Dr Jordan Peterson - "Medicine kills more people than it saves"...... and this is man that many people consider a leading intellectual?

@QueenOfZaun How many stupid things can a person say and do before we stop calling them smart though? He is educated, but that is not the same thing as intelligent.

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow That’s obviously up to you. I personally have respect for Ben Shapiro and Jordan Peterson. I appreciate them despite not agreeing with everything they say.

@QueenOfZaun With those two along with Stephen Molyneux all I see is huge egos with nothing to back it up with actual substance. And personally I think their contributions deserve ridicule more then respect.

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow Well Stephen Molyneux is a literal racist and alt right thinker. Ben and Jordan aren’t. They’ve both condemned the alt right repeatedly for years. I don’t think that’s a valid comparison personally.

@QueenOfZaun Ben sold his soul so Trump supporters would still listen. He’s also a religious zealot who would kill if his Rabbi told him to.

Jordan Peterson traffics in being contrarian which is why he’s speaking this rot now.

@Human1000 Ben has criticized Trump a lot over the years. I used to listen to his podcast. He is a deeply religious dude who has christian/ jewish values that I don’t always agree with. Like homosexuality being a sin, etc

@QueenOfZaun Sorry but to claim they are not in the same camp is just denial. Jordan is the champion of the alt right anti trans bigots. They both have platformed "race realsts" aka racists like Molyneux.

And give me one example where they have given even luke warm criticism of the alt right. They have openly embraced the alt right and pander to them for a living.

@QueenOfZaun They both also perpetuate the myth of "western chauvanism" which is just repackaged white supremacy bullshit. When you use the same rhetoric as the Proud Boys you would think that would be a red flag but they seem totally okay with it.

@QueenOfZaun They also have all produced derivative mediocre work and present it like once in a century revelations even when it borders or is outright plagiarized or recycled ideas. So the similarities don't stop with politics.

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow Ben Shapiro on the alt right movement “It is a garbage movement composed of garbage ideas.”

Jordan Peterson slamming the idiocy of white supremacists “You’re (referring to right wing extremists) using the unearned gift that’s been granted to you as a source of personal pride in your accomplishments, due to the color of your skin.”

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow I think a lot of liberals who criticize Ben and Jordan don’t really listen to what they have to say. I think they try really, really hard to label both of them as alt right extremists, in order to dismiss what they have to say. Because they don’t like what they have to say. And you know, it’s okay to not like what they have to say. It’s cool to disagree but they are so not alt right and to desperately try to paint them as such is really dishonest I think.

@QueenOfZaun The problem with that is his actions say the complete opposite. If he feels that way why is his show basically a platform for "garbage ideas". I agree they are garbage but I don't believe for a second he does.


And like Peterson the white supremacist gang Proud Boys claim up and down they are not a white power group but "western chauvanists." They even use the same dog whistle.

And in those groups they joke around about disavowing each other all the time.


And leave it to Peterson to use a bunch of flowery language to say absolutely nothing. He built his career on that. 🤣

@QueenOfZaun First off I am not a liberal. Second I have listened to them and have even read some of their work (god help me). I have followed Petersen since he was a college professor deeply confused by Canadian law.

@QueenOfZaun And I think you are the one trying to invent a distinction without a difference out of some sort of loyalty to them or their ideas. Most people who try and create this fig leaf do it because they don't want to admit who they are in bed with.

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow I don’t agree with your interpretation of their philosophy. Also I wasn’t referring to you specifically when I was talking about liberals who criticized them in my last reply. Sorry I can see why you may have thought I was. But i’m confused, are you now trying to say i’m some sort of closet republican or something?

@QueenOfZaun Not at all. I just think your belief in their good intentions is misplaced particularly with Petersen. He comes out of same Canadian dumpster fire that created Stephen Molyneux, The Proud Boys, and Lauren Southern and the fact he uses the same lingo/dog whistles is not an accident.

As for Ben I think he is a useful idiot who probably doesn't realize his audience has a serious nazi problem. I see him more like a Dave Ruben who is more oblivious than malicious but ends up being a gateway into the far right anyway. He has spoken out against certain right wing figures but then turns right around and recycles their conspiracy theories on air. He may just be very confused.

