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zonavar68 · 51-55, M
@walabby I'm sure just like sexual preferences and sexual/gender identities changing over time people's views about religion and choosing to accept or reject such can change over time too. I know mine has, and it seems yours has, and nothing wrong with that providing it's not used as a way to berate others for having a different point of view.
Ahhhh, a tricky one! Hahaha You sneaked that one in on me. hahaha Very good!!
Romans 14:5-8, provides the most definitive answer to the question about celebrating Christmas.
Let's look at this in context. Paul saw that a serious problem of judging, was going on within the church, from the two classes of believers. It is important to note, that this problem of judging, was not coming from only one class of the believers. The Jews judged their Gentile brethren, for not keeping the feasts and other holidays, that were related to the sanctuary. The Gentiles on the other hand, judged their Jewish brethren for taking foods that were sacrificed to pagan idols.
In the case of the Church at Rome, some of the Jewish converts still held in high esteem, the various ceremonial holy days, such as the annual feasts, and monthly new moon festivals, [u]even though the death of Christ had brought these sanctuary ordinances to an end[/u] (Matthew 27:50-51, Ephesians 2:15, Colossians 2:14-16). The problem Paul had with the Jewish believers, was not even related to the fact that they were regarding ordinances that had no place in the Church at that time, but the fact that they actually went forward to judge their Gentile brethren as "second class Christians" because they refused to honor such ordinances.
Paul's counsel to the Jewish converts was simple. They could continue to keep or regard the celebration of the ceremonial holy days, [u]if they wanted to[/u]. It was to the [u]Lord[/u] they were keeping those ceremonial days. But as far as the apostle was concerned, the Gentile converts had the liberty not to regard the ceremonial holy days, because Christ had died.
This text in Romans 14:5 has [i]nothing [/i] to do with the supposed Christian liberty to utilise any day of the week, as the usual weekly worship day. The issue was basically about the celebration of the ceremonial holy days, in relation to the Israelite sanctuary service. Acts 13:42-44; Acts 16:13-15; Acts 17:1-2; Acts 18:4).
Romans 2:16 "LET NO MAN THEREFORE JUDGE YOU in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holy day, or of the sabbath days."
Romans 14:5-8, provides the most definitive answer to the question about celebrating Christmas.
Let's look at this in context. Paul saw that a serious problem of judging, was going on within the church, from the two classes of believers. It is important to note, that this problem of judging, was not coming from only one class of the believers. The Jews judged their Gentile brethren, for not keeping the feasts and other holidays, that were related to the sanctuary. The Gentiles on the other hand, judged their Jewish brethren for taking foods that were sacrificed to pagan idols.
In the case of the Church at Rome, some of the Jewish converts still held in high esteem, the various ceremonial holy days, such as the annual feasts, and monthly new moon festivals, [u]even though the death of Christ had brought these sanctuary ordinances to an end[/u] (Matthew 27:50-51, Ephesians 2:15, Colossians 2:14-16). The problem Paul had with the Jewish believers, was not even related to the fact that they were regarding ordinances that had no place in the Church at that time, but the fact that they actually went forward to judge their Gentile brethren as "second class Christians" because they refused to honor such ordinances.
Paul's counsel to the Jewish converts was simple. They could continue to keep or regard the celebration of the ceremonial holy days, [u]if they wanted to[/u]. It was to the [u]Lord[/u] they were keeping those ceremonial days. But as far as the apostle was concerned, the Gentile converts had the liberty not to regard the ceremonial holy days, because Christ had died.
This text in Romans 14:5 has [i]nothing [/i] to do with the supposed Christian liberty to utilise any day of the week, as the usual weekly worship day. The issue was basically about the celebration of the ceremonial holy days, in relation to the Israelite sanctuary service. Acts 13:42-44; Acts 16:13-15; Acts 17:1-2; Acts 18:4).
Romans 2:16 "LET NO MAN THEREFORE JUDGE YOU in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holy day, or of the sabbath days."
DeWayfarer · 61-69, M
No. And because they actually took over the winter solstice holiday.
If they believe the bible is true then they should know that Jesus had to have been born in the spring by that very book.
Anything less means they don't believe in the bible themselves! Or they believe in lying!
