefit, not mine.
@AceWarbringer So now you pipe up ? And I'm a troll because I don't agree with you ? Do you even know what the term means ? I've at least tried to be respectful in my disagreement with your insistence on celebrating something painful to many people.
AceWarbringer · 36-40, M
No you are a troll because you argue different points from your main. And gods above forbid anyone disagree. Lmao

I live in the northeast. I work with several people who have different skin tones from mine. And most of them share my view. Though I'm not one to put words into others mouths.

You are a troll, bijouxbroussard. Your entire set of responses is an Attack on those who dare disagree with you.

I've also read some of your responses before you changed them to something that makes anothers response look like a personal attack.

So yes. I have shut up.

I don't feed the troll.
There is no danger of it being forgotten. And this is why we have [b]museums[/b] and why history is supposed to be taught in our schools, anyway. Those statues were not erected to remind us of an evil, their purpose (as many appeared during the Civil Rights movement) was by segregationists attempting the reassertion of white supremacy---the same reason the marchers and alt-right groups are fighting to keep them up [b]today[/b].
The "white-washing" as you call it, is pretending that these were [b]heroes[/b] who deserve statues and memorials, rather than traitors who didn't [b]want[/b] to be a part of the U.S. if slavery was going to be abolished. Or, in the case of Columbus, someone who opened the door to genocide of an entire group of people.
Hitler is a part of history. But Germany at least has the decency not to still celebrate him.
jennypenny · 70-79, F
It is a typical liberal type of thing to try and do. These people are part of history and as long as we teach our children the darker side as well as the courage of people like Co.umbus, why should we deny history?
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Pherick · 41-45, M
@PixieCutLover If there was a chance I would wake up and read more about these inane conspiracy theories of yours I would. You take care ...
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unknownpoetx · 36-40, M
DO YOU SEE ANY STATUES OF HITLER IN GERMANY? why dafuk is so hard to understand?
Ridger · 26-30, F
@unknownpoetx To conclude, I must point out that you have yet to counter one of my points or explain your own. You claim that I deny the Holocaust and Civil War, yet when asked repeatedly to point out where I have done this you either ignore me or make the same claim again without any evidence. You have told me to go to the gas chambers and now you have called me a Nazi. It has to be said you have behaved childishly and you seem not to be able to defend your position so therefore I must assume that your argument is either wrong or nonexistent. Bye.
unknownpoetx · 36-40, M
to conclude you must go back to school and understand what happen throughout history before making yourself look stupid on internet
Ridger · 26-30, F
@unknownpoetx Again, you make an assault on my character rather than my position by implying that I am uneducated in history where in fact I have proved you wrong regarding statues in Germany and you have yet to prove me wrong on any of the points I have made. You tell me to go the gas chambers and then call me a Nazi. It seems to be you who is making a fool of yourself, not me. By the way, good job on ignoring me.
Picklebobble2 · 56-60, M
In what other society on earth, does a nation have a civil war and STILL ALLOW reminders to it's past in the form of MODERN DAY sculptures that only EMPHASIZE the fact that some folk CHOOSE not to move on ?
ravenwind43 · 51-55, F
I focus less on right or wrong and more on the fact that it is costly and a waste of time. A statue cannot be "racist" as it's an inanimate object made of organic materials. As you said, erasing history solves nothing. Once they finish with the statues they will start burning books they deem "bad." Things are going bad wrong with people in general.
ravenwind43 · 51-55, F
@Burnley123 The freedom I find in being a Libertarian is that I can listen to your opinion, chose to agree or not agree and move on from it without a qualm or a bitter word. The two party system is about constant squabbling that I want no part of. I can share my opinion and have that be it...I won't waste time arguing with people who are firm in their own beliefs:)
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@ravenwind43 I don't see removing the statues an infringement on freedom of speech but as a political choice by elected officials.

Nobody is banning the teaching of the Confederacy or debate about the topic. Statues displayed in public represent who is celebrated.
Fernie · F
@ravenwind43 that is ridiculous...what they symbolize is dispicable
I'm the sort of person who likes to get to root issues. I don't believe symbols have fixed meanings. So I don't think it's inherently wrong to either preserve or destroy Confederate images. We can preserve every one of them, and there will still be an element of our society who feels white people culture is being eroded. And we can melt them down and there will still be an element of our society who experiences racial violence. It won't change anything. After WW2 every scrap of Nazi shit was destroyed and *poof* they are having issues with neo-Nazis.

