Christians: In your honest, non-antagonistic opinion, why do you think that atheists are atheist?
I encourage Christians to answer honestly and Atheists to respond with correction or affirmation without either party taking things personally or becoming combative.
The word "atheist" needs to be qualified. Christians tend to think that it's only a disbelief in their particular god, but in fact it's a lack of belief in ANY god. Christians are atheists in all gods except one... XD
I went to a Catholic school, was utterly indoctrinated from childhood to be faithful, go to church, and pray to God, etc. Ironically, that same school educated me to the level that my intellect began to question my faith to the point I found it harder and harder to retain my belief in God. We had a timid religious teacher and she'd regularly be unable to pacify an unruly class who also seemed to lack faith and her lessons often descended into mild anarchy.
I looked at the Bible teachings as if it were evidence in a legal case and reasoned that none of it would be acceptable in a courtroom. It was all hearsay, the events described many years after the time they allegedly happened. They were written by people who often weren't witness to the events, but heard it second or third hand. The "evidence" was also presented in an ancient language nobody spoke anymore and was subject to multiple translations in different languages by a myriad people who often mistranslated an already contentious text. It all just seemed ludicrous and going to church appeared arcane and somewhat pointless.
@walabby There was no guy named "Jerome" because there were no "J" words at that time. And there is no legitimate copy of the Bible he is claimed to have written.
@Diotrephes He translated the Vulgate from Hebrew in the late fourth century. Previous Latin translations were from the Septuagint... "Jerome, also known as Jerome of Stridon, was a Catholic priest, confessor, theologian, and historian; he is commonly known as Saint Jerome. Jerome was born at Stridon, a village near Emona on the border of Dalmatia and Pannonia. Wikipedia Born: Stridon Died: 30 September 420 AD, Bethlehem Notable work: Vulgate; De viris illustribus; Chronicon Place of burial: Basilica Papale di Santa Maria Maggiore, Rome, Italy Full name: Eusebius Sophronius Hieronymus Attributes: Lion, cardinal attire, cross, skull, trumpet, owl, books and writing material Education: Catechetical School of Alexandria"
Note that his birth name was Eusebius Sophronius Hieronymus. No wonder that it was shortened!
@walabby Christianity was a verbal religion in ancient times. There was no central publishing house churning out Bibles to be sent to the outer reaches of the area. Sure, there were bits and pieces of various manuscripts but there was not a single book that had all of the fairytale.
In the 630s-early 640s Uthman had a committee write the Koran. Once the Pope heard about that he knew that he had to have the Christian fairytale compiled into a single book So, it was decided to assemble a committee of storytellers, writers, and artists and base it in far off England, safe from the rampaging Muslims. They had to raise a herd of about 2,000 cows for the vellum to write on. Their output was 3 master copies, written in Latin, the language of the Catholic church. Each copy weighed about 75 pounds each and one copy still exists. The Bible was written as a counter to the Islamic Koran. The Christians were then able to inspire the ignorant Crusaders to engage in all kinds of barbaric acts that they probably wouldn't have done i=on their own but the Bible examples where the God character commanded his minions to do those things so that made it acceptable.
Remember, the Bible does not teach morality; it teaches complete obedience and total loyalty to the Boss (God, the chief priest, the emperor, the family father). Disobedience to any of them warrants the death penalty. It's actually like a military code of conduct (total obedience to the guy in charge) for the masses. It even says so.
There are some chapters in the book of Sirach that shows how easy it is to spin the fairytale. Read chapters 44-50 = https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Sirach+44-50&version=CEB
So,as you can see, all you need to know about the characters is their names and a sentence or two about what they did. You can then write your own Bible and it might turn out close to the one that exists now. And it would be very easy to preach to the ignorant masses about those characters because there was nothing that said otherwise. But once the fairytale was actually written down and classified as "real" everyone had to stick to the script.
The storytellers and writers had some fun by including countless conflicting ideas to show that it was just an elaborate hoax. SInce there was no objective editor to discover them, they became true. Today, we can easily find those passages by using a computer. It is very hard to do that just by reading thin page after thin page of paper.
In conclusion, you couldn't find an earlier authentic Bible in any language on this planet for all of the gold in the entire galaxy.
I think anyone of us could believe in a God or be atheists if we are conditioned in a setting that shapes us to do so.
I have friends who believe in God, aliens, Matrix, Oracle's, dream symbolism and everything in between. Some like Trump some like Biden. Some hate politics and couldn't give a rat fuck. I have friends who are strictly believing in only scientific explained facts. It's a big mix.