If they believe the bible is true then they should know that Jesus had to have been born in the spring by that very book.
Anything less means they don't believe in the bible themselves! Or they believe in lying!
DeWayfarer · 61-69, M
@Zeusdelight on my own reply it's expected! I have the right to uphold my own reply.
Anything else is a troll because they can just as easily reply to the OP leaving me out of it! Or once again make their own cotton picking post which I'm not likely to reply to.
Notice I haven't replied to ANYONE else.
BTW this is how this sites algorithm partially awards reputation! Stick to your own replies you're totally safe. Troll on others replies you are not rewarded.
Anything else is a troll because they can just as easily reply to the OP leaving me out of it! Or once again make their own cotton picking post which I'm not likely to reply to.
Notice I haven't replied to ANYONE else.
BTW this is how this sites algorithm partially awards reputation! Stick to your own replies you're totally safe. Troll on others replies you are not rewarded.
BiblicalWarrior · 51-55, M
@DeWayfarer Actually, Jesus was born in the fall, around September or October.
DeWayfarer · 61-69, M
@BiblicalWarrior the date was picked because the people of those times where so called "heathens".
The real time doesn't matter to them.
My point was... [quote]they actually took over the winter solstice holiday.
[/quote]
The real time doesn't matter to them.
My point was... [quote]they actually took over the winter solstice holiday.
[/quote]
JohnnyNoir · 56-60, M
@zonavar68
People should be able to celebrate Christmas as they like, but I'm saying for Christians, it's not about the religions of this world. Jesus didn't die for religions. He died for people and when one commits to Christ as their Savior, we consider it a personal relationship with Christ, not with religion. Religion didn't die on the cross for our sins but Jesus did. And yes anyone can X Out Christ if they want. That's not my point. Just don't ask a true Christian to do it. His death meant something very deep to us and personal because he died for me as a person, not some denomination. It is a way of life in Jesus was against religion himself. Religion to him was nothing but man-made philosophy and that was the points I was making. For true followers of Christ, there is no Christmas without Christ.
People should be able to celebrate Christmas as they like, but I'm saying for Christians, it's not about the religions of this world. Jesus didn't die for religions. He died for people and when one commits to Christ as their Savior, we consider it a personal relationship with Christ, not with religion. Religion didn't die on the cross for our sins but Jesus did. And yes anyone can X Out Christ if they want. That's not my point. Just don't ask a true Christian to do it. His death meant something very deep to us and personal because he died for me as a person, not some denomination. It is a way of life in Jesus was against religion himself. Religion to him was nothing but man-made philosophy and that was the points I was making. For true followers of Christ, there is no Christmas without Christ.
I just want to add, that celebration of Christ, began at his birth.
In the early days of Christianity, different churches celebrated Jesus’ birthday on different days. January 6th was the most popular day, but December 25th gradually became more popular. The Christmas holiday was originally celebrated for 12 days, from December 25th to January 6th. This was known as the Twelve Days of Christmas. In the early 1800s, Christmas became a national holiday in the United States.
In the early days of Christianity, different churches celebrated Jesus’ birthday on different days. January 6th was the most popular day, but December 25th gradually became more popular. The Christmas holiday was originally celebrated for 12 days, from December 25th to January 6th. This was known as the Twelve Days of Christmas. In the early 1800s, Christmas became a national holiday in the United States.
Tanya02 · 41-45, F
I'd say that's up to them and their own beliefs and values.
We know that we don't know the exact date that Jesus of Nazareth was born - and that the date was chosen by the Roman Church to replace the pre-Christian Celtic festival of winter solstice.
We know that Christmas in the West has been blown up into a huge commercial enterprise to encourage consumers to spend - often more than they can afford - and to commit huge amounts of wastage in the form of packaging that goes to landfill.
But on the other hand - if you believe that Jesus really is the Messiah and Saviour of Mankind, or even just a very wise man whose advice is worth heeding, why not celebrate his birth? It's a way of celebrating the value and beauty of unconditional love.
The principle of generosity is also worth celebrating and practicing.
Although it could perhaps be better practised as a daily norm.
I've always loved the bumper sticker, "Practise random acts of kindness and beauty".