Personally I think we've long forgotten our past. If we hadn't, I think we'd be having a very different conversation about these statues. Our dialog wouldn't be pegged at either "white pride" and "slavery" but a whole bunch of other issues. Namely that these statues come from a few decades after Reconstruction when the whole mechanism of Jim Crow was being put into place. We wouldn't be talking about these statues as being reminders of slavery. We'd be looking at them as reminders of Jim Crow, especially with angry when men standing under them with torches. Quite honestly, these statues made it through Jim Crow, a couple world wars, the civil rights movement, and now I don't think anybody would be paying attention of some random pricks weren't trying to co-opt them.

So that's my 0.02. I'd rather just deal with the issues.
@CopperCicada Groups have protested against their existence throughout the decades and were largely ignored or only received a write-up in Ebony and Jet. So it wasn't like nobody cared.
Unbridled threats of destruction ... accompanied with excessive insults and unsubstantiable accusations about a large portion of American culture ... is wrong and harmful.

Those statues are cool ... the military genius of those generals is legendary.

The unthreatening nature of each .. is remarkable.

If the urban elite liberals want a fight.

They can have one ... let it start here!
@JP1119

But ... I will be on the side of the winners.

And it is your speculation, not knowledge, as to where all these evil people reside.

It is not your right nor job to approve the character of anybody, but yourself, to God.

All you are doing is tossing insults at the people in the 2,800 counties (of 3,100) that powered Trump to a win.

Election is over ... you lost

You will lose again, cause you have a hand with no high cards.

You are messing around with silly.

Pleasure to discuss.

We are done now
JP1119 · 36-40, M
@questionWeaver David Duke, white nationalist and former imperial wizard of the KKK, went to college and held elected office in Louisiana, as a Republican by the way. He ran for the US senate from Louisiana as recently as 2016. That's not speculation, that's fact. He praised Trump for his comments regarding the protests in Charlottesville, for blaming "both sides".

The Anti-Defamation League has a list of locations of KKK bases. The Bayou Knights of the KKK are prevalent in Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, and Louisiana. Knights of the KKK claims to be the largest Klan organization in America today, it's based in Zinc, Arkansas. Loyal Knights of the KKK is currently thought to be the largest KKK chapter, and it's based in North Carolina. The Southern Poverty Law Center keeps track of hate groups, and three of the states with the highest concentrations of them as of 2013 are Arkansas, Mississippi, and Tennessee. That should be proof enough that racism, though it also exists in the North, is alive and well in the South.

Saying that someone is a racist is not an insult nor is it judging them or their character, it's just calling a spade a spade.

The Civil War is over...you lost.

If there is a God in Heaven, you will lose again, ultimately.
Clearly I am your enemy ... you are not welcome where I live ... I do not like haters like yourself.

Bye
Northwest · M
It's silly to try to erase history, but it's even sillier, to pretend that the post re-construction, post Jim Crow laws, statues and monuments dedicated to the confederacy, are anything but wholesale attempts to re-introduce virtual slavery and discrimination against blacks, and have nothing to do with history. To remind them that even though they have official freedom, the Confederate "heroes" still control their lives.

