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ArishMell · 70-79, M
I respect how you feel personally about the term, and I can understand why; but unfortunately it is such objections that are warping the language and making it very hard to avoid upsetting anyone.
Every continent, barring Antarctica, has indigenous, native and possibly, aboriginal, populations.
There is nothing wrong with these words: they merely link people to place.
- Native merely says where you were born (same root as natal and nativity).
- Indigenous populations are those native as a whole to the place in question; and the word is used in biology generally as well as to human societies.
- Aboriginal populations are from the first humans in their lands.
The difficulties and bad associations arise when some start giving these words artificial meanings and associations that ignore their etymologies. Worse still. when they use the words in wilfully unpleasant ways.
Use me as an example, and I admit I am of, and still live in, one the Western European nations that colonised the Americas and other lands, and treated the original residents appallingly :
I am native to my country although my far-back ancestors might not be indigenous to it, though it is impossible to trace lineage that far back in a country to which it would be impossible meaningfully to ascribe any aboriginal population anyway.
It would not be possible, because over some thousands of years but still well after our species' diaspora from its African roots, we "Old World" countries' natives became an amalgam of any indigenous peoples aboriginal to each and to many other lands, anyway! Some by migration and diffusion, some by conquest; but still too mixed-up for aboriginality at less than continental scale - and that was happening even before there were things called "countries".
Every continent, barring Antarctica, has indigenous, native and possibly, aboriginal, populations.
There is nothing wrong with these words: they merely link people to place.
- Native merely says where you were born (same root as natal and nativity).
- Indigenous populations are those native as a whole to the place in question; and the word is used in biology generally as well as to human societies.
- Aboriginal populations are from the first humans in their lands.
The difficulties and bad associations arise when some start giving these words artificial meanings and associations that ignore their etymologies. Worse still. when they use the words in wilfully unpleasant ways.
Use me as an example, and I admit I am of, and still live in, one the Western European nations that colonised the Americas and other lands, and treated the original residents appallingly :
I am native to my country although my far-back ancestors might not be indigenous to it, though it is impossible to trace lineage that far back in a country to which it would be impossible meaningfully to ascribe any aboriginal population anyway.
It would not be possible, because over some thousands of years but still well after our species' diaspora from its African roots, we "Old World" countries' natives became an amalgam of any indigenous peoples aboriginal to each and to many other lands, anyway! Some by migration and diffusion, some by conquest; but still too mixed-up for aboriginality at less than continental scale - and that was happening even before there were things called "countries".
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ArishMell · 70-79, M
@NativePortlander1970 Swearing at people only does you down. Oh, and I have not said whether my politics are right or left leaning, and my post is politically neutral.
@ArishMell You hit all the leftist woke talking points, try again.
ArishMell · 70-79, M
@NativePortlander1970 Sorry - I have no idea what you mean by "leftist woke"; but I do know my own country was once one of the largest colonial powers going.
The point of the OP was about the meaning of "indigenous" though. I am part of one country's indigenous population, I am native to that country; and neither word confers any negative or positive attributes.
The point of the OP was about the meaning of "indigenous" though. I am part of one country's indigenous population, I am native to that country; and neither word confers any negative or positive attributes.
billybcgn25 · 70-79, M
I was raised in the New Mexico desert down from the Mescalero Apache reservation. At that time (late 1950s/1960s) my best friend was a classmate named Charles. Indeed, using the thorn of a tumbleweed, he and i pierced each other's thumbs and mixed our "blood brothers." Silly childhood nonsense, yes. But I appeal to our friendship to say that I've always respected Indians, which was the colloquial term for Native American.
"Indigenous" is an old word, recycled by someone in some academic circle who was trying to out-virtue signal his or her peers.
How about i just call you a friend? And you call me the same? In fact, let us all just do just that? "Love your neighbor as yourself?"
And remember who our neighbor is, by remembering the parable of The Good Samaritan--that is, even he who may have little in common with me is as much my neighbor as my own family.
"Indigenous" is an old word, recycled by someone in some academic circle who was trying to out-virtue signal his or her peers.
How about i just call you a friend? And you call me the same? In fact, let us all just do just that? "Love your neighbor as yourself?"
And remember who our neighbor is, by remembering the parable of The Good Samaritan--that is, even he who may have little in common with me is as much my neighbor as my own family.
Neoerectus · M
It does not mean primitive. Native has been corrupted, but just means someone who there first. A not uncommon term used in differet parts of the world is 'first or original people.'
Indigenous means similar thing...
"originating or occurring naturally in a particular place; native.
"coriander is indigenous to southern Europe"
synonyms: native, endemic, local, domestic
(of people) inhabiting or existing in a land from the earliest times or from before the arrival of colonists"
Still, you use what you want. It is your life.
