Dr Jordan Peterson - "Medicine kills more people than it saves"...... and this is man that many people consider a leading intellectual?
He's we'll spoken and delivers his material with extreme confidence but crap like this reveals that he is truly ignorant and quite happy to use his un-earned status to peddle something he pulled right out of his ass. [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HttqgJQOuTw]
[quote]"Now that's just a guess and it could easily be wrong....but it also could NOT be wrong!" [/quote] LMAO just brilliant, Jordan. So insightful. And then he goes on to say that medical error is the 3rd leading cause of death.
@QueenOfZaun I have to say I've read a lot of criticism of him and I've also been a fan of a lot of what he does as a professor, but I've never heard any of that crap. A lot of people who say he's alt right usually just heard it somewhere. He's not alt-right, you might say he's right-leaning at least in his values and that he doesn't like to say he is, I don't think that matters anyway but for the sake of the discussion that's pretty much it.
He makes criticisms of things like collectivism and aspects of modern-day feminism and I think that gives the impression that he's "one of them". On the other side of that he also has discussions with feminists and has been on feminist shows before. The guy definitely has his own biases and I wrote a post about it recently.
@Ryannnnnn Yeah he's actually called out the alt right on numerous occasions. He's had various nationalists thinking that he was far right too and so they tried asking him his opinion on nationalism which was very poor. He stated that nationalists are incorrect because they don't give rise to the individual. Which I think he's still leaning that nationalism is also collectivist, he seems to be against it all around.
@SatanBurger This also is tricky because they all disavow each other and labels all the time so they are on record saying the right thing at the right time. But when you platform literal white nationalists for an hour without questioning anything, whether you agree with their views or are just a useful idiot becomes a moot point at a certain point.
1) His supporters don't read books so don't know what Postmodernism is. 2) He talks confidently. 3) He interjects basic truisms (said in a tone of a 'smart dude') with crank conspiracies. 4) He is an academic, albeit one in a subject with almost nothing to do with the political points he claims expertise on.
The internet right really really needs an intellectual. A father figure who gives heft and gravitas to their worldview. Peterson fulfils that role. Alex Jones conspiracies just with a post-Hitchens 'smart dude' performance.
@Burnley123 I guess I'm strange. I don't take intellectuals, politicians, celebrities, etc., monolithically. I pretty much ignored his pro-Iraq rhetoric. I saw it as ingenuine. Brutal vicious regime for decades-- oh, let's deal with the fascism now. Not convincing.
@Human1000 Here, the whole British establishment supported the war but public opinion was mixed. I'm too young to know but Hitchens apparantly got extra venom because he was seen as a star intellectual of the left who sold out. His brother, Peter, is still a major columnist here and is an old school Conservative and religious. The brothers always had a love hate relationship.
@Burnley123 The left felt betrayed. I don’t know where Hitchens would be today on some of the more progressives ideas. I could see him breaking with some of the anti-free speech/ culturally dogmatic elements of the left. I think he may consider some of what is going on as Maoist.
I assume you’ve seen the brothers’ debate? The brains between those two...yikes.
Yeah, I stopped following what this guy has to say. I remember watching this video between him and Sam Harris and the amount of mental gymnastics Peterson does is mind numbing.
I first came across him when encountering his views on free will, or the lack of it. I find it to be a pretty compelling lense to look at religion and the world through.
SW-User
@deadgerbil His views on free will, actually. He just totally ignores Compatibilism and pretends it isn't a thing.
This is also the same guy that when he got addicted to drugs instead of listening to doctors went shopping for quacks who would treat him according to his own beliefs (he is not an MD of any flavor) and nearly died because of it.
Really depends on what kind of medicine we're talking about, insulin, blood pressure pills, antibiotics? Many would be long dead without those. Got pneumonia? Nice knowing you see ya
Like this gem of brilliant insight he shared on the DarkHorse podcast:
"I suspect if you did the statistics properly, I suspect that medicine independent of public health kills more people than it saves. I suspect that if you factor in phenomena like development of superbugs in hospitals for example. That overall, the net consequence of hospitals is negative. That's just a guess. That could easily be wrong. But it could also not be wrong".
I still take medicine when I need it because I think even though some facts are true about hospitals and doctors, I think I can weight the benefits and risks of such things when they come up.
Still, I think Peterson has a point. I'm not sure what is so crazy about saying that medications kill. Doctors do human error all the time and our health care is pretty broken. You know how many people die of preventable causes?
The problem is that as Medicine is currently practiced in some places in America he has a point. Medical Administration and Big Pharma have taken the place of the patient as the highest priority in corporate Medicine.
I see his point though, I don't think it was as stupid as you're making it out to be in the context of the conversation. I certainly wouldn't have stated it that way though lol.
I don't think he said anything horrible. He just made a sarcastic comment about Peterson's absurd assertion that he would have been more likely to die if treated for COVID than if he was left alone.
@SW-User This opinion is "different" in the same way a rabid Evangelist saying he can pray to Jesus to cure Cancer or immunize people from Covid is "different". He is dangerous and a threat to anyone who listens. I am torn here because it would do the human race good to lose a few stupid and ignorant people. But they influence and control the frail and the innocent. So it cannot be allowed.,,
Oddly enough his posterior and the CDC data seem to indicate the same sad thing-. Medical care and drugs may be killing people as often as they prolong lives.
I'm [i]not [/i]surprised that your response makes no effort to address anything i said but instead deploy an ad hominem fallacy.
Want to take another shot at that?
Even if you want to cry conspiracy on the statistics, the first part of my post blows Peterson out of the water. If you disagree, feel free to provide a rebuttal.
@Stopmakingsense [quote]hat is your free right-. You want to keep modern medicine above the fray. It's a business. Docs know they're career men first, scientific if their career won't be held back. For the true believers, the deaths aren't important at all. [/quote]
That doesn't even make sense especially in response to my comment.
Oh medical errors are for sure a thing. But i'm not sure how this validates his point either that medicine kills more people than it saves or the objectively, verifiably incorrect assertion that medical errors are the third leading cause of death.
Well he's trying to exclude things which are part of medical science but which aren't necessarily the practice of medicine because if you include things like hygiene, vaccination and nutrition it makes an already absurd case totally laughable.