Something it is hard to tell the difference between the dangerous ones and the dangerous idiots.

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow Okay sorry i’m just really tired. I had a long day so my brain is being difficult to work with. But the way I see it is this. The alt right is composed of several unifying ideas. White supremacy, Anti zionism, Holocaust denial, xenophobia, racism, anti feminism.

Right?

Jordan and Ben don’t believe in any of those ideas. Both are against white supremacy. Both are against anti zionism (also Ben is literally jewish), both don’t deny the Holocaust, both aren’t xenophobic, both aren’t racist.

Finally while Ben and Jordan do criticize feminism a fair deal, it’s always radical feminism that they criticize. Primarily 3rd and 4th wave feminism. So I don’t see how you can say they are alt right. Yes they do criticize liberal ideas and they are on the right side of the political spectrum. But they condemn violence, racism, white supremacy, etc. Soooo where’s the extremism? Because i’m not seeing it.

@QueenOfZaun Literally the only statement there that is backed up with anything is Ben being a Zionist, a Jew and not a holocaust denier. But he uses the same white power dog whistles and lingo so he seems confused. "western chauvanism" is not a neutral term. It was literally created by the alt right as a code word.

Again I think he is more a useful idiot like Dave Ruben and has no idea how neck deep he is in all of this.


Petersen on the other hand has been associated with the Canadian alt right since day one and used bigotry against trans people to create a name for himself. Before that bigoted controversy of his own making he was a nobody psych prof at a nothing special college. Entirely average. He has said in interviews implied physical violence against women should be acceptable. To be fair in the same interview he said he already thinks physical violence against other men is acceptable for conflict resolution. So this idea that they are just trolling the SJWs is a tired cliche and just factually wrong. I mean his own daughter is giving softball interviews platforming Lauren Southern who is one of the biggest pushers of the "Great Replacement" conspiracy theory and a proponent of the neo nazi "trad wife" subculture. For someone who supposedly doesn't like the alt right he seems to be very close to some if the most toxic members of it.

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow Can you send me links and evidence that back up all of your criticisms of them being alt right? The racism, white supremacy, when Jordan Peterson denied the Holocaust and xenophobia claims?

@QueenOfZaun Will take some digging but I can definitely see what I can dig up. Some of this goes back years in particular with Petersen. I know his daughter recently on her podcast platformed Lauren Southern for a full hour and he himself has a long history with her. They might argue "guilt by association" but if you give a platform to neo nazis and just nod your head and praise them you have a problem either way.

@QueenOfZaun FWIW, I think Shapiro and Peterson are more straight Conservatives than alt-right. They have platformed far-right figures and Peterson does have alt-right fans. Shapiro not so much because he is Jewish.

There is a crossover on Youtube politics between more mainstream and radical right ideas. For example, Peterson's take on 'Post-modern neo-marxism' is at best one remove from the 'cultural marxism' conspiracy theory. Shapiro has at times condemned Trump but also supports some of his ideas. Tax cuts for the rich and judge pics gain more favour than racist dog whistles lose, I guess.

@Burnley123 I think the simplest way to put it is that Peterson is a staunch traditionalist and he's popular with that crowd, which includes the alt-right.

And yeah, post-modern neomarxism is just repurposed antisemitism. I don't even think he knows what he's doing, but that's another indictment. He's a professional smart person and should know better.

@Burnley123 I also think part of the issue with Petersen is he seems to be literally incapable of stating anything outright. This often gives him the room he needs to move the goalposts later.

@Burnley123 But when both he and his daughter platform open 14 words types completely uncritically there is an issue there.

@QueenOfZaun I have to say I've read a lot of criticism of him and I've also been a fan of a lot of what he does as a professor, but I've never heard any of that crap. A lot of people who say he's alt right usually just heard it somewhere. He's not alt-right, you might say he's right-leaning at least in his values and that he doesn't like to say he is, I don't think that matters anyway but for the sake of the discussion that's pretty much it.

He makes criticisms of things like collectivism and aspects of modern-day feminism and I think that gives the impression that he's "one of them". On the other side of that he also has discussions with feminists and has been on feminist shows before. The guy definitely has his own biases and I wrote a post about it recently.