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I think the vast majority of homeless people are lost causes

Full distinction, this isn't to say that they deserve to be homeless. Some do, for sure, but for the majority there are circumstances that makes it exorbitantly difficult and costly to integrate them into general society.

As someone that likes data and statistics as much as I do, I don't really have much of an empirical argument here. This is mostly based on my own observations and on the testimony of others that have direct experience working with or adjacent to the visibly homeless, as well as those who have been homeless themselves.

For many compassionate, well-meaning, civilized people, it's easy to think that the homeless are largely comprised of those who are down on their luck or lost their homes or jobs and are unhoused purely for economic reasons. Those types undoubtedly exist, but from what I've gathered it's a relatively small segment of the larger population.

Not that I'm not particularly fond of generalizing such a large group of people, especially with regards to this topic, because it's fraught with an assortment of heart-wrenching cases of children, those aged out of foster homes, those escaping abuse, those kicked out for being gay or trans, or those who are physically unable to work due to disability. I'm not proposing to institutionalize or otherwise abandon such vulnerable people that probably just need a little help.

My main argument is based on the reality that a large majority of homeless people are either severely mentally ill or dealing with substance abuse addictions. And I don't say this to dehumanize them. In many instances there are traumatic events or abusive/neglectful childhoods that pushed these people to this life. At some point in their upbringing, these people were faced with issues they simply couldn't cope with, and it made their problems progressively worse.

Many have issues with emotional reactivity or poor impulse control or problems with authority in general because of how they were raised. They may not able to quite grasp they full extent of their actions and have more likely than not burned through many jobs and relationships on their way to the streets. It's difficult to say how many of them are victims of their own actions and how many just never really had a fair chance at life. For what it's worth I do believe there's a tragic chain of causality behind their problems, but what exactly to do about it is the more pressing matter.

In some cases, a little housing stability and job opportunities are all people really need to get going in life and find their way to greener pastures. I'm not opposed at all to solutions that help those best able to get on their feet. It's the much broader segment of the population that needs years and years of therapy just for the vague hope that all of their toxic thought patterns can be rewired and reworked into constructive ones. I just don't believe that it's really possible in the majority of cases.

We know from inmate statistics that there is an extremely high rate of recidivism among those convicted of crimes. Even after enduring years enclosed in concrete and iron with the dregs of society, around 70% end up getting re-arrested within 5 years according to DOJ statistics. If there was a 7 in 10 chance that a criminal would commit another crime upon release, no sane person would advocate for letting them out again. It's just not fair or safe for the rest of society to push this person's problems on everyone else.

That said, I do think it's important to at least think about the 30% that stay clean, like what specific factors contribute to their success and how can it best be replicated. Likewise, it's important to identify what can realistically help the long-term homeless find their way to self-sufficiency.

But the strategies that we have now in the US to address homelessness are incredibly inefficient and in some cases may be making the problems worse. For all the billions that keep being spent on homelessness, there's been very little progress made, if any. While we do want to be humane and empathetic to people who live such rough and brutish lives, we should also be realistic and at least try to figure out just how much money and resources is it going to take to get exactly where we want to go. Because so far, no matter how much money gets allocated towards homeless services, it never seems to be more than a bandaid on a gaping wound.

And perhaps the issue is that there just isn't enough money and manpower being thrown at the problem to properly address it, my personal belief is that you just can't save people who refuse to try to save themselves.
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kodiac · 22-25, M
Having been one of those who became homeless after aging out of foster care many kids raised in foster are not equipped to function in society. For me on my 18th birthday i walked out of my final placement with absolutely nothing . For 14 years my life was controlled by an extremely broken system. Making decisions on my own was a skill didn't have. I know climate plays a big part in homelessness ,it's a whole different thing being homeless in la than it is in Pittsburgh .i found all the kinds of people mentioned in the op ,in my case i did drugs before being homeless so i can't blame addiction on that . There is a certain number of people who actually choose the street life ,they don't want anything different, also lots of people hiding from lots of things ,police families, abusers . I did find a kind of camaraderie among some homeless, people who would share what little they could scrounge or panhandle, or watch over homeless kids keeping us safe while we slept. Of course there were the completely insane who should not be roaming around free. The pimps and chicken hawks praying on homeless kids .i know my case is not even remotely close to normal and very rarely happens but i met someone that offered me a chance ,a way out of the cycle . That was 5 years ago I'm clean and sober . I don't think there is a way to solve the homeless problem.
kodiac · 22-25, M
@Adrift Yup having to choose homeless is not an easy thing .evry time i ran from a foster home eventually I'd get caught and dragged back into the system
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kodiac · 22-25, M
@Adrift Sadly it happens a lot
HiFiRaver · 18-21, M
There are certainly homeless people who can’t be helped. There are those with severe mental illness who can’t hold down a job and thus have no ability to afford housing. But I think homelessness as an issue varies depending on the locale. Here it’s not a mystery why homelessness increased significantly as housing prices went up. There were always those who were homeless because of illness or drugs. But now we’re seeing more people living in cars and RVs simply because it is too expensive to afford rent. That kind of homelessness is more addressable than trying to create a stable life for someone with severe mental illness (not that we shouldn’t try to).

Re. drugs, one factor that’s often not mentioned when discussing homelessness is that many people become addicts after becoming homeless, due to the availability of drugs on the street and the overall nihilism that being homeless brings. So we can’t always assume that an addict is homeless because of their addiction; it’s possible their addiction started only after losing their place to live.

