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SW-User
I think he's making a statement about how he feels within NATO that USA is the only country pulling its weight.
This is a row within NATO now largely. We have a NATO country Turkey essentially invading Syria and a part held by probably the best locally based to help defeat the ISIS fighters. His feeling is that any ISIS fighters released will either continue to fight locally or go to Europe to cause havoc. Which is more likely given the easier passage from there into Europe.
Now he wants the European countries to actually take up the baton and deploy troops on the ground against Turkey, risky given the NATO alliance position. Or come back to beg the USA to help. He'll then smile and say "See you can't do without us. Increase your contributions to NATO or I won't".
I think that is the reason he referenced Normandy that's a message to all us in Europe - "Remember who helped you out then, wasn't the Kurds was it?" That's the message in that statement.
This is a row within NATO now largely. We have a NATO country Turkey essentially invading Syria and a part held by probably the best locally based to help defeat the ISIS fighters. His feeling is that any ISIS fighters released will either continue to fight locally or go to Europe to cause havoc. Which is more likely given the easier passage from there into Europe.
Now he wants the European countries to actually take up the baton and deploy troops on the ground against Turkey, risky given the NATO alliance position. Or come back to beg the USA to help. He'll then smile and say "See you can't do without us. Increase your contributions to NATO or I won't".
I think that is the reason he referenced Normandy that's a message to all us in Europe - "Remember who helped you out then, wasn't the Kurds was it?" That's the message in that statement.
@SW-User Well, that's a pretty ballsy move. I hope it works, but meanwhile. ISIS cockroaches are scattering and Turkish troglodytes are hurting innocent people.
SW-User
@puck61 I think Donald's position is 🤷♂️ whatever. They don't vote for him next year.
4meAndyou · F
I felt the same way at first. It is absolutely horrible. To abandon our allies...it is just horrible. And it will probably result in the re-emergence of ISIS. I know our own military are violently against withdrawing.
But then last night I listened to Trump speak about his reasons...and the emotion in his voice, and the sincerity with with he spoke, actually made me listen.
He said he hates to see people die...just hates it. His voice broke a little bit. But that these people, (meaning the Turks and the Kurds), have been at war with one another for thousands of years, and if we stay involved, that is how long WE will be at war. He says these wars are endless wars...and he is right. The people involved are insane, some of them are genocidal, and they have been fighting these battles since time began.
He said he does not want even one more American to die fighting in a war that will never, ever end.
But then last night I listened to Trump speak about his reasons...and the emotion in his voice, and the sincerity with with he spoke, actually made me listen.
He said he hates to see people die...just hates it. His voice broke a little bit. But that these people, (meaning the Turks and the Kurds), have been at war with one another for thousands of years, and if we stay involved, that is how long WE will be at war. He says these wars are endless wars...and he is right. The people involved are insane, some of them are genocidal, and they have been fighting these battles since time began.
He said he does not want even one more American to die fighting in a war that will never, ever end.
JT123 · M
Did you feel the same way when Obama pulled out of Iraq and left our Iraqi soldier allies for the ISIS slaughter? What about Hillary and Obama abandoning those poor men begging for help in Benghazi?
goliathtree · 56-60, M
The Turks and the Kurds have been enemies and at what might as well be called war for something in the neighborhood of 400 years. While I sympathize with the Kurds, whether we are there or not, will not change this rivalry. So, if we extract ourselves from a situation that will never end and only continue to cost American lives and resources and we expose Turkey for what they really are (remember, they are a member of NATO in good standing and supposedly our ally - NOT!) I fail to see how this is a bad decision.
Perhaps I am missing something.
What I find even more perplexing is the flip flopping from "Don't you dare go to war!" to "Don't you dare extract yourself from war!" attitudes....
Perhaps I am missing something.
What I find even more perplexing is the flip flopping from "Don't you dare go to war!" to "Don't you dare extract yourself from war!" attitudes....
@goliathtree I am seeing it a bit clearer now, thanks to input from people like you, 4MAndYou, Mugin, budwick, and others. I had a knee jerk because they have prisons filled with ISIS scum, and they gave their lives helping us round up ISIS. At first glance this seemed like a complete betrayal, and to some extent it still does, but Trump is right about these wars going on forever. When you consider how that religion came about, you can see why it has been a bloody mess ever since.
goliathtree · 56-60, M
@puck61 I don't think anyone wins here except the young men and women in our armed forces who won't die in Syria.
@goliathtree also a good point.
Dlrannie · 31-35, F
It is wholly dishonourable and sadly shows America’s allies that the country cannot be trusted under Trump.
