A coalition of over 80 grassroots organizations in California is actively calling for the state to continue closing prisons and redirecting resources towards community services.
You can bet that they will fight the re-opening of Alcatraz.
Here's what DOGE ought to be asking: (1) How much will it cost to refurbish and rebuild Alcatraz after being closed since 1963 due to high operational costs? (2) Is it cheaper to maintain prisoners in our existing supermax style of prison, or is shipping food & supplies & guards out to Alcatraz cheaper?
I don't know the answers to these questions, but tRump's silence on them suggests the answers don't support re-opening Alcatraz.
Oh, wait, the Bureau of Prisons has this about the cost of Alcatraz:
On March 21, 1963, USP Alcatraz closed after 29 years of operation. It did not close because of the disappearance of Morris and the Anglins (the decision to close the prison was made long before the three disappeared), but because the institution was too expensive to continue operating. An estimated $3-5 million was needed just for restoration and maintenance work to keep the prison open. That figure did not include daily operating costs - Alcatraz was nearly three times more expensive to operate than any other Federal prison (in 1959 the daily per capita cost at Alcatraz was $10.10 compared with $3.00 at USP Atlanta). The major expense was caused by the physical isolation of the island - the exact reason islands have been used as prisons throughout history. This isolation meant that everything (food, supplies, water, fuel...) had to be brought to Alcatraz by boat. For example, the island had no source of fresh water, so nearly one million gallons of water had to be barged to the island each week. The Federal Government found that it was more cost-effective to build a new institution than to keep Alcatraz open.
@DogMan Because “why would I listen to a little girl” is not a compliment. It’s diminishing. It’s dismissive. You seem to believe that what you say is weighty, meaningful, savvy, simply because you’ve lived a random period of time as a “man.” That may or may not be true. But have you learned anything? I see no evidence.
You have not learned that a man, or a woman, who has been paying attention in life, knows that the mark of a genuine human being is to uplift and guide. You just stomp on people with your opinions. First, it’s dumb, because nobody getting stomped on is listening to your pearls of wisdom. You will convince only those who already agree with you. So you’re not progressing, you’re seeking refuge in your bunker. That’s not courageous. It’s not wise. It’s not leading. It’s not “manly”.
You are deluded if you think I give a tinker’s damn about “youthful” appearance. I inherited useful genes in that respect, and it is in no way my accomplishment. Nor my pride.
A true compliment is not intended to control or give it with one hand and take it away with the other. True compliments I accept as gracefully as I can.
Now, I have zero interest in further discussion with you. Here’s hoping you feel the same.
A movement has begun for the abolition of prisons—not for prison reform, with fewer inmates in better institutions, but for the outright elimination of incarceration, on the implicit model of the earlier abolition of such things as public hangings, torture, and slavery. Championed most effectively by Angela Y. Davis’s “Are Prisons Obsolete?”
So prison is now the same as public hangings, torture, and slavery? I think that everyone that believes this, should be forced to take in released prisoners. especially rapists, and homicidal maniacs.
Um... I think lots of Democrats think Trump should be in prison. Certain rogue prosecutors and rogue judges, for example.
What was "rogue" about tRump's NY conviction??
tRump was convicted of 34 counts of falsifying business documents. This is a crime under New York Executive Law EXC § 63(12). This can be either a misdemeanor or felony depending on whether the falsification was part of a further crime. In this case, the further crime was falsification of income streams on tax documents, i.e. tax fraud.
How do we know? From the documents and testimony of Trump Org controller, Mr J.S. McConney. Take it away, Boo-Boo Jeff!!
“I made a boo-boo,” Jeffrey S. McConney admitted when describing the erroneous math he scribbled on “TRUMP” corporate letterhead.
The former Trump Organization controller testified about the notes he took during a January 2017 meeting that laid out how the family real estate company was going to surreptitiously reimburse attorney Michael Cohen for fronting the $130,000 that silenced the porn star Stormy Daniels. That payment kept her from going public about her decade-old, one-night stand with Trump in the days before the 2016 presidential election.
The farce was laid out in black and white, with handwritten notes explaining the fuzzy math at play.
Cohen would be paid $180,000, which was doubled on paper so that it would make up for the roughly 50 percent taxes the Midtown Manhattan resident would have to pay in federal, state, and city taxes. McConney wrote “180,000 x 2 for taxes” in black pen on the bright white paper. On the witness stand, he admitted the company was fine having it “grossed up” to ensure Cohen got his proper share.
The sham continued when tallying up Cohen’s bonus. Initially $50,000 was marked as “paid to Red Finch for tech services” but that seemed to morph instead to mean $60,000 for Cohen himself.
“Michael was complaining that his bonus wasn’t large enough. This was to make up for whatever he thought he was owed,” McConney testified.
The total $420,000 was then divided by 12 so that Cohen would get $35,000 each month for a year. McConney’s notes of that meeting included a mention that stated “Mike to invoice us,” the genesis of what prosecutors say would later be Cohen invoices for fake legal work that Trump gladly paid to keep the hush money deal under wraps.
Monday’s testimony also connected Trump directly to the process, a major step forward in the case. Prosecutors showed jurors a copy of a March 28, 2017 email in which McConney wrote, “I’ll check status tomorrow. DJT needs to sign check.”
On the stand, McConney explained that authorizing the money transfers would require having someone actually go to the White House have the then-president of the United States approve the payment himself—while he was president.
"...where Dershowitz explains his moral calculus for defending Claus von Bulow."
