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Is Ukraine worth fighting for?

As everyone knows there is a nasty war of attrition going on in Ukraine and Ukraine tragically is losing about 10 soldiers for every 1 soldier that Russia is losing. That makes the war unsustainable but still the question remains "Is Ukraine worth fighting for". I honestly don't care which side 'wins' or which side 'loses. I simply prefer that the war stop immediately. It should never have started. That aside I was able to share a baptism event on the North Saskatchewan River here in Central Alberta. I traditionally associate Ukrainians with the Orthodox or Catholic tradition but this was a Pentecostal service. There were about 100 military age Ukrainian refugees at the service. I didn't get much of what was being said as the service was in Ukrainian led by a pastor who left Ukraine 2 years ago. Most everyone there had left in a similar time frame. Everyone I spoke to said that they did not want to return to Ukraine. Oh and most of them had their wife and children with them. Interesting times we live in. I wonder what it must be like in Poland and Germany where many more Ukrainians are taking refuge.

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Ozymandiaz

If you wouldn't fight for your country that is up to you. Ukrainians have decided that they would fight for theirs and that is up to them.

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hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M

@Ozymandiaz Well given that there are Millions of Ukrainians who left Ukraine rather than fight for it...... I think you missed that point. The war should never have started and had the US stayed home there would be peace in the region.

Ozymandiaz

@hippyjoe1955 So you would put women, children and the elderly and infirm on the frontlines? Because they would be the majority of the millions you are talking about

hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M

@Ozymandiaz I would much prefer peace. Yankee go home. There is no need for this war and it was started by the US. It needs to stop. In the meantime 1/2 of the Ukrainian population is no longer in Ukraine and that includes a lot of military age men.

Ozymandiaz

@hippyjoe1955 Oh right I wasnt aware that the US invaded Ukraine

hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M

@Ozymandiaz Do a bit of study on the history of the US involvement in Ukraine. It may open your very closed eyes to the real reasons for this stupid war.

Ozymandiaz

@hippyjoe1955 Pot kettle 😂

hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M

@Ozymandiaz Given that I have read both sides of the argument and have daily contact with people from Ukraine.... I suspect I am a lot better informed than you who is reciting CIA talking points to the letter. You have been conned and are too ignorant of facts to realize it. The people I give credence to are those whose predictions have come true. There are a lot of American voices and British voices and European voices who have said that this war would not end well for Ukraine. Given that Ukraine has lost 500,000 KIA soldiers I think those voices were much more correct than the polyanas in the US who think that Russia is 'Spain with a gas station'. That Russia will fold like a cheap tent. That Ukraine will take Crimea in a matter of weeks. Yesterday Ukraine had around 700 troops killed. That kind of attrition is simply not sustainable. The war has got to stop. Yankee go home.

Ozymandiaz

@hippyjoe1955 I don't disagree that NATO provoked the war but they didn't start it. Let's not be disingenuous about this. Russia invaded Ukraine thus starting the war. So why lie?

hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M

@Ozymandiaz Yeah they did start the war. When the USSR collapsed in 1991 NATO promised that after the reunification of Germany NATO would NOT expand 1 inch east. In a few years NATO is on Russia's border. It was trying to bring in Georgia and Ukraine and by doing so cut Russia from its warm water ports on the Black Sea. Russia has a massive naval base in Crimea. If Ukraine became part of NATO then it would lose that Naval base. It couldn't do that so when the US toppled the duly elected Ukrainian president in 2014 and installed their puppet Russia moved and took Crimea. The Ukrainian government then went on a killing spree and wiped out 15000 Ukrainian citizens who spoke Russian at home. NATO (the US) is the aggressor in this war.

Ozymandiaz

@hippyjoe1955 For someone who claims to read a lot I notice that you have problems with comprehension. You cannot discern the difference between starting a war and provoking one.

hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M

@Ozymandiaz YAWN. If that is all you have to say you are not worth engaging with.

Ozymandiaz

@hippyjoe1955 Do be like that 😂

hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M

@Ozymandiaz In mean time I am heading out in a bit to take a Ukrainian family to church. They fled Ukraine almost 2 years ago and are doing everything they can to become Canadian citizens . They do not want to return to Ukraine. Yes they cheer for the land of their birth but they know that the nation they were born in does not exist anymore. It is a failed corrupt state that they want nothing more to do with.

ididntknow · 51-55, M

@Ozymandiaz Do you know what a proxy war is ?

Ozymandiaz

@ididntknow Do you know the difference between a hot war and a cold war?

ididntknow · 51-55, M

@Ozymandiaz yes, do you

Ozymandiaz

@ididntknow No I thought I would call on your superior expertise as a regular mastermind to help me out

ididntknow · 51-55, M

@Ozymandiaz you could always look it up on the internet, couldn’t you, so run along

Ozymandiaz

@ididntknow Or I could ask you 😂

Baremine · 70-79, C

@Ozymandiaz it would be nice if the citizens of the USA would fight to preserve our country and get these socialist, communist democrats out of power. Our government is supposed to be of the people, by the people, and for the people, not dictated by comrade Biden and his hooligans.

specman · 51-55, M

@hippyjoe1955 another win for the communist if the US and NATO stayed out of it. It just ain’t the US.

hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M

@specman Too funny. Have you ever looked at a fellow named Trotsky? He believed in constant war and revolution. He was a big name in the Russian revolution and was eventually driven out of the Soviet Union because they realized you can't have constant war and revolution if you want a stable country. Yeah his ideology is held by the American neocons who are the ones pushing the wars all over the world. They like Trotsky believe that war and revolution is good for the world. They are evil and you are defending them. You look a bit foolish trotting out the old communist canard. Not realizing that the US has become what it 'fought' in Germany and Korea and Vietnam and......

Baremine · 70-79, C

@hippyjoe1955 especially under Obama and Biden.

hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M

@specman OH and BTW NATO is an arm of the US government. If the US says jump all the other members ask how high. It is easier to go along with the US on such silly wars than it is to fund their own armed forces.

specman · 51-55, M

@hippyjoe1955 No. That is incorrect. That is NOT how NATO works. The USA is powerful, but it does not control NATO. You can foolishly think it does though. There is opposition to every country in NATO. No one country rules another in NATO and the US is still not responsible for the war.

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