If someone really hates the commerciality of Xmas but loves the idea of giving and love, why not do it differently.
Give whatever you can afford in money or labour to charity.
Write letters to old friends catching up on the year's news.
And, where possible, practise acts of reconciliation with friends and family.
Whatever it is, let it be sincere, not just an act of social duty or good manners.
We know that we don't know the exact date that Jesus of Nazareth was born - and that the date was chosen by the Roman Church to replace the pre-Christian Celtic festival of winter solstice.
We know that Christmas in the West has been blown up into a huge commercial enterprise to encourage consumers to spend - often more than they can afford - and to commit huge amounts of wastage in the form of packaging that goes to landfill.
But on the other hand - if you believe that Jesus really is the Messiah and Saviour of Mankind, or even just a very wise man whose advice is worth heeding, why not celebrate his birth? It's a way of celebrating the value and beauty of unconditional love.
The principle of generosity is also worth celebrating and practicing.
Although it could perhaps be better practised as a daily norm.
I've always loved the bumper sticker, "Practise random acts of kindness and beauty".
If someone really hates the commerciality of Xmas but loves the idea of giving and love, why not do it differently.
Give whatever you can afford in money or labour to charity.
Write letters to old friends catching up on the year's news.
And, where possible, practise acts of reconciliation with friends and family.
Whatever it is, let it be sincere, not just an act of social duty or good manners.
TheWildEcho · 56-60, M
@helenS Absolutely. I don't celebrate the "day" of Christmas. I celebrate Christmas ON the 25th day, like most Christians do. I can do that, nothing wrong with that, but I celebrate the birth of Christ, and I choose to honor him for coming to this world, but I celebrate him, every day, as well. Paul, in Romans, said it is acceptable to celebrate His birth when we like. Really has nothing to do with the day, he was saying, but I wasn't talking about celebrating Christmas in my last message to you. I was talking about Good Friday as not being designated as the day set aside for salvation.
saragoodtimes · F
smiler2012 · 56-60
Midnightoker1 · 61-69, M
dancingtongue · 80-89, M
As @checkoutanytime's post indicates, it really wasn't celebrated until the mid-1800s except as a solemn mass, and the more extreme forms of Christianity including the Pope frowned on more festive forms of celebration since they had been co-opted from pagan solstice celebrations in attempts to convert them. Dickens' [i]A Christmas Carol[/i] is based on this conflict of the times, and did a lot to turn it into a festive period of embracing family and friends, of promoting good will towards all men, which is consistent with Christ's teachings to us. It is ironic that the over-commercialization of Christmas in the last 50 years or so is now being embraced by self-proclaimed "true" Christians in a culture war against those who broaden the concept of "good will towards all" to recognize that practically all religions have holidays at this time of year. And Some how "Happy Holidays" becomes an offensive attack on Christianity.
@dancingtongue The church in Rome began formally celebrating Christmas on December 25 in 336, during the reign of the emperor Constantine. As Constantine had made Christianity the effective religion of the empire, some have speculated that choosing this date had the political motive of weakening the established pagan celebrations.
Christmas originated from the celebration of the birth of Jesus Christ. However, the exact date of Jesus’ birth is unknown. Christmas was already being celebrated by the Roman Empire and it was a time where they celebrated the winter solstice and the birth of the sun god.
Christmas originated from the celebration of the birth of Jesus Christ. However, the exact date of Jesus’ birth is unknown. Christmas was already being celebrated by the Roman Empire and it was a time where they celebrated the winter solstice and the birth of the sun god.
NickiHijab · F
checkoutanytime · M
@checkoutanytime The church in Rome began formally celebrating Christmas on December 25 in 336, during the reign of the emperor Constantine. As Constantine had made Christianity the effective religion of the empire, some have speculated that choosing this date had the political motive of weakening the established pagan celebrations.
Christmas originated from the celebration of the birth of Jesus Christ. However, the exact date of Jesus’ birth is unknown. Christmas was already being celebrated by the Roman Empire and it was a time where they celebrated the winter solstice and the birth of the sun god.
