Do you think the former nurse Lucy Letby is an Atheist or do you think she believes in God?
Why/why not?
22-25, F
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@JSul3 [quote]those fine Christians who lynched hundreds of blacks.[/quote]
You can't prove Christians are the ones who lynched hundreds of blacks. We know the Ku Klux Klan, the oldest hate group in the U.S., by their hoods and robes, but that doesn't mean they were [u]Christians[/u] even though they may have [b]claimed[/b] to be. Purely evil racists, more clearly defines them. Their type "gospel" was clearly that of the occult. The organization’s fierce [u]religious[/u], NOT Christian bigotry, and xenophobia, appealed to [b]millions of Americans in the 1920s[/b]. The era marked social experimentation, prohibition, nativism, and drastic social change, witnessing the rise of America’s most notorious homegrown brand of fascism, and how dare them do it in the name of Christianity! Don't worry. They will pay for their sins. And rightly so.
You can't prove Christians are the ones who lynched hundreds of blacks. We know the Ku Klux Klan, the oldest hate group in the U.S., by their hoods and robes, but that doesn't mean they were [u]Christians[/u] even though they may have [b]claimed[/b] to be. Purely evil racists, more clearly defines them. Their type "gospel" was clearly that of the occult. The organization’s fierce [u]religious[/u], NOT Christian bigotry, and xenophobia, appealed to [b]millions of Americans in the 1920s[/b]. The era marked social experimentation, prohibition, nativism, and drastic social change, witnessing the rise of America’s most notorious homegrown brand of fascism, and how dare them do it in the name of Christianity! Don't worry. They will pay for their sins. And rightly so.
littlepuppywantanewlife · 31-35, M
ImperialAerosolKidFromEP · 46-50, M
@littlepuppywantanewlife Yeah, the more I read here the more I see that the real question is "why does it matter?" It seems to only matter to fundamentalist atheists
JollyRoger · 70-79, M
@diablo Yes, I analyze this the same way.... She felt compelled by some inner force to do this. That explains it: I know from a previous experience of a very spiritual woman who drowned her baby because God had told her to do it - following Abraham's story (Genesis 22:1-19)
SW-User
@littlepuppywantanewlife I person with a mental disorder can pray!
diablo · 46-50, M
JollyRoger · 70-79, M
@SW-User I am going to suggest that her statement as you quoted it tells it all: She is (was) a nurse; in her mind she made herself an oath to "save all the babies". At some point she failed (no we don't know what really happened but...) so she simply wrote herself off as being a good nurse and her mind twisted itself into a pathological state where she couldn't accept that criticism (of not being good ENOUGH) and went into a state of absolute defiance..."If I can't save one
, I can't save any as it wouldn't be fair to the one I wasn't able to save."
I know that's a lot of conjecture....what do you think?
, I can't save any as it wouldn't be fair to the one I wasn't able to save."
I know that's a lot of conjecture....what do you think?
SW-User
Possible. One never knows. Maybe she herself couldn't fully understand exactly why she did it so she came up with such a generic statement like that @JollyRoger
JSul3 · 70-79
Does it matter?
Many religious people rape and murder.
Andrea Yates drowned her 5 children because she thought they were possessed by demons.
H O U S T O N, March 26, 2002 -- A psychiatrist on Andrea Yates' defense team says the disturbed woman would have never drowned her children if she hadn't found religion from a man named Michael Woroniecki. A newly uncovered videotape shows traveling evangelist Michael Woroniecki in action.Mar 26, 2002.
Many religious people rape and murder.
Andrea Yates drowned her 5 children because she thought they were possessed by demons.
H O U S T O N, March 26, 2002 -- A psychiatrist on Andrea Yates' defense team says the disturbed woman would have never drowned her children if she hadn't found religion from a man named Michael Woroniecki. A newly uncovered videotape shows traveling evangelist Michael Woroniecki in action.Mar 26, 2002.
JSul3 · 70-79
@deadgerbil Many killers are religious.
Many Nazis were Catholic, for example.
Many Nazis were Catholic, for example.
deadgerbil · 22-25
SW-User
@deadgerbil The saddest place on Earth is a children’s graveyard.