The narrative that some people want to destroy history, or the attempt to create a false equivalency with the Taliban, should be real transparent.
SW-User
@Northwest Right on. Removing statues won't make everyone forget the civil war happened.
Fernie · F
@SW-User removing them means they won't be glorified!
SW-User
@Fernie Yes, that's my argument also. (See below)
SW-User
I don't think tearing down a statue is tearing down the past. The events still occurred with or without the statue. They serve as a monument to what is being depicted...not a historical account. Does a confederate statue bother me when I walk past it? I really don't give it a second glance. Can't say I get worked up enough to think I need to try knocking a statue down. But I do believe it stands as a tribute to a part of history that just doesn't really need to be glorified. It takes on even more meaning when you research the times most of the confederate statues were erected. Most went up in the same period that Jim Crowe laws were passed and later when the Civil Rights Act was passed. I don't really see them as history but as more of a statement.
SW-User
@Fernie To most I'd guess they don't mean a damn thing. It's all pretty ironic too. Take Robert E. Lee for example...if one read up his history and the kind of man history claimed him to be? A champion of healing the country after the war was said and done. He would have wanted his own statue taken down if he knew it created a divide.
@SW-User A descendant of Stonewall. Jackson said that while he wasn't ashamed of his family he was ashamed of what the statue had come to represent and felt things would be better off with it removed.
SW-User
@bijouxbroussard I can agree with that.
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Pherick · 41-45, M
@PixieCutLover uh-huh whatever you need to tell yourself to make it so you "won" this argument.
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unknownpoetx · 36-40, M
let me just resume this very quickly. THOSE STATUS ARE NOT MONUMENTS. learn their history. they were put up in the 60s during the civil right movements. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HISTORY OR CULTURE. it has just to do with hate and biggotry. so no it's not wrong. if you really comparing a columbus status to those ones then you should go back to school
JP1119 · 36-40, M
@unknownpoetx Columbus was responsible for the enslavement and deaths of many natives, his statue should come down too.
sogdianrock · 61-69, M
hi Ridger
good to remember and understand the past - in a museum. Statues are on pedestals to show off and admire the ideals they represent. So put good things in their place and put historical statues in a park where history can be taught properly. This si what they do with Stalin and Lenin statues in exUSSR countries.
best wishes
:)
496sbc · 36-40, M
Next thing they will be removing us from the states. To let illegals have our houses. Ohh wait thats already happening
Pherick · 41-45, M
@496sbc I am not even sure what you just typed was actual English. I know immigrants that speak better English.

Anyway, you claimed [quote]"Next thing they will be removing us from the states. To let illegals have our houses. Ohh wait thats already happening"[/quote]

Just love to see you post some evidence that is happening.
496sbc · 36-40, M
@Pherick ohh your going to knock me now fuck you bro. Dip shit asshat. Prove this 🖕
Pherick · 41-45, M
@496sbc That's what I thought! Good try though. Come back when you have something better than just talking out your ass.
Adogslife · 61-69, M
He treated the natives? I don't recall good ole CC having much to do with our fights with the Indians.

I forget. Was he at Little Bighorn? Wounded Knee? The Seminole Wars? Did he push the Indians to their current reservations?

Can we keep the statues IF we toss the Indians a few more casinos to make hundreds of millions from?

Stupid ass party waste liberal mother fuckers.

The Kennedys are founded from dirty money. They've even got a couple murders on their hands. Do you think they should be on our money?
GunSmoke9 · 56-60, M
@bijouxbroussard I also didn't like the there are good people on both sides bull. He also made it clear a number of times that hate won't be tolerated from either side.
Ok Trump was late. Late is sometimes better than never. When BLM was chanting about killing cops, and cops were and still being killed where was Obama, other democrats, the media? When lefty thugs were using violence to stop conservatives from speaking where was the left?
GunSmoke9 · 56-60, M
@Northwest What we can do is speak out against hate groups no matter what side of the aisle they stand on.
@GunSmoke9 You mean when Obama said the statue of Nat Turner needed to stay up because it was "beautiful and heroic" ? Oh wait...there was no statue of Nat Turner to keep standing. At least Obama did denounce the murder of police, without hesitation. Trump [b]pardoned[/b] a racist profiling sheriff. That's why we know you conservatives are racists, by the way. You compare apples to oranges and make excuses for your supremacists. BLM is not leftist which you would know if you didn't lump everybody who's black and angry in one organization.
If you like being ignorant of the United States of America and its heritage and history then in my book go ahead and be a dumbass and not know your history of how you got to be where you are in AMERICA
Pherick · 41-45, M
@oldtruckerc1 That is quite ironic.
GunSmoke9 · 56-60, M
Removing statues should be left to the communities. What I worry about is how far will this go? People are talking about Christopher Columbus, Mt. Rushmore. What's next? Banning books, the constitution, the American flag?
Even a white horse used as a mascot at USC, I believe is being called racist. Wait for the loony left to try to force conservative talk radio off the air, claiming that same lie.
@GunSmoke9 We can start with the folks who [i]lost[/i]. Do we have anything else up celebrating enemy combatants ? It's not that complicated, especially when you consider that many were erected during the Civil Rights era by segregationists. That's why the racist right is fighting so hard to keep them. Why not put them in a museum ? That would resolve any concerns about "forgetting history".
GunSmoke9 · 56-60, M
@bijouxbroussard Let the community decide. They should not be destroyed by vandalism. Though I do love watching some idiot kicking a thousand pound plus statue with sneakers.
@GunSmoke9 Part of being a community in the United States means an allegiance to the United States. We don't celebrate the enemy combatants from any other wars or conflicts.
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@shyuncut4u No, in the history books and museums are where it belongs. Not on state buildings or public property.
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@shyuncut4u Not representing the [b]government[/b].
irishwonder1973 · 51-55, M
I think these monuments should be left up as they are telling history.Those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it.
irishwonder1973 · 51-55, M
@bijouxbroussard Don't get me wrong,I think the IRA are terrorists now I don't support them as they are.Im agreeing with you on this one.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@TexChik [quote] revisionist history is learned from books[/quote]