In the early days of Christianity, different churches celebrated Jesus’ birthday on different days. January 6th was the most popular day, but December 25th gradually became more popular. The Christmas holiday was originally celebrated for 12 days, from December 25th to January 6th. This was known as the Twelve Days of Christmas. In the early 1800s, Christmas became a national holiday in the United States.
Christmas originated from the celebration of the birth of Jesus Christ. However, the exact date of Jesus’ birth is unknown. Christmas was already being celebrated by the Roman Empire and it was a time where they celebrated the winter solstice and the birth of the sun god.
In the early days of Christianity, different churches celebrated Jesus’ birthday on different days. January 6th was the most popular day, but December 25th gradually became more popular. The Christmas holiday was originally celebrated for 12 days, from December 25th to January 6th. This was known as the Twelve Days of Christmas. In the early 1800s, Christmas became a national holiday in the United States.
Adstar · 56-60, M
Well it is good to have a good meal with the family and it is good to give gifts to others.. I have little trouble enjoying the day.. I do not place any religous significance to the day because i know Jesus was not born on Christmas day.. As long as i hold that position then i have no problems enjoying the day...
The Biblical scriptures do not pinpoint the day Jesus was born but it does reveal the time of year.. Jesus was born in or around the 7th month of the year..
The Biblical scriptures do not pinpoint the day Jesus was born but it does reveal the time of year.. Jesus was born in or around the 7th month of the year..
Adstar · 56-60, M
@LadyGrace Christians don't mix paganism with the Gospel.. Jesus warned His followers of the leaven of the pharisees, mixing the traditions of men in with the Word of God.. same thing happened in the catholic religion they mixed paganism in with the Word of God.. It may have been well intentioned but it lead to great deception and the undermining of the Gospel message that saves..
@Adstar Romans 14:5-8, provides the most definitive answer to the question about celebrating Christmas.
It's important to look at this in context. Paul saw that a serious problem of judging, was going on within the church, from the two classes of believers. It is important to note, that this problem of judging, was not coming from only one class of the believers. The Jews judged their Gentile brethren, for not keeping the feasts and other holidays, that were related to the sanctuary. The Gentiles on the other hand, judged their Jewish brethren for taking foods that were sacrificed to pagan idols.
In the case of the Church at Rome, some of the Jewish converts still held in high esteem, the various ceremonial holy days, such as the annual feasts, and monthly new moon festivals, even though the death of Christ had brought these sanctuary ordinances to an end (Matthew 27:50-51, Ephesians 2:15, Colossians 2:14-16). The problem Paul had with the Jewish believers, was not even related to the fact that they were regarding ordinances that had no place in the Church at that time, but the fact that they actually went forward to judge their Gentile brethren as "second class Christians" because they refused to honor such ordinances.
Paul's counsel to the Jewish converts was simple. They could continue to keep or regard the celebration of the ceremonial holy days, if they wanted to. It was to the Lord they were keeping those ceremonial days. But as far as the apostle was concerned, the Gentile converts had the liberty not to regard the ceremonial holy days, because Christ had died.
This text in Romans 14:5 has nothing to do with the supposed Christian liberty to utilise any day of the week, as the usual weekly worship day. The issue was basically about the celebration of the ceremonial holy days, in relation to the Israelite sanctuary service. Acts 13:42-44; Acts 16:13-15; Acts 17:1-2; Acts 18:4).
Romans 2:16 "LET NO MAN THEREFORE JUDGE YOU in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holy day, or of the sabbath days."
It's important to look at this in context. Paul saw that a serious problem of judging, was going on within the church, from the two classes of believers. It is important to note, that this problem of judging, was not coming from only one class of the believers. The Jews judged their Gentile brethren, for not keeping the feasts and other holidays, that were related to the sanctuary. The Gentiles on the other hand, judged their Jewish brethren for taking foods that were sacrificed to pagan idols.
In the case of the Church at Rome, some of the Jewish converts still held in high esteem, the various ceremonial holy days, such as the annual feasts, and monthly new moon festivals, even though the death of Christ had brought these sanctuary ordinances to an end (Matthew 27:50-51, Ephesians 2:15, Colossians 2:14-16). The problem Paul had with the Jewish believers, was not even related to the fact that they were regarding ordinances that had no place in the Church at that time, but the fact that they actually went forward to judge their Gentile brethren as "second class Christians" because they refused to honor such ordinances.