Indigenous means similar thing...
"originating or occurring naturally in a particular place; native.
"coriander is indigenous to southern Europe"
synonyms: native, endemic, local, domestic
(of people) inhabiting or existing in a land from the earliest times or from before the arrival of colonists"
Still, you use what you want. It is your life.
@Neoerectus What's your hetitage, hmmm?
Neoerectus · M
@NativePortlander1970 Welsh Celtic, Irish Celtic, old tribes in (Germanic areas ) Tulingi, Varni, and old Franco tribes - ambiani?. Rough guess based on known history of where ancestors hailed from. Like most humans... I'm Heinz 57.
AntisocialTroll · 56-60, F
I would take the term "indigenous" as a compliment, to me it implies the right to be there as opposed to the "invasive" who do not belong.
@AntisocialTroll Indidenous is a leftist woke term, and actually quite degrading to us.
val70 · 51-55
I respect your impressions. Had a simular discussion at my workplace last. These things go in phases, I'm afraid. Like in Dutch there are two terms for describing prehistoric times: either it's "oertijd" or it "prehistorie". The first one can be losely translated as primitive times and the second as prehistoric times. People who like so-called new age stuff will go for the first because they somehow claim that they are the outspring of all that. Lets jump all the way there because that's how we feel, etc. There will be a point in time again when society allows to close down that because it really can't go on. One generation will be looking back whilst the next is trying to jump forward for real instead, and that will happen again soon enough
KiwiBird · 36-40, F
In Australia calling someone a Native Australian would actually be considered racist. Even the Latin word Aboriginal is being used less and less with Indigenous and or First Nations people more common.
SnailTeeth · 36-40
@KiwiBird Tbf, they also believe green blood in video games makes people more sensitive to violence.
Adstar · 56-60, M
All ethnic descriptors end up being considered racist to those who want to see racism in everything..
Oh and once you hear people calling you a native for a while you will start to think that the word native sound primitive to you and then you will have the opportunity to scream racist and play the victim again and demand that people use another descriptor and then it will be wash and repeat and again you will be screaming racist and play the victim again..
Oh and once you hear people calling you a native for a while you will start to think that the word native sound primitive to you and then you will have the opportunity to scream racist and play the victim again and demand that people use another descriptor and then it will be wash and repeat and again you will be screaming racist and play the victim again..
@Adstar Shut the fk up, us Natives find it extremely degrading.
Adstar · 56-60, M
@NativePortlander1970 ummm No..
DearAmbellina2113 · 41-45, F
Oh wow, I never heard 'primitive' be used as a negative before. I have only heard it as an archeological term meaning "first" or "prime" (which is not a bad thing).
This is why it's probably a good idea to just ASK people what they prefer to be called or referred to as.
This is why it's probably a good idea to just ASK people what they prefer to be called or referred to as.
Astro · 56-60, M
@DearAmbellina2113 Primitive to me means backwards and uncivilized. Maybe I'm wrong and am being a cranky old man but I can see where you are coming from with archeology.
Neoerectus · M
@Astro Ever read the Chalice and the Blade? It is a misconception that older civilizations, even hunter gathers, were less sophisticated mentally or socially. Early anthropologists injected their own biases which has been getting corrected.
ArishMell · 70-79, M
@Astro That is only your definition.
"Primitive" means only "First" _ the root is prime.
There is no evidence that primitive people were either backward or uncivilised, let alone both backward and uncivilised. The two adjectives are not synonyms.
Indeed some of their societies must have been very civilised to have left massive remains like Stonehenge and Machu Picchu.
Some might wonder if our modern civilisations are very civil, though...
"Primitive" means only "First" _ the root is prime.
There is no evidence that primitive people were either backward or uncivilised, let alone both backward and uncivilised. The two adjectives are not synonyms.
Indeed some of their societies must have been very civilised to have left massive remains like Stonehenge and Machu Picchu.
Some might wonder if our modern civilisations are very civil, though...
Diotrephes · 70-79, M
@Astro Most American Indians didn't become Americans until 1924, so, they are hardly Native Americans. And the majority of them couldn't vote until the late 1950s. Some still can't.
@Diotrephes Go fk yourself, YOU ALL STOLE OUR LAND 🤬
Diotrephes · 70-79, M
@NativePortlander1970 The original post referred to Indians being "Native Americans." I pointed out that is BS because most American Indians did not become American citizens until 1924. So how could they be considered "Native Americans?"
Now go and rant about how the Spanish, the French, and the Portuguese stole your land as well.
Now go and rant about how the Spanish, the French, and the Portuguese stole your land as well.
@Diotrephes You're too fucking stupid for words, racist piece of shit.