Surely you ultra-right cranks have some books too and it can't be all about meme based communication?
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@irishwonder1973 You obviously have sympathies with peaceful Irish Republicanism, as do I (even though I'm a Brit LOL). I have what I think is a good analogy.

The statues in Southern USA were built during Jim Crow to celebrate the Confederacy. Now imagine if the Brits had built statues of Oliver Cromwell in Irish Cities circa 1900. Imagine if they still existed until the present day.

They would have been built as symbols of British domination and imperialism. Irish people would want to remember the history but would not want statues of a historic oppressor and quite right too.
GoodoldBob · 61-69, M
It is not wrong to take them down, but it is not wrong to leave them up either. I agree with you that hiding history won't change it or make things any better.
Fernie · F
@GoodoldBob yep...white boy
GoodoldBob · 61-69, M
@Fernie Thank you for so elegantly proving my point.
@GoodoldBob You're guilty of insensitivity.
I imagine for the most part it does not matter, in places where they have taken them down it did not solve any problems if anything it widened divisions and created a platform for confrontation. The people who were unhappy with the statues were still unhappy.
PetermatureUK2 · 56-60, M
It's an easy gesture and will make some people feel better, I suppose, but I don't think it will genuinely help with race relations or heal wounds.
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The folks who fought for the right to continue owning other human beings in a supposedly [b]free[/b] country are [b]bad[/b].
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@shyuncut4u History belongs in museums. Most of these were erected not during the Civil War but during the Civil Rights era by segregationists. The people marching to protect them have been white supremacists. Racism is what they want to continue, and if these stay up, it will.
SW-User
I totally agree. You can’t erase the past, you can only learn from it for the future. It’s been like was 150+ years now? Let it go and move on already.
ImIndian · 26-30, M
Yes..you are write.
We should not remove these statues.. They show us our past and our ancestors great explore places and many things.
We come to know all of our past things only with the help of these things..
I'm against the removal of such satues.

AMD i m happy that You think in this way..It's very rare nowadays to find person who really talk about our society and about our golden era of culture and monuments.It's really Mandatory to protect these things....👍👍👍
QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
@ImIndian Golden age of culture and monuments!

[youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyEThSM4JnI]

Omg I'm fucking dying.
sighmeupforthat · 46-50, M
silly egotism.. stupid possessive habit that takes away from the real issues in our lives.

that's history.. that's it. here i'm a mestizo saying this.

so the fuck what.. to me it was just learning history of one portion of many other histories oh and a afternoon trek then lunch. somewhat one of many traditions.

just one of many. eh.

don't we got healthcare? social security? overspending and job cuts to worry about .. say for one tier of constant issues pillaging us to death?

the problems aren't the statues... the problems are these people who must make every freaking thing political and what for actually? will this resolve our equality issues?

fuck no.

but i guess ending up on news and partying it out fighting each other until someone gets murdered is better.

this sociopathy has always struck a blow in progress.
@SW-User

Really ... based on what? ... CNN?