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Budwick · 70-79, M
It's not a slam dunk decision.
I understand and respect you POV on the PUICK, but I think Nunos and 4meandyou nailed the reasoning behind Trumps decision.
It's ballsey on his part. He'll either look like a brilliant strategist or a buffoon. Only the latter will be reported regardless of the outcome.
I understand and respect you POV on the PUICK, but I think Nunos and 4meandyou nailed the reasoning behind Trumps decision.
It's ballsey on his part. He'll either look like a brilliant strategist or a buffoon. Only the latter will be reported regardless of the outcome.
I don't think Trump is even capable of putting together a coherent and well thought out long term foreign policy plan, but...
This is consistent with his America First idea about not sending American soldiers to fight and die on foreign soil, and it's also fairly consistent with the way he's conducted foreign policy in short term transactional ways, without regard to historical alliances or the long term reasons for such alliances.
I'm not going to go into what I think about Trump's mental state, the political reasons why he's suddenly doing what he said he was going to do before and then backed off, or even how this seems to benefit Putin, all of which I think might explain this decision, but whether its bone headed and dishonorable or not, it seems consistent and I doubt this decision was made to punish anyone.
This is consistent with his America First idea about not sending American soldiers to fight and die on foreign soil, and it's also fairly consistent with the way he's conducted foreign policy in short term transactional ways, without regard to historical alliances or the long term reasons for such alliances.
I'm not going to go into what I think about Trump's mental state, the political reasons why he's suddenly doing what he said he was going to do before and then backed off, or even how this seems to benefit Putin, all of which I think might explain this decision, but whether its bone headed and dishonorable or not, it seems consistent and I doubt this decision was made to punish anyone.
Mugin16 · 46-50, M
Removing the illegal presence of U.S. troops in Syria. Getting the U.S. out of the never-ending wars of the Middle East. Stop trying to oust President Assad.
Cierzo · M
I really wonder why the Kurds have so much western sympathy. Who is behind them?
Cierzo · M
@4meAndyou Nobody likes the Turks. You ask anyone in the neighbouring countries and they will say the worst about them. I would not say they are the nastiest of the nasty bunch, though, certainly not as long as the Saudis exist, but would love to see Istambul in Christian hands again before I die.
On the other hand, I see Erdogan loves his country more, and has more guts than 95% of Western leaders.
My point is that Kurds and Turks have been fighting for decades, and it is nobody's business but theirs. I will never understand why the west does not let all the Middle East Semites (I don't care whether they are Muslims or Jews) to kill one another if that is what they please. They have been doing it for centuries, much longer even before the Crusades.
On the other hand, I see Erdogan loves his country more, and has more guts than 95% of Western leaders.
My point is that Kurds and Turks have been fighting for decades, and it is nobody's business but theirs. I will never understand why the west does not let all the Middle East Semites (I don't care whether they are Muslims or Jews) to kill one another if that is what they please. They have been doing it for centuries, much longer even before the Crusades.
TheConstantGardener · 56-60, M
Feels like betrayal and that's how the Kurds see it.
@TheConstantGardener My beloved country seems to have a habit of throwing our best allies under the bus. The man who gave us Bin Laden is still being tortured and starved to death in a Paki prison. (if he is still alive.)
Peaches · F
It was surprising to me as well.😔Many think all these wars will never end and each country should fight their own. We'll see what happens...if he doesn't get impeached first!😯
jackjjackson · 61-69, M
Bringing the troops home. Let’s get the rest home too.
Mugin16 · 46-50, M
It is actually Turkey that is an ally of the U.S. They are a NATO member. The U.S. did never sign a treaty with the Kurdish (and Communist) militia YPG, which would give the U.S. the obligation to defend them.
@Mugin16 If I were in charge I would help Israel completely annex the area people call "Palestine", and set up the worlds largest multi-branch military base there. We don't need to meddle, but we need to be wise. The Islamists first attacked the USA unprovoked less than ten years after the Declaration of Independence was signed, and they preached the same filth that they preach today.
[quote] “it was written in the Koran, that all Nations who should not have acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon whoever they could find and to make Slaves of all they could take as prisoners, and that every Mussulman who should be slain in battle was sure to go to Paradise.” [/quote]
[quote] “it was written in the Koran, that all Nations who should not have acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon whoever they could find and to make Slaves of all they could take as prisoners, and that every Mussulman who should be slain in battle was sure to go to Paradise.” [/quote]
Zonuss · 41-45, M
Now you are starting to smell the coffee Puck. Its about time. 🙂
Harriet03 · 41-45, F
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SW-User
It's taken you this long?
Tracos · 51-55, M
Divide and maga