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Is Ukraine worth fighting for?

As everyone knows there is a nasty war of attrition going on in Ukraine and Ukraine tragically is losing about 10 soldiers for every 1 soldier that Russia is losing. That makes the war unsustainable but still the question remains "Is Ukraine worth fighting for". I honestly don't care which side 'wins' or which side 'loses. I simply prefer that the war stop immediately. It should never have started. That aside I was able to share a baptism event on the North Saskatchewan River here in Central Alberta. I traditionally associate Ukrainians with the Orthodox or Catholic tradition but this was a Pentecostal service. There were about 100 military age Ukrainian refugees at the service. I didn't get much of what was being said as the service was in Ukrainian led by a pastor who left Ukraine 2 years ago. Most everyone there had left in a similar time frame. Everyone I spoke to said that they did not want to return to Ukraine. Oh and most of them had their wife and children with them. Interesting times we live in. I wonder what it must be like in Poland and Germany where many more Ukrainians are taking refuge.

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Submissiveiendencies · 18-21

NO NO NO .We need to take care of the ****US Citizens only**** Anyone go back from where you came from.

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deadgerbil · 22-25

@crownedwithlaurel97 why not use it to support more trickle down economics,,,

crownedwithlaurel97 · 26-30, F

@deadgerbil i have an idea, what if we give it to rich people!

deadgerbil · 22-25

@crownedwithlaurel97 yeah, let's also say we're against the elites while supporting big businesses in which the elites get their power from

Ozymandiaz

If you wouldn't fight for your country that is up to you. Ukrainians have decided that they would fight for theirs and that is up to them.

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specman · 51-55, M

@hippyjoe1955 nope! NATO doesn’t work like that

hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M

@specman Yeah it does and you can't prove otherwise. What war has the US advocated that NATO declined to participate. Name one.

specman · 51-55, M

@hippyjoe1955 that is the purpose of nato. You mess with one you mess with all.

WintaTheAngle · 41-45, M

“Ukraine is tragically loosing.”

If that was the case the war would not have gone on for this long, Moscow wouldn’t be under a air attack, Putin wouldn’t have ensured his mercenary leader met with an accident, and one of Putin’s lapdogs would be Kiev. But it isn’t, and Russia is a laughing stock.

BijouPleasurette · 36-40, F

@WintaTheAngle “Ukraine is tragically loosing.”

Was it tighting before? If so, it's not tragic for it to loose, is it?

robertsnj · 56-60, M

I feel sad for the war and loss of life too--but to address your question is a war for economic gain for Russian through hostile acquisition. Their oil and gas exports alone make them an alluring target for Russia. If you shift your though process (and this is not a criticism to you) from religion and culture to more of war as an economics decision almost all wars will have a clarity (though unsettling ) to you.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/04/28/ukraine-war-russia-resources-energy-oil-gas-commodities-agriculture/

In terms of Germany---Germany imported energy from Russia and have a disrupted supply chain due to the war going into a tough German winter. While you think about refugees many of their minds are more on energy than immigration.

That was the point of economic sanctions on Russia by the West and why economics sanctions are a go to strategy to deter war. The idea is to make the price of admission (sanctions plus cost of war) worth more than the possible gain.

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specman · 51-55, M

@hippyjoe1955 Biden will no longer be president after elections. The US will not collapse. The weakness that was connected with Biden's presidency emboldened Russia, but we did not cause the invasion. Russia invaded Ukraine on it's own.

hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M

@specman you have no idea how precarious the US actually is. BRICS is about to destroy the US dollar.

specman · 51-55, M

@hippyjoe1955 Yeah you posted a while back that Ukraine lost the war . Which makes you sound real truthful.

BizSuitStacy · M

No. Congress voted against auditing the funds being "sent" to Ukraine. They seem to have something to hide, and there's no strategic objective in the fight. But the US is spending a ton of money as if protecting a national interest (money laundering, child trafficking, biolabs). Military aid will only increase the number killed and wounded.

Notice no other nation is spending anywhere near what the US is spending.

AbbySvenz · F

The top four exports from Ukraine in 2022 were corn, Sun/safflower/cotton-seed oil, Iron ores &concentrates, and Wheat.

I did not see biolab materials or children anywhere on the top 100 exports list 🤷🏼‍♀️@BizSuitStacy

hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M

@AbbySvenz The US admitted to the 45 Bioweapons labs so that is pretty much established fact. There are thousands of missing children in Ukraine as reported by informed sources. I doubt that Ukraine would list 'missing children' as a driver of their economy.

BizSuitStacy · M

@hippyjoe1955 Don't let facts like Victoria Nuland's admission of the existence of US biolabs in Ukraine and her fear that the Russians now have the pathogens get in the way of Abbey's gaslighting.

SW-User

There are more talks of yet another mobilization in Ukraine even the telegraph has acknowledged Ukraine is running out of men. The counter offensive was meant to achieve its objectives within 10 weeks according to Milley (if I remember correctly). We are now in the 12th week of the CO and Ukraine is only now beginning to battle Russian defence lines. I suppose Ukrainians will decide if it's worth fighting for but it is utter madness what's going on right now.

hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M

@SW-User Ukraine lost about 700 KIA yesterday. This isn't a war it is a slaughterhouse. Such an utter waste of human life. The truly sad part is that Ukraine and Russia had a peace deal a year and a half ago. It agreed to terms that were very favorable to Ukraine. Sadly the US nixed it and the rest they say is history. The US needs to clean out its neocon bureaucracy. Maybe charge Nuland et al with war crimes.

