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Why didn't the Blue Wave happen?

Biden will probably win but only just. He badly underscored his polling, as did the Democrats nationally.

Im not interested in Trumpian conspiracy theories about the polls and I get that Biden did win the popular vote on a high turnout. Even so...

Trump increased both his vote share and amount. The Lincoln Project made huge efforts to try and shift Conservatives to Biden but it didn't really materialise. In spite of all the things Trump has said and done, he increased his votes with minorities. In spite of his awful covid handling, he is still favoured by people who prioritise the economy.

Im interested in what people think.
Ynotisay · M
I think people were given the green light, and the cover, to hate and blame under Trump. They were empowered and it grew. For those who prioritize the economy, it's all about "I'm going to get mine." But I'd say 90% of the "real Americans" yelling about that either don't have stock or think their minuscule tax cut is permanent. They don't know it's only permanent for the wealthy. Wall St. is seeing it differently though. They went in with Biden. And there's NO question that the right wing media, and their foreign adversaries, sold pure bullshit to people who get off on fear. That played a big role in the elimination of truth, morality and character.
@Ynotisay here, here!
BlueVeins · 22-25
There [i]was[/i] a blue wave, but there also was a red wave so they kinda canceled out. Trump's ads about Kamala overthrowing Biden and doing SoCiAlIsM seemed absurd to us, but they succeeded at scaring the shit out of his base. So the far-right dummies came out in bigger numbers than before and voted Trump. No doubt Biden suffered from a lack of enthusiasm ofc since his policy is neocon corporatism, but after the pandemic and stuff that's all a lot of people needed.

Edit: Also, the Lincoln Project was a dumb fucking idea, McCarthyism just doesn't sell in 2020 and it's as simple as that.
BlueVeins · 22-25
@QuixoticSoul I mean, I assume they want a red congress & blue presidency since they're Republicans against Trump. I think we're gonna get another fashy though pretty soon.
QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
@BlueVeins The want to liberate the conservative movement from Trump's demagoguery, not to destroy it. I expect they're thrilled.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@QuixoticSoul I think the Lincoln Project and the centrist democrats have the shared objective of wanting to put American politics back to the time when it was the Bush Republicans vrs the Clinton Democrats. Roll back time to the end of history (Fukyama style).

The Republicans can ditch Trump but they were only ever gonna ditch Trumpism if he suffered a landlide defeat. That didn't happen so it makes no sense for them to risk antagonising their base by moving away from right populism (proto-fascism).
Graylight · 51-55, F
I believe while covid hurt Trump, it also helped him. He downplayed his poor response to the virus but emphasized the need to revive and keep the economy going. That way, his message hit at the center that most Americans concerns - their bottom line. People want to return to normal and know their bank accounts will be fine, and Trump championed that issue, even if it all [i]was[/i] a mirage.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@Graylight I think this is probably a really key point.

The correct argument is that its no Covid vrs the economy, its that the economy gets better once you deal with covid. Public health and economics are intertwinned, not mutually exclusive.

Trump got off the hook with his abysmal handling by smearing the democrats as the party of lockdown and anti jobs.
Ynotisay · M
@Graylight Good point. He also got to play the 'tough guy' which seems to really attract a certain type of person.
Kwek00 · 41-45, M
A combination of media diets and the fact that Joe Biden was just a "meh" candidate. I'm more amazed that he still rallied so manny people, how I'm looking at it this moment, it has more to do with the disgust a number of people have for the other side. Especially after how the entire COVID thing was handled. But Joe himself? "Meh"
NoahB · 26-30, M
blue wave didn't happen bc bidens campaign focused on flipping red voters blue. not gunna happen in a million years. republicans love trump no matter what he does. he embodies their 'ideology' too thoroughly.

Biden's campaign also made a ton of appeals by being aggresive and outright hostile to progressive votees. cost him the senate and a bunch of the POC demograph.

If biden wins it will be 100% because of trump hate.