The only thing being unified is the outage of 160mm southeners, westerners and rural inhabitants of the 2,800 counties Trump won.

The outage and unification against this weenie urban elite liberal statue assault is way more than any mythical fascist revial.

Way more!

Common sense tells you there is no "fascist revival" ... there is zero evidence of it.

Zero ... none

Yet, a few statues fall ... meak youngsters kick some statue to get on Cable ... that is mob revival.

You lost my entire respect
SW-User
@questionWeaver
Somehow i'll have to find a way to keep on living.
Alas ... another blocked political troll ... so sad
Antoniuspoe · 51-55, M
It makes less sense to have a statue of a Confederate Soldier up than it would to have a statue of Hitler up. Confederates were traitors to the country and the President was actually planning on charging him with treason had Grant not threatened to resign in protest.
This post is regurgitated nonsense.
Ridger · 26-30, F
@DarlingSelah How so?
I believe they all should stay
SW-User
I think, "Where will all the madness end?" Sad days we live in. They can tear them down and destroy them, whatever they think they should do, but It WILL NEVER ERASE HISTORY! People have lost their minds! :(
Northwest · M
@SW-User History has been erased and replaced with alternative reality, for some people. Not all of these statues, and not even a small portion, is actual history.

They are symbols of hate, erected decades after the facts, in non-historically significant places, as accessories to the Jim Crow laws that kept the black population virtually enslaved.

I guess it's all in the perspective. I mean, Jim Crow laws were never a problem for whites.
I see this is an old topic so apologies if someone pointed this out but Christopher Columbus never stood foot in the US. Why you have a statue, day or anything else dedicated to someone with no connection to your nation is beyond me
SW-User
I have an unpopular opinion about that and see no reason to ruin this lovely evening by fighting with folks again today...😁
@SW-User Uh, oh...😕
SW-User
@questionWeaver I am going to just pass this time on commenting...another day...who knows?
SW-User
@bijouxbroussard ...I just am going to roll along in my happy bubble for today. :)
Fernie · F
Yeah! and the Witches here in Salem, MA are still pissed off at the statue of "Samantha" from Bewitched in the middle if town and want it taken down...for real. I'm with them
Newandimproved · 61-69, M
Interesting point. But really does anyone really look at a statue? I used to live in the d.c. area in the u.s.
Plenty of monuments to the presidents but other than a means of selling soveigneirs they are largely unnoticed.
Newandimproved · 61-69, M
@Fernie I don't disagree that they are offensive to some. At that point there is a process in place to redress those grievances. They have a right to be heard by the government. If it is determined that their point is valid and just, then the statues will come down.

My point still is, most wont care whether they are up or not.
Fernie · F
@Newandimproved "some" waaaaay more than some
Newandimproved · 61-69, M
@Fernie also agreed.
Dadbod52 · 56-60, M
what about the Ralph Cramden statue at the Port Authority? He threatened to hit Alice "To the moon".
Northwest · M
Only if you're a trump supporter who believes TV is history @Dadbod52
Xuan12 · 31-35, M
By this time, many of them have been around so long as to become cultural artifacts. If they had been removed long ago it might be different, but that's not the case. I think the best solution would have been to place them in museums or in a monument park in order to preserve the value they've come to have, without leaving them in a myriad of public places where to many they are troublesome. Neither side seems to think that's an option though.
QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
@Xuan12 They're really not that old. The one in Charlottesville is from the 1920s. They're fairly ahistorical as is.
Terrance · 41-45, M
We should try not to measure the past with the present as it will never measure up
Khenpal1 · M
people get crazy about monuments like it was something religious
Historical record suggests Columbus treated EVERYONE terribly, even his crew! Written accounts describe him as "hot tempered and hard to work with" most people don't know this, but he marooned more crewmen than most pirates!
luckranger71 · 51-55, M
No, it’s not wrong.
Historical record sguests Columbus treated EVERYONE terribly. Even his crew! Most people don't know this, but he marooned more crewmen than most pirates!
HKowned · F
If you want to remember the 'dark' past and want to keep the monuments up, should african americans get reparations for slavery?
Tukudo · 41-45, M
Good morning 🌅

 
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