Ethnic cleansing is going on in the West Bank.

@firefall Cool, who do I call to get my check?

Hamas has a huge propaganda arm, by the way.

@LeopoldBloom so that validates slaughtering innocent Palestinians?

@Guitarman123 No, it doesn't, any more than Hamas was justified in slaughtering innocent Israelis.

@sunsporter1649 hamas isnt Palestine

@Guitarman123 No, but they are the people's elected leadership. But civilian casualties should be avoided. Biden's visit seems to have tempered Israeli rage, as they are now back to providing water and electricity, and the Rafah gate to Egypt is opening.

@LeopoldBloom yes but they haven't worked in Palestines best interests

@jshm2 Kind of like how Hamas blames the Jews for the French Revolution.

@LeopoldBloom He won't answer you. He's a troll.

@Graylight [quote]Look, here are no innocents here. And this situation, while long-lived, is hardly unique. There was a time the English crown wanted everything they could touch, and the Irish we left to starve, flee or fight back.[/quote]

I like you and you have a considered and well thought out opinion. None of this is intended to be rude but I am passionately committed to my positions on this and I do know a fair amount on both issues. Please don't be offended.

I am English and unashamed of it. I support all of the sports teams but (and this really matters) I am utterly prepared to be critical of my county's history when it's warranted. If you knew me, you wouldn't have posted that. I am actually sympathetic to (most aspects of) Irish republicanism. I imagine a hypothetical situation of me living in Ireland, Sinn Fein canvassers knocking on my door, hearing my accent and starting to politely back away only to be told that I am on their side!

I'm against imperialism and the Irish were absolutely victims of that. It is not for nothing that the Irish is by far the most Palestinian-friendly country in the whole of Europe. Even their centre-right PM has to pay lip service to this,

The two situations are NOT practically analogous though.

"If the Palestinians played nice like Gerry Adams eventually did, then we could all have a happy ending?"

Really, no. Sorry if this exaggerates your point but it is genuinely what I think you mean.

The Good Friday Agreement was a triumph but the specifics matter. It was negotiated under a centrist UK Labour government (essentially agostic on the Irish question) and only happened because unionist politicians were able to make big compromises and be a 55% that would power share with a 45%. David Trimble, the leading unionist politician at the time, effectively sacrificed his career for peace and compromise. The most powerful party gave up a bit of itself to make it work. The idea of Netanyahu doing that is for the birds. Frankly, the idea of anyone in the current Israeli government doing that is also in the realm of epic fantasy!

The power imbalances are also different. Neither the NI unionist community or the British government ever tried to drive all of the Irish out of Ulster. We did many awful things in history and I'm not looking for credit, just that the analogy does not work in that way.

@Burnley123 I concede on most of your points, and it's always tricky when finding an analogous situation. In broad terms, I'm trying to draw a commonality to the basic conflict and the fact it's been repeated around the world. I favor neither side, not being part of the conflict, but I hope this violence brings to light the actual histories of each nation and people, because it's unquestionably lopsided on this side of the pond.

(And no, the Brits didn't drive the Irish from Ulster, but they did their level best to starve out the rest of the country, among a few other things.)

No worries, and this is likely a topic best voiced when people can sit across from each other and discuss things. But I take no umbrage. Clarification filters through many sources, and you're a good one.

@Graylight good podt

just fyi, I'm well aware if British atrocities in Ireland. I support Irish republicanism. I am sure this is unusual for an Irish America to here from a Brit but it's sincere and there is a not insignificant minority on this side of the Irish sea who have always felt this way.

@specman Hamas is not in the west bank.

@orioninthenight
Just living in another country doesn't absolve you from being a human, No, you're not in the fight. You're not being asked to vote on policy. But you are encouraged to develop some empathy and moral conviction.

@Graylight you packed and have your tickets to israel yet? or you just talk on the internet? last time I checked I was the one who enlisted after 9/11 while you were just sitting back with your "empathy and moral convictions"....

@Graylight I am VERY defensive about this actually. Everyone and their mother is trying these days to make out like Israel, Ukraine, Venezuela, China are my problem. No they are not.

@Renaci You have proof of that? What about Hamas’ stated goal of killing every Jewish person in the world?

@LeopoldBloom I'm not interested in the speculation about the future. I'm interested in what is going on in front of your eyes and you are defending.

@Burnley123 Are you defending Hamas attacking Israeli civilians? I know, Israel made them do it.