Paul's counsel to the Jewish converts was simple. They could continue to keep or regard the celebration of the ceremonial holy days, if they wanted to. It was to the Lord they were keeping those ceremonial days. But as far as the apostle was concerned, the Gentile converts had the liberty not to regard the ceremonial holy days, because Christ had died.
This text in Romans 14:5 has nothing to do with the supposed Christian liberty to utilise any day of the week, as the usual weekly worship day. The issue was basically about the celebration of the ceremonial holy days, in relation to the Israelite sanctuary service. Acts 13:42-44; Acts 16:13-15; Acts 17:1-2; Acts 18:4).
Romans 2:16 "LET NO MAN THEREFORE JUDGE YOU in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holy day, or of the sabbath days."
@Adstar What I was trying to say is, I don't celebrate the "day" of Christmas. I celebrate Christmas ON the 25th day, like most Christians do. I can do that, nothing wrong with that, but I celebrate the birth of Christ, and I choose to honor him for coming to this world, but I celebrate him, every day, as well. Paul, in Romans, said it is acceptable to celebrate His birth when we like.
Carazaa · F
❤️🌟🌲🌟❤️
[b]OfCourse I celebrate Christmas. Jesus came into the world a humble poor baby but there was no room for him in the inn, so he had to sleep in the barn. Wise men came from faraway lands to give him gifts because they knew he was GOD WITH US. What a mighty God we have![/b]
[b]OfCourse I celebrate Christmas. Jesus came into the world a humble poor baby but there was no room for him in the inn, so he had to sleep in the barn. Wise men came from faraway lands to give him gifts because they knew he was GOD WITH US. What a mighty God we have![/b]
MrBrownstone · 46-50, M
Heavenlywarrior · 36-40, M
zonavar68 · 51-55, M
Christmas is a religious experience for some and for others it has no religious significance at all. How you 'celebrate' it is irrelevant compared to how another person does. I usually 'celebrate' by being at work but this year for the first time I get to have my 5 y/o daughter. Will be just us - I have no romantic partner - and unless my older adults kids are available connecting with everyone else will be phone or video chatting. BTW I'm not religious so don't care about any Christian stuff surrounding Xmas.
Diotrephes · 70-79, M
@IM5688 Celebrating Christmas is an oblique way of observing the 4th Commandment = Exodus 34:20 (TLB) =
"20 The firstborn colt of a donkey may be redeemed by giving a lamb in its place. If you decide not to redeem it, then its neck must be broken. But your sons must all be redeemed. [b][i]And no one shall appear before me without a gift.[/i][/b]"
The ritual is a repeat of the wise men bringing gifts to baby Jesus because they recognized him as the king of the Jews.
"20 The firstborn colt of a donkey may be redeemed by giving a lamb in its place. If you decide not to redeem it, then its neck must be broken. But your sons must all be redeemed. [b][i]And no one shall appear before me without a gift.[/i][/b]"
The ritual is a repeat of the wise men bringing gifts to baby Jesus because they recognized him as the king of the Jews.
SW-User
I don't judge others for what they celebrate. This isn't my job. Personally my family only celebrates the holidays commanded to be observed in the Bible. We used to celebrate both Christmas and Easter, but after finding out the true origins of these holidays we stopped observing these 2 holidays. Now, I think Elohim knows our hearts, so I don't think it is wrong to celebrate these holidays. It is just something that wasn't right for my family.
DiegoWolfe · 36-40
zonavar68 · 51-55, M
@DiegoWolfe True christians accept all views, but many christians hide behind their love of god and guns.
DiegoWolfe · 36-40
@zonavar68 I consider Real Christians as not the title "True Christians" they are the faithful and true believers, "True Christians" thumb their gold plated bibles and carry their platinum crosses and tout how they are going to heaven and everyone else is hell bound, so my friend you are a believer and sacred to me, as an ally of my Pagan Ass
Diotrephes · 70-79, M
@Tanya02 Will you be so kind as to take some time to compare the ancient and modern Greek alphabets to the Greek letters used in manuscript and render your opinion?
http://www.ancientgreecereloaded.com/files/ancient_greece_reloaded_website/images/pictures/greek.png
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koine_Greek#/media/File:P46.jpg
You may need to use a high magnification but you should be able to see the omega symbol, which is only in the Modern Greek alphabet.