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@BritishFailedAesthetic I knew a vicars wife who was in the Hitler Youth. She saw nothing wrong with it, and said it was like the Girl guides!
Never faced up to her collective responsibility.
I wonder how Ratzinger had the nerve to become pope after his experience in the ‘boy scouts’.
Never faced up to her collective responsibility.
I wonder how Ratzinger had the nerve to become pope after his experience in the ‘boy scouts’.
JollyRoger · 70-79, M
@Gloomy ',,,,justified by theism' Justification is a synonym for 'blaming'.... If you need an excuse put it in God's name and you'll be absolved of it. But: That you wilfully did something heinous doesn't remove the moral corruption that motivated you. [u] Insanity [/u]due to a belief that God is directing you is different than wilfulness.
eMortal · M
It doesn’t matter, she would have done the same thing either way. Her brain processes empathy differently. Mercy killing is her solution to suffering.
If you think for a second that believing in God would have stopped her, you’d be surprised. Throughout history, the road to heaven’s been paved with good intentions like mercy killing.
If you think for a second that believing in God would have stopped her, you’d be surprised. Throughout history, the road to heaven’s been paved with good intentions like mercy killing.
InHeaven · F
Probably demonic possession. Either atheist, or untrepented long term sins can lead to that even in a believer 😞 A person can believe in God in their mind but if they don’t actually LIVE it or practice constant repentance, forgiving, praying, demons will eventually get a hold of them.
diablo · 46-50, M
Many of the most infamous psychopaths throughout history have been believers in some sort of organized religion. As others have already pointed out, being religious would have made no difference. A mental illness like psychopathy can be all-consuming, as is the case with her. During the sentencing, the judge acted like he didn't know anything about mental illness. Of course she didn't express any remorse whatsoever. Total psycopaths are incapable of that.
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@diablo Ben Myers did not use mental illness at all in her defence.
He did a brilliant job for her. In his pre-sentencing statement he said there were no mitigating circumstances.
She had been assessed apparently on her mental capacity and was considered ‘normal’.
The judge was outstanding.
He did a brilliant job for her. In his pre-sentencing statement he said there were no mitigating circumstances.
She had been assessed apparently on her mental capacity and was considered ‘normal’.
The judge was outstanding.
diablo · 46-50, M
@SW-User That's all good to know, as we Americans (in general) did not follow the trial much at all. The summer here has been all about the relentless heat and climate change.
If mental illness was not used, what was her defence? Tbh, that assessment was pure rubbish, as you (???) Brits say. I've studied the psycopathy of serial killers and she checks many of the boxes. Her mind is in no way 'normal'.
If mental illness was not used, what was her defence? Tbh, that assessment was pure rubbish, as you (???) Brits say. I've studied the psycopathy of serial killers and she checks many of the boxes. Her mind is in no way 'normal'.
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@diablo There was another neonatal nurse thirty years ago who used similar techniques. This suggests Letby was familiar with the book about her. Though she added the gross technique of making a haemophiliac bleed by pushing an object down his throat.
All this was compounded with the consultants pleading with the management to take action. They did not, other than support Letby.
All this was compounded with the consultants pleading with the management to take action. They did not, other than support Letby.
Purplerain78 · 41-45, F
SW-User
@Purplerain78 Letby was assessed several times over her mental state. There was nothing unusual. Her defence lawyer was Ben Myers, the best in the country. He did not use it in her defence, nor did he say there were mitigating circumstances to reduce her sentence.
Criminal psychologists are now trying to suggest a reason for her behaviour.
Criminal psychologists are now trying to suggest a reason for her behaviour.
Purplerain78 · 41-45, F
@SW-User Her case is similar to the Beverly Allett one. Munchousen by proxy. Regardless she murdered babies. There's still no justification for it
SW-User
@Purplerain78 yet that was not used either by the defence team or the prosecution. Maybe it was thrown out by the judge.
There was a book written about Allett, which included her methods. Letby must have read it, but why did the paediatricians not have it in their training. Letby had additional sadistic methods too, like putting objects down a haemophiliac’s throat to make him bleed.
Allett admits her guilt and is aware of her crime, Letby is not.