Yes he does... there was prosecutorial misconduct in Buelow's first trial. The guilty verdict was overturned on appeal because the prosecution had withheld crucial evidence from the defense.
That's why we should always wait until all appeals are exhausted, right Ellie? Or are you against due process when the defendant is someone you don't like? Hmm... 🤭
"Also true of Al Capone's tax evasion case..."
No one else had been prosecuted for tax evasion...? 😂 😂 😂
"Indeed. The law applies to everyone; that's the point. If you don't want to be prosecuted, don't falsify your business documents."
So that's why Gov Hochul was at such pains to assure everyone that Trump was a very special case, and that other NY business people "have nothing to worry about" because they are all so honest. 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂
BTW, I recall reading that Letitia James has falsified business documents in her real estate transactions.
@Thinkerbell As usual you dodged and misled, stinker.
You say
The guilty verdict was overturned on appeal because the prosecution had withheld crucial evidence from the defense.
DEAD WRONG!!! Have you begun penning fiction along with your poesy? Dershowitz got crucial evidence thrown out because it was gathered by a private eye hired by Sonny's children. Without that crucial evidence, conviction wasn't possible. It was a technicality; nothing to do with guilt or innocence.
Dershowitz tells his team that appeals aren’t won on the basis of a defendant’s guilt or innocence but on constitutional issues or procedural faults in the trial.
“If Hitler calls me up, what do I do?” asks Dershowitz, a Brooklyn-born Jewish divorced father, of his son. “Defend him,” says the son, who knows his father well.
Among other terrible people, Dershowitz represented Leona Helmsley (Queen of mean) for her appeal of her tax evasion conviction; even claiming she had actually overpaid her taxes. Her conviction was upheld.
Dershowitz is a hired mouth. He'll say anything and spin anything to win a case. Especially outside the courtroom. Sad that your case for tRump hinges on such a flagrant paid prevaricator.
That's why we should always wait until all appeals are exhausted, right Ellie?
DEAD WRONG AGAIN!!! Once convicted, a person is presumed guilty until proven innocent on appeal. That's why many mafia dons have to plead their appeals from prison.
To paraphrase St Ronald of Reagan: The trouble with our conservative friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so.
"Also true of Al Capone's tax evasion case..."
No one else had been prosecuted for tax evasion...? 😂 😂 😂
Nice dodge!!! Do you need new eyeglasses? Are you suffering from tRump-style cognitive decline?? I listed other cases that had been prosecuted for the same crime. Here, let me refresh your memory.
"The law under which Ms. James sued, known by its shorthand 63(12), requires the plaintiff to show a defendant’s conduct was deceptive. If that standard is met, a judge can impose severe punishment, including forfeiting the money obtained through fraud. Ms. James has also used this law against the oil company ExxonMobil, the tobacco brand Juul and the pharma executive Martin Shkreli."
BTW, I recall reading that Letitia James has falsified business documents in her real estate transactions.
She identified a place in VA as her principle residence. Perhaps it was at the time. BTW, something I read said falsifying business documents was not a federal crime. Regardless, what LJ may or may not have done wrong has no effect on tRump's falsifications (see below).
"nothing to worry about," as Hochul so aptly put it.
More dodging, stinker. You failed to address the long list of tRump frauds the judge listed. All of them separately prosecutable as criminal cases after the civil case ends. Here. let me refresh your memory again!
"Valuing occupied residences as if vacant, valuing restricted land as if unrestricted, valuing an apartment as if it were triple its actual size, valuing property many times the amount of concealed appraisals, valuing planned buildings as if completed and ready to rent, valuing golf courses with brand premium while claiming not to, and valuing restricted funds as cash, are not subjective differences of opinion, they are misstatements at best and fraud at worst," the judge wrote.
(1) In addition the $300m required to refurbish and reopen Alcatraz as a functioning prison, it is estimated that it would cost three times as much to run as a modern facility.
(2) There is already plenty of spare capacity in the prison estate wuthout opening another facility.
(3) Alcatraz is a national.park and popular tourist attraction, turning over around $60m a year.
Great idea . . if your view of criminal justice is based on watching Hollywood films and you have limitless amounts of taxpayers' money to p**s up the wall 🙂
Were it up to me, I'd convert on old container ship to a prison. Use containers as cells. Anchor it somewhere in Bermuda triangle. And if it happens to get hit by a hurricane and sink, oh well... 🤷🏻
Kind of like how he was going to annex Canada and Greenland, he was going to turn Gaza into a vacation spot, OH and now he wants to be the next Pope.
He has all these peanut boy ideas that never last longer than two weeks.
Of course the MAGA crowd's t4ints start twitching with excitement each time trump comes up with more half baked ideas.
I wonder if one day he will promise to resurrect old leaders who have passed on. Of course MAGA will believe it like they do EVERYthing trump says. DUR DUR-DUR
Alcatraz has a maximum capacity of 336 prisoners. I wonder how much of a dent that would make in the number of high risk illegal immigrant criminals Trump is thinking of housing there?
@SunshineGirl I can agree w that .. seeming chaos in action is not a great strategy ..
Neither was a bumbling old man being "managed" by .. well, who TAF knows .. letting millions come into the country unvetted .. firing people refusing a vaccine that was not represented as capable of the basis for firing them .. pushing toward electric vehicle mandates without the infrastructure for them or even a plan to put it in place .. Driving us head long toward a debt cliff that will cripple us in debt servicing
Tough choices to be faced w making seldom lead to the greatest agreement among the masses