One thing’s for sure around here: there needs to be more housing and it needs to be more affordable. New luxury apartments being built that cost $3800 a month to rent (much of the new construction I see in my city) isn’t going to help.
TinyViolins · 31-35, M
@HiFiRaver Oftentimes a community offers homeless people bus tickets out of town in order to "deal" with the issue

The flipside to this is that now these homeless people are in cities where they end up feeling lost and alone and may turn to drugs or the homeless lifestyle in order to cope with their situation
whowasthatmaskedman · 70-79, M
On the surface of it, I have to agree with what you say, in many cases. So clearly, as the problen is intractable once it gets to that level, the answer is to intervene before those people sink that far into thesystem.
Some are Vets who have served and returned physically or mentally damaged and the VA system has failed them. Some are victims of abuse, who have turned to drugs. Some are victims of crime, poor choices or other conditions that mean they fall through the cracks.. So society needs to step jup and be there to prevent them falling through the cracks in the first place.. (Like thats ever going to happen)😷
badminton · 61-69, MVIP
i can well remember there was practically no homelessness before Reagan in the 1980's. Of course there were some drifters and winos on skid row. But no large, long term homeless population. It was a shock to me to see big homeless encampments in America.
Justmeraeagain · 56-60, F
@badminton During Reagan's time a lot of the institutions that used to house the mentally ill where closed down and inclusion was introduced.
I'm not saying the institutions were a good thing -I'm just saying the results of closing them caused a surge in the number of homeless people.
TinyViolins · 31-35, M
@badminton He practically ended mental institutions in 1981, which was not the only nail in the coffin, but probably the most detrimental. It paved the way for the problem we have now. Throw in some drug epidemics and rising rents, and you're looking at something too big to solve
Adrift · 61-69, F
@badminton Not true. I remember as a kid going to cities like San Francisco and seeing people sleeping in dooways and in alleys and eating out of garbage cans.
Homelessness has been around in the US as far back as the great depression.
friendlykinkster · 56-60, M
Homelessness is a complex issue. There are those who are homeless due to falling on hard times and have the potential to dig out.
There are those whom society has failed and suffer from mental illness and have little to no chance to better their circumstances.
There are also a huge group of people who choose homelessness as a lifestyle. Their future is up to them.
That is one massive assumption to make.

Oh and half a million in the US are combat vets and another 1.5 million are at risk of becoming homeless.

That is more than the entire US Army active duty members.

And we'll the country that broke them in the first place owe them more than platitudes.
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Starcrossed · 41-45, F
There's a lot of untreated mental health issues in the homeless population, it's very sad. 😔
TinyViolins · 31-35, M
@Starcrossed My girlfriend's brother is a bipolar schizophrenic fentanyl addict that refuses to take his medication because he doesn't like feeling controlled. But he'll still take as much as he can from his disabled mom because he'd rather be homeless than work for a living
Besides that maintaining a certain amount of unhoused is absolutely economic and a feature, not a big under capitalism.

And comparing them to inmates is problematic and also a completely unrelated issue.

Recidivism is high in the US because it is literally designed that way because incarceration is a billion dollars industry.
@TinyViolins And as for claims homeless people "commit more crime" well there are plenty of places where being homeless is criminalized so that is a goofy claim. The crimes most associated with homeless people beyond just existing is crimes of survival like property crime, squatting and theft,.

Whereas they are much more likely to be victims of violent crime from assault to murder.

Squatting in an abandoned building is hardly comparable to murder.
@TinyViolins Addiction is also a medical condition and what is a "drug" and what addictions are illegal are completely arbitrary so again that is mostly an excuse to perpetrate stereotypes and stigmas.
TinyViolins · 31-35, M
@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow I think you're choosing to see only what you want to see. I explicitly stated in my original post that my argument is not empirical, and that's because statistics generalize an entire population and I don't want to generalize such a diverse population. I only wanted to focus on a specific segment of it. Most data doesn't properly disaggregate addicts and the severely mentally ill from the rest of the dataset.

But I will give you some data since you seem to be lacking yourself. 24% of homeless have a felony conviction as opposed to 8% of the general population. Felonies are typically for violent crimes.

In NYC, the homeless mentally ill are 35x more likely to commit a crime than the rest of the mentally ill. In LA, homeless are only 1% of the population, but accused in up to 8% of crime and 15% of violent crime. In San Diego, the homeless are 514x more likely to be charged with a crime than the rest of the population.

You can't just sweep this issue under the rug because you want to be empathetic. We also have to be realistic.

I already stated that they are disproportionately likely to be victims of crimes themselves, so we can both agree there. I will ask you this: who do you think are the people committing these crimes against them?
Rolexeo · 26-30, M
We like to think people can just be fixed and many can be but others are hopeless for one reason or another. It doesn't matter how much education and opportunities or even money you throw at the problem. Most lottery winners blow it all after a few years and are back to square one.
The mental illness problem is due to RWR.
TinyViolins · 31-35, M
@SomeMichGuy Yeah, he does bear some of the blame for sure, but mental institutions were being phased out for a while before he put the final nail in the coffin.

According to some posters here, there were visible homeless long before Reagan, so it's not clear exactly how much he really contributed to the problem, but it's a complex issue. He certainly didn't help, that's for sure
@TinyViolins Those posters should look up what he did. It closed huge mental hospitals.

It might be news to persons your age, but it is not to persons my age.
TinyViolins · 31-35, M
@SomeMichGuy I believe they all referenced it, and so did I. But I was just digging into it and it seems like deinstitutionalization was happening since the 1950s, and certain states started pushing for it in the 60s. He does deserve some blame, but it's inaccurate to place all of it on him
GeistInTheMachine · 31-35, M
Humanity is a lost cause. You are an example why.
TinyViolins · 31-35, M
@GeistInTheMachine
Humanity is a lost cause.
That is cognitive dissonance on a whole other level. You say something far more damning than I do and then try to claim the moral high ground. You say it like you're not part of humanity.

 
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