SW-User

@hippyjoe1955

Slaughterhouse sounds about right. Too many people are focused on advancements not realising the cost it takes Ukraine to do so. This insistence on yet more aid is ludicrous. There's no wonder weapon that's going to change the outcome, that includes the F-16s. Ukraine has/had a fleet of MiG and Sukhoi, platforms of which they are very familiar, and yet that did not help them. This idea of super Ukrainian pilots that are going to train on a platform they are unfamiliar with and within a couple of months, lead Ukraine to victory in the air is insane. Apparently Ukrainian pilots have to take English classes first before training on F-16s. I'm honestly flabbergasted by the US take on this entire situation. The only thing I can conclude is that they're simply satisfied that it is Ukrainians and not Americans, doing the dying.

hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M

@SW-User There is an old adage which is shown to be true. Being an enemy of the US is dangerous. Being a friend of the US is deadly. The US is not a good partner. In its present state it is on the side of evil. Of course the US had a coup in 2020 so anything it does now is illegal.

Roundandroundwego · 61-69

Fighting definitely destroys everything worth fighting for. That's why Americans don't think peace should be possible. War means everything to them.

MarineBob · 56-60, M

Our great great great grandchildren won't pay what we've spent on it

ididntknow · 51-55, M

@BijouPleasurette so you just confirmed you don’t look at history, I’m afraid in this case, you do need to go back to 2014, and the Maidan coup, America are in that up to their armpits,

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BijouPleasurette · 36-40, F

@ididntknow OK, if that's the way you feel.

hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M

@ididntknow Technically go back to 2008 then 2014. The US has a long and storied history of making its friends dead. Ukraine is just the latest case. As the old saying goes "Having the US as you enemy is dangerous. Having the US as your friend is DEADLY!". The US is only interested in things that matter to the US. Thus getting Ukraine to fight a proxy war with Russia is a win win situation. The US gets to get rid of its obsolete armements and replace them with new toys and it gets to weaken the state is so desires for its wealth. That state being Russia. The US made one small miscalculation. Russia is much more than Spain with a gas station. It is likely the most militarily advanced nation on earth and is destroying the US weaponry like some red neck crushes Bud Lite beer cans.

ididntknow · 51-55, M

@hippyjoe1955 you obviously have a great understanding of the situation in Ukraine, thank you,

BijouPleasurette · 36-40, F

Everybody in my neighbourhood is siding with Ukraine against Putin. Nobody around here is siding with Putin.

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BijouPleasurette · 36-40, F

@ididntknow Because Putin attacked them.

ididntknow · 51-55, M

@BijouPleasurette And what was happening in Ukraine from 2014, or don’t you like to look at history,
If you saw a playground fight, and the person being attacked was on top of the aggressor punching him in the face, would you just come to the conclusion that that the man on top was the aggressor and not the victim, or would you put the news on, for them to tell you who the aggressor is and who the victim is, and not think for yourself,

BijouPleasurette · 36-40, F

@ididntknow I don't think anything significant was happening in Ukraine that long ago. This feud they have with Putin has been going on about a year and a half.

As for the playground fight, I would ask witnesses what happened.

AbbySvenz · F

Here’s an article discussing source bias and trying to find the real numbers behind the government reporting:

https://theloop.ecpr.eu/estimating-troop-losses-on-both-sides-in-the-russia-ukraine-war/

SumKindaMunster · 51-55, M

@AbbySvenz Countering bias with a biased source? No surprise here...

Also this was written in February of 2023 and things have changed dramatically in this conflict since then.

The article also only seems to count military losses. No civilian casualties mentioned. Also doesn't bother to count the millions who have been wounded, evacuated, forced to flee, lost their livelihood, etc.

It's pro war propaganda.

AbbySvenz · F

Please tell me how that source was biased.

Did it say it was looking at civilian numbers? No, it did not. Reliable military numbers were hard enough to get @SumKindaMunster

SumKindaMunster · 51-55, M

@AbbySvenz It's pro war propaganda. Makes a lot of points about how Russian stats can't be trusted, but the Ukrainians can. It's war. They are both lying.

Additionally, as already stated it only counts military loses. It doesn't mention the cost to the civilian populations nor the consequences to the entire geographical area.

It's subtly saying that Russia is losing, their losses are greater, even though its not really clear that is true.

You support this war? Why or why not?

TheOneyouwerewarnedabout · 41-45, MVIP

if youve invested billions in puppet regimes and biolabs and nazis to antagonise russia in hopes of joining NATO... yes..

MrBrownstone · 46-50, M

Nope.

NinaTina · 26-30, F

In my opinion i say its a money war

hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M

@NinaTina Sadly in large part you are correct. The US military industrial complex owns the US government and if it wants a war in order to make more money from producing arms then a war the US shall have.

Human1000 · M

Yes, and I can’t think of a better way to spend my tax dollars.

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