Tres13 · 51-55, M
Ok Native Amerian
sree251 · 41-45, M
I agree with you. Do gooders feel awful superior when they put down white folks whom they want to condemn and displace; especially, when they are white themselves. They have this Mother Theresa complex looking for perceived victims of white supremacy.
SW-User
You've put a label on a word that wasn't there. If only we were all indigenous then this broken wasted planet would still be a paradise..
Diotrephes · 70-79, M
@SW-User Well, the Aztecs did like to sacrifice people by ripping out their hearts while they were still alive. That seems like an icky paradise to me.
SW-User
@Diotrephes I meant the planet itself compared to how it is now. Not people
bijouxbroussard · F
It has nothing to do with being "primitive". The word indigenous simply means
You of course have the right to self-identify as you choose, however.
Being a member of the original inhabitants of a particular place.
You of course have the right to self-identify as you choose, however.
SamInAZ · 41-45, M
@bijouxbroussard I know that. It just sounds like it too much for me to use it as a description of part of background.
ElwoodBlues · M
@SamInAZ Actually, you sound a bit indignant about the use of indigenous😂🤣
SamInAZ · 41-45, M
@ElwoodBlues Maybe just a little.... Indignant Indigent Indigenous Indian.
anythingoes477 · M
Indigenous only means..........native to this land???????? Where did you get "primitive"???? In Mexico half of you would be indigenous there.
dontbekoi · 36-40, F
Good for you for recognizing how you would like to be identified as an unique individual.
Lostpoet · M
Wow it's been over a year since I've seen one of your posts.
Iwantyourhotwife · 22-25
You mean true American before the colonized America?
ChipmunkErnie · 70-79, M
How about "autochthonous"?
StraCat · 41-45, M
I can dig it.
Fukfacewillie · 56-60, M
Aboriginal
Adstar · 56-60, M
@KiwiBird
Well that could be fixed quickly by a DNA test these days.. looked up the price just under 500 dollars.. And i am sure aboriginals could make some kind of claim from the government and get tested for free or at a subsidized price..
A lot of children whose Mother's were 'stolen' have no idea where their tribal roots are.
Well that could be fixed quickly by a DNA test these days.. looked up the price just under 500 dollars.. And i am sure aboriginals could make some kind of claim from the government and get tested for free or at a subsidized price..
ArishMell · 70-79, M
@KiwiBird Very unlikely too because it is inherently an extremely inaccurate "test" based on sweeping generalising.
Its scientific aspect gives DNA origin testing a spurious sense of reliability for the wrong purpose. It can show descent from dead individuals, or links to living ones, but not native region or country.
That is largely because we are so far removed genetically from our own ancestors even only four hundred years - perhaps 16 generations - ago.
Each pairing of an organism produces offspring having only about half of each of its parent's genetic identity, so the sequence is by the power of 2.
Given 16 generations, we each have only 1/(2^16) of the genetic identity of our ancestors those 4 centuries ago, even if we prove continuous, reliable familial records from them. And where did those people live, whence did they originate? Or their own ancestors another 400 years earlier still, 1/(2^32) genes from us?
We can trace our families over centuries if the records exist, and DNA tests famously linked a living person to the 15C, King Richard III (assuming the skeleton was identified correctly) ; but pure biochemistry does not prove our regional or national origins long ago.
.
Distressingly, such commercial DNA origin tests have been seized on by a few ignorant racists to "prove" their racial "purity". If it supposedly does they are cock-a-hoop; if not they allege a faulty test rather than admit their childish prejudices.
Its scientific aspect gives DNA origin testing a spurious sense of reliability for the wrong purpose. It can show descent from dead individuals, or links to living ones, but not native region or country.
That is largely because we are so far removed genetically from our own ancestors even only four hundred years - perhaps 16 generations - ago.
Each pairing of an organism produces offspring having only about half of each of its parent's genetic identity, so the sequence is by the power of 2.
Given 16 generations, we each have only 1/(2^16) of the genetic identity of our ancestors those 4 centuries ago, even if we prove continuous, reliable familial records from them. And where did those people live, whence did they originate? Or their own ancestors another 400 years earlier still, 1/(2^32) genes from us?
We can trace our families over centuries if the records exist, and DNA tests famously linked a living person to the 15C, King Richard III (assuming the skeleton was identified correctly) ; but pure biochemistry does not prove our regional or national origins long ago.
.
Distressingly, such commercial DNA origin tests have been seized on by a few ignorant racists to "prove" their racial "purity". If it supposedly does they are cock-a-hoop; if not they allege a faulty test rather than admit their childish prejudices.
SamInAZ · 41-45, M
Indigenous sounds too close to indigent for me.
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KiwiBird · 36-40, F
@SnailTeeth Sounds like you better stick to kissing ass, suits you.
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