One thing the conmen always do is to make fuzzy copies so that it is hard to verify them.
http://www.ancientgreecereloaded.com/files/ancient_greece_reloaded_website/images/pictures/greek.png
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koine_Greek#/media/File:P46.jpg
You may need to use a high magnification but you should be able to see the omega symbol, which is only in the Modern Greek alphabet.
One thing the conmen always do is to make fuzzy copies so that it is hard to verify them.
ChipmunkErnie · 70-79, M
Depends on your POV, I guess. Certain Christian sects are very much against celebrating Christmas,others are all for for. The funniest thing is that no one knows when Christ was born and the Christmas date is stolen from older pagan festivities. Basically, I figure you should celebrate how you want.
NightsWatch · M
OogieBoogie · F
ANYONE should be free to celebrate Christmas . Its the season of 'goodwill towards all men', not that it [i]should[/i] need a season .
Trying to own, or restrict something like Christmas is silly. Its a 'feel', its a 'vibe' ....its fun.
And there's no singular way in which it is celebrated. Some adhere to religious traditions, some adhere to popularised traditions , some make their own Christmas traditions .
Its all good🤗
Trying to own, or restrict something like Christmas is silly. Its a 'feel', its a 'vibe' ....its fun.
And there's no singular way in which it is celebrated. Some adhere to religious traditions, some adhere to popularised traditions , some make their own Christmas traditions .
Its all good🤗
Pretzel · 61-69, M
always thought it was kinda funny that the only person not getting any presents is the birthday boy
hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M
It truly doesn't matter. You are not any better for celebrating or not celebrating a holiday.
SW-User
Yes true ones can, but them false ones can go fuck themselves, sayeth the Lord.
EsculationOfEpiphaniesAndCosmi · 70-79, M
Yes the should, everyone should because it's lovely
Spoiledbrat · F
It's a holiday so yes and people can do whatever they want.
BackyardShaman · 61-69, M
Sure, but they should never vote.
Dacrowman · 70-79, M
🤷
Human1000 · M
Should Christians get pleasure from killing?
Diotrephes · 70-79, M
@Tanya02 That is written in the Modern Greek alphabet, so it is a fake.
Look at the manuscript and them compare the letters to the ones on this chart = http://www.ancientgreecereloaded.com/files/ancient_greece_reloaded_website/images/pictures/greek.png
If you pay close attention you will see letters from the Modern Greek alphabet in the manuscript.
Look at the manuscript and them compare the letters to the ones on this chart = http://www.ancientgreecereloaded.com/files/ancient_greece_reloaded_website/images/pictures/greek.png
If you pay close attention you will see letters from the Modern Greek alphabet in the manuscript.
Tanya02 · 41-45, F
I have studied it and you are wrong@Diotrephes
RocktheHouse · M
Yes we should celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ. That doesn't mean Santa Claus or Christmas trees.
Christmas is celebrated in many places on January 6th or Jan 7th. The early church celebrated Christmas on Jan 6 or 7 and most Eastern Orthodox Christians still observe Jan 6 or 7 as Christmas.
There are some wild theories that Christmas is a pagan holiday. Some people claim the Pope moved the date to dec 25 to align with Sol Invictus or Saturnalia. While we may not know the exact date of Christmas, it is a fact that the early church did not borrow Christmas from pagans. The pagans hated Christians and they hated Christmas.
Christmas is celebrated in many places on January 6th or Jan 7th. The early church celebrated Christmas on Jan 6 or 7 and most Eastern Orthodox Christians still observe Jan 6 or 7 as Christmas.
There are some wild theories that Christmas is a pagan holiday. Some people claim the Pope moved the date to dec 25 to align with Sol Invictus or Saturnalia. While we may not know the exact date of Christmas, it is a fact that the early church did not borrow Christmas from pagans. The pagans hated Christians and they hated Christmas.
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empanadas · 31-35, M
Yeah, just like non Christians should celebrate Christmas