There was a book written about Allett, which included her methods. Letby must have read it, but why did the paediatricians not have it in their training. Letby had additional sadistic methods too, like putting objects down a haemophiliac’s throat to make him bleed.
Allett admits her guilt and is aware of her crime, Letby is not.
Ynotisay · M
As far as I can tell she hadn't disclosed her religious beliefs. There's stories about her attending the Hope City Church which is evangelical.
But I don't think religion had anything to do with this. I think this woman was working on a different level. She moved through life without suspicion. As a serial killer. Hard to wrap my head around that.
But I don't think religion had anything to do with this. I think this woman was working on a different level. She moved through life without suspicion. As a serial killer. Hard to wrap my head around that.
SW-User
@Ynotisay And admit to the other murders she has committed. That at least would give the parents some closer.
I shall be interested to see if she faces a retrial for the ones the jury could not agree on.
But what is equally worrying is that the senior managers also do not admit their guilt. So Letby is not the only one in denial.
I shall be interested to see if she faces a retrial for the ones the jury could not agree on.
But what is equally worrying is that the senior managers also do not admit their guilt. So Letby is not the only one in denial.
Ynotisay · M
@SW-User Safe to say these types of psychopaths are operating on a whole different. I'm not sure if a parent's closure is even on her radar.
SW-User
@Ynotisay No, she enjoyed tormenting them after a child’s death, even sending them cards.
She is like a cat torturing it’s prey!
She is like a cat torturing it’s prey!
SW-User
I think the focus of this post is wrong.
It is the lifelong grief of the parents that we should be concerned for, and how we can support them.
How do we cope with the death of a child?
Secondly, some of the attempted murders have left the children with horrific injuries, they need our support and prayers.
How would you support a disabled child?
Letby has time to reflect.
It is the lifelong grief of the parents that we should be concerned for, and how we can support them.
How do we cope with the death of a child?
Secondly, some of the attempted murders have left the children with horrific injuries, they need our support and prayers.
How would you support a disabled child?
Letby has time to reflect.
Picklebobble2 · 56-60, M
Don't think I remember hearing that she followed a faith.
A guy I knew years ago worked as a prison officer and had done for years.
He once told me prisoners often 'get religion' for the duration of their sentence. Meaning that some attend chapel or church or similar because they think it plays well with parole board applications.
A guy I knew years ago worked as a prison officer and had done for years.
He once told me prisoners often 'get religion' for the duration of their sentence. Meaning that some attend chapel or church or similar because they think it plays well with parole board applications.
SW-User
Either way it has serious mental health problems that negate anything it may or may not believe.
They need to study its history and pathologies in the effort to screen and prevent these attacks from happening to others.
That is if it survives that long in jail.
They need to study its history and pathologies in the effort to screen and prevent these attacks from happening to others.
That is if it survives that long in jail.
SW-User
People who believe in god or religion can be more likely to commit murder that’s why honour killings exist. Shouldn’t have anything to do with either way if she was an atheist or not, some people are just evil.
Stefanv · 56-60, M
How did she get hold of the insulin to inject? Nobody has explained. These drugs are normally well controlled and cannot be bought easily over the counter!
deadgerbil · 22-25
How can one guess accurately? Both groups can kill people. If she's a person of faith, she can just say the devil made her do it
It's completely irrelevant
It's completely irrelevant
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She is human and we are all capable of unspeakable evil.
It doesn’t matter.
It doesn’t matter.
Ceinwyn · 26-30, F
Perhaps she think her god told her to do it.
InstructHer · 56-60, M
She was a church-going Christian.
SW-User
@InstructHer Hope church, I think.
But it does not make her fellowship sadistic murderers with with no compassion.
What is worrying is that there may be other Letbys about. Five perhaps lurking somewhere undetected.
But it does not make her fellowship sadistic murderers with with no compassion.
What is worrying is that there may be other Letbys about. Five perhaps lurking somewhere undetected.
samueltyler2 · 80-89, M
She is the living devil!
ImperialAerosolKidFromEP · 46-50, M
I don't see how knowing the answer could tell you anything useful over such an unusual person
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@ImperialAerosolKidFromEP abhorrent , rather than unusual.
It doesnt matter.
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