And I don't think anyone is necessarily wrong or right. Everyone is free to have their own truth and interpret life their own way. It would be so boring if everyone on earth agreed on the exact same thing.
My grandmother worked in church including was in a choir but I never saw her pray outside church or ever even mention Jesus or God outside her church community where she met all her friends. To her I think it was more about the community, a way to meet people.
My parents are super anti religion. My dad is more spiritual laid. They were more like hippies in behaviour and lifestyle. But we are baptized in a church. It's that and funerals that was the only Christian part of our lives besides Christmas. But Christmas was never about Jesus for us. It was just a warm hopeful holiday in the cold dark.
In Sweden it's not that big of a deal if someone is Christian or not or how much they practice a religion. It doesn't measure someone's value as a person. We have very few extreme Christians compared to America.
Yeah I would agree that so many in Sweden have forgotten who gave them their incredible wealth, peace, freedom and equality. Same in the USA. And maybe Swedes are wondering what happened to their peaceful country?
What do you think is the reason for all the apartment bombings, daily gang shootings, floodings, war, inflation, tick invasions, freeways collapsing? Just curious?
I believe God means business when he says to us "The country who's God is the Lord, WILL BE BLESSED" Just curious [i]why [/i] do you think this is happening to our country?
@Carazaa Men hej där granne! Jag är en fjärdedel finsk med 😂
[quote]What do you think is the reason for all the apartment bombings, daily gang shootings, floodings, war, inflation, tick invasions, freeways collapsing? Just curious?[/quote]
I think many people remain atheists because they can't supercede how stunted they are from growing up religious. They reacted against something as teens or young adults, questioned everything they'd been taught, found it wanting, and now live spiritually bereft lives as a consequence, and it's quite sad, particularly with how quick they are to lash out against anyone even mildly religious. I think ego has a lot to do with it. There's a certain self-satisfaction that comes with "knowing" the answer to the big questions. I always hope that the ego, moral relativism, and attitude are things people will grow out of, but so many don't, and so many end up insufferable as a result. I'm not a Christian, so maybe my response doesn't count since the question wasn't directed at me, but I have Christian friends and it's always frustrating to see how callously dismissive or outright shitty atheists tend to be. Ultimately, I'm not sure why anyone would *want* to be one past a certain age, honestly, aside from as a way to reject and move past a traumatically religious upbringing they have yet to fully process.
You might be right but i'd also prefer to have conversation to explore beliefs much as we've done here rather than attempt at the outset to ensure utter clarity and lack of any possible angle of offense for any person.
Oh well i mean in the context of the Santa comparison. You thought it was meant as a dismissal of the belief in god and i explained that it was actually an example of a belief by which i cannot chose to be convinced.
You know, and I say this as an atheist, there is no belief system in the world accompanied by as much condescending smugness as atheism. Like people are STRUGGLING and it's not because we're in a theocracy. Sure the religious right is doing a lot of bullshit but I've met no shortage of bigoted atheists in my time.
It's like the point of this is to find something that is precious to someone who is struggling and take it from them just so you can be smug and right.
And again, I'm an atheist. I do not believe in God in any meaningful way and I am completely irrelligious.
I can totally see how it would come off that way and i agree that it is often deployed in that way. But i believe that clear and honest communication solves a lot of issues lol.
In this case, i made clear that my use of that comparison is not used as a means to trivialize the belief in god but is simply a culturally available example of a belief by which i am not convinced nor could i make the choice to be convinced. Because that's another thing i hear a lot in this context: You [i]choose[/i] not to believe.
@Pikachu It's definitely a choice. You have to actively determine that you are an atheist. You could choose to believe in a conception of God any time. Again, you're being hyper literal.
Because God has not saved them, changed their hearts and given them the Holy Spirit to see truth yet. Most christians were atheists before God saved them. I was changed forever in a moment when God saved me. It is a miracle from God not an act of the will of a person. Yearning for truth, repentance, and humbling oneself is necessary. If this is a consequence of salvation, or the cause is a mystery.
God gave us freedom of choice to believe in Him or not. The devil works hard to lure people away. That is how I view it anyway. While I hope you believe I respect your choice.
@Pikachu It isn't. You're killed in some areas for not believing or practicing a certain belief. I have interviewed refugees who escaped their country's forced religion.
@Pikachu Then no religious people(Muslims, Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Jains, Sikhs, Shinto...) are atheists as per the above definition. However I doubt whether Christians and Muslims consider each other a theist. The above definition holds true for other religions. There is less discrimination among Gods.
Probably varies from individual to individual, there isn't one reason why. A lot of people who call themselves atheist are actually just anti-theists. You cannot hate something that much if you don't think it is at least possible it exists. It being God of course.
