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I think the vast majority of homeless people are lost causes

Full distinction, this isn't to say that they deserve to be homeless. Some do, for sure, but for the majority there are circumstances that makes it exorbitantly difficult and costly to integrate them into general society.

As someone that likes data and statistics as much as I do, I don't really have much of an empirical argument here. This is mostly based on my own observations and on the testimony of others that have direct experience working with or adjacent to the visibly homeless, as well as those who have been homeless themselves.

For many compassionate, well-meaning, civilized people, it's easy to think that the homeless are largely comprised of those who are down on their luck or lost their homes or jobs and are unhoused purely for economic reasons. Those types undoubtedly exist, but from what I've gathered it's a relatively small segment of the larger population.

Not that I'm not particularly fond of generalizing such a large group of people, especially with regards to this topic, because it's fraught with an assortment of heart-wrenching cases of children, those aged out of foster homes, those escaping abuse, those kicked out for being gay or trans, or those who are physically unable to work due to disability. I'm not proposing to institutionalize or otherwise abandon such vulnerable people that probably just need a little help.

My main argument is based on the reality that a large majority of homeless people are either severely mentally ill or dealing with substance abuse addictions. And I don't say this to dehumanize them. In many instances there are traumatic events or abusive/neglectful childhoods that pushed these people to this life. At some point in their upbringing, these people were faced with issues they simply couldn't cope with, and it made their problems progressively worse.

Many have issues with emotional reactivity or poor impulse control or problems with authority in general because of how they were raised. They may not able to quite grasp they full extent of their actions and have more likely than not burned through many jobs and relationships on their way to the streets. It's difficult to say how many of them are victims of their own actions and how many just never really had a fair chance at life. For what it's worth I do believe there's a tragic chain of causality behind their problems, but what exactly to do about it is the more pressing matter.

In some cases, a little housing stability and job opportunities are all people really need to get going in life and find their way to greener pastures. I'm not opposed at all to solutions that help those best able to get on their feet. It's the much broader segment of the population that needs years and years of therapy just for the vague hope that all of their toxic thought patterns can be rewired and reworked into constructive ones. I just don't believe that it's really possible in the majority of cases.

We know from inmate statistics that there is an extremely high rate of recidivism among those convicted of crimes. Even after enduring years enclosed in concrete and iron with the dregs of society, around 70% end up getting re-arrested within 5 years according to DOJ statistics. If there was a 7 in 10 chance that a criminal would commit another crime upon release, no sane person would advocate for letting them out again. It's just not fair or safe for the rest of society to push this person's problems on everyone else.

That said, I do think it's important to at least think about the 30% that stay clean, like what specific factors contribute to their success and how can it best be replicated. Likewise, it's important to identify what can realistically help the long-term homeless find their way to self-sufficiency.

But the strategies that we have now in the US to address homelessness are incredibly inefficient and in some cases may be making the problems worse. For all the billions that keep being spent on homelessness, there's been very little progress made, if any. While we do want to be humane and empathetic to people who live such rough and brutish lives, we should also be realistic and at least try to figure out just how much money and resources is it going to take to get exactly where we want to go. Because so far, no matter how much money gets allocated towards homeless services, it never seems to be more than a bandaid on a gaping wound.

And perhaps the issue is that there just isn't enough money and manpower being thrown at the problem to properly address it, my personal belief is that you just can't save people who refuse to try to save themselves.
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MethDozer · M
Mental illness. Addiction, and a history of trauma doesnt make someone unable to have a home if we accept the fact a place to live as a basic human right and allow them place to live.

The issue is unsolvable because our system of capital greed wont accept any solutions because..... No exploitable profit
TinyViolins · 31-35, M
@MethDozer Yeah, it does make you wonder if people will have any incentive to work or contribute to society if they were given free, unconditional housing. I don't know the answer to that, but I can't imagine many retail or customer service jobs existing if people didn't have bills to pay. Who the hell wants to deal with people all day?
MethDozer · M
@TinyViolins By paying fair wages instead of relying on pure desperation
TinyViolins · 31-35, M
@MethDozer I'm all for better wages. I just don't see much of a desire for people to do difficult work if housing is given to people unconditionally. Lots of people have jobs and are still too lazy to do the work
MethDozer · M
@TinyViolins we're ralking about rhe mentally ill here, not the able bodied.

Also thays nonsense. The idea peoplw will do anh work is if we choose to hang basic survival over there heads is absurd and easily disproven. Alaska for example gets a UBI in the form of dividends and has below average unemployment and some of the highest participation rates in part time and minimum wage jobs.

This is tue richest country in the world, the fact Billionaires exists next to one of the largest homeless populations in the developed world is a shame and tragedy. Nobody actually does enough work to justify a billion dollars. Our capitlist society with all its wealth chooses to deny the many of basic needs, so a few can have their frivilous wants. It's beyound disgusting what we value as a society and culture
TinyViolins · 31-35, M
@MethDozer There's also addicts and people who just don't want to answer to anyone, the voluntarily homeless.

Alaska only gets around $2 grand a year in dividends, which is nowhere near enough to live on.

Nobody actually does enough work to justify a billion dollars

Spot on. If someone made $5 grand a day, every single day, from the time Christopher Columbus set sail for the New World, they wouldn't even have $1 billion

Nobody earns that much money. They only get it through exploitation
MethDozer · M
@TinyViolins
Alaska only gets around $2 grand a year in dividends, which is nowhere near enough to live on.


No, but it covers some rent, and in turn encourages people to take on lower paying jobs instead of doing nothing but collevt welfare. Why? Because it helps them get ahead. People complain "nobody wants to work anymore?" No nitwits they refuse to work to just be broke anyway.



There's also addicts and people who just don't want to answer to anyone,
addiction is a mental illness, its tied together and desperation only encourages addiction. Very few, excedingly few, inconsequentially few are " voluntarily homeless.


You're just playing into the capitalist lying to yourself to feel better about treating people like disposable trash as capitalism does.
There's honestly no justification for the homelsss population in this country other than greed.
TinyViolins · 31-35, M
@MethDozer Homeless exist in every country, rich and poor alike. It's been that way since before capitalism.

I do think the excesses of capitalism absolutely do contribute to and exacerbate the problem, I don't know that providing free, unconditional housing is the answer.

People also have to learn to pull their weight. Otherwise we'd have some people doing all the work and most doing nothing. Same things happens in jobs where everybody gets paid the same by the hour. Some sit around being lazy and others are literally doing other people's jobs for them.

There has to be incentives to work regardless of the broader economic system. If we start treating housing and food as guaranteed rights, you're just creating a nanny state where people will want to sit at home all day.

I do think that addiction is mostly a by-product of the race to provide workers as little as possible, but people also have to want to put in the work of bettering themselves. Having all your needs provided to you really kills motivation. Just look at any spoiled Karen that expects everyone to cater to her. She wasn't born that way. She learned it from never having to roll up her sleeves