If dems want to hold unto power they will have to chase nonvoters with progressive materially beneficial policies like M4A and GND etc etc
NoahB · 26-30, M
@Elessar yeah thats why i don't waste too much time arguing it. no way to know without looking into the vast span of the multiverse.
Elessar · 26-30, M
@NoahB Maybe we won't see the man in person running anymore, but someone else taking up and continuing his battles is definitely a possibility.
QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
@NoahB I don't see Bernie winning general tbh. Nor do I think he would make a good president.
Super concise!! I thought this too :( it makes me so sad there are so many people whod support him
smiler2012 · 56-60
if you are honest if you look at both candidates neither are shining examples of what a united states president should be i am sure no disrespect to joe he has put up a great campaign even against a dead in the water opponent but i think if the democrats had put up a more dynamic candidate the game would of been up for trump by now@burnley123
Ynotisay · M
@smiler2012 Biden served in the U.S. Senate, with honor, for like 35 years on top of 8 as the VP. The only scandals he's been involved in are fictitious and fed to the brainwashed where they eat it up. NO ONE could convince the cultists of our nation of anything that is in opposition to Trump. I appreciate you mentioning you're British because the reality here is a little different than what you might be aware of on the day to day. Logic and truth don't apply.
smiler2012 · 56-60
@Ynotisay well joe was a military hero compared to his draft dodging shin splint opponent it is sad really and i will be honest i thought this a long time the fickle human being granted everyone is entitled to a view but how can they not see what trump is and what he stands for his core base not sit down and think well yes that is not right what trump is proposing
Ynotisay · M
@smiler2012 Try living around it. Your head would explode. :)
Someone put it great earlier when asked the same. The answer was stark and bloody obvious.

If you target people, call them racist Nazis, and blame every world problem on them, obviously they are not going to vote for you.
uncalled4 · 56-60, M
@Tinkles A really good point, but we live in this strange binary world where people really think that they can go around and name call--Trump is not the only one--and expect cooperation.
@uncalled4 both sides are as bad as each other but was just stating it in context of the question
Ynotisay · M
@Tinkles Both sides are as bad? No. No they're not. You can tell yourself that if you want but it isn't rooted in any reality. It's rooted in what people have been fed by those manipulating Americans. It's like hanging on to what the one climate change denying scientist says without caring that they're paid by an oil company to say that. Creating false equivalences is a tool. It really is.
He caused all the trouble and then spent the majority of his time proclaiming that he had either fixed it or was the only person that could fix it...

...the world has also drifted to places where being an asshole generally is unacceptable, so he gave a lot of resentful assholes their voices back...

I'm glad he didn't get a back to back term...but he will be back!
uncalled4 · 56-60, M
Trump will never win a Dale Carnegie award, but people listen when he speaks/yells/etc. This includes his haters and THAT, in turn, generates more publicity for him...not sure why no one has figured this out. It's a cult of personality and has zero to do with issues, imo. I see hilarious memes that skewer him and guess what? It's just more publicity, which then feeds both the sheeplike public and his narcissism. Want a politician you dislike to really go away? STFU about him or her.

I also think that people vote for someone who they think will work in their best interests, and as the numbers seem to bear out, neither side can claim that.
@uncalled4 this👆
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@uncalled4 I think a lot of his base love him because he pisses off people they dont like. It makes them think he is fighting for their interests, even when he isnt.
uncalled4 · 56-60, M
@Burnley123 Agreed. They feel like they're sticking it to them
Lilymoon · F
I'm not American but it does kinda boggle the mind. 🤷‍♀️
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@Lilymoon Neither am I.
I'm seeing the responses.

I already know the answer which none of them cover.

It's what the bankers want; to see us divided and conquered by our differences, and exploited by commercialization. Unarguable facts.
@Amyrakunejo Who are you saying the bankers are?
QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
@Mandalorian (((them)))
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@Amyrakunejo Well as a socialist, I look at America and still think its pretty weird that class politics in public discourse is most often played by the right against the left.

Im culturally left wing but for me economics defines politics more than the culture war.

P.S. To me both American parties have a right wing political outlook overall. The left of the democrats are the only none neoliberals.
JoeyFoxx · 51-55, M
The radical right wing voices within the Republican Party and the radical Progressive voices within the Democratic Party are not representative of the broader population. Americans are far more centrist than they realize. It’s easy for them to see themselves in candidates on both sides.

Incumbents have a lot of default momentum, unless they really screw up or are just silly (McSally lost AZ because she’s frivolous and Kelly is a locally known and very smart person)
JoeyFoxx · 51-55, M
@LvChris what is the basis for this assessment?
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JoeyFoxx · 51-55, M
@LvChris from my perspective, there has been an emergence of a false conservatism in the 20th century that has resulted in a bizarre over-correction on the left.

It’s ironic (to me anyway) that we are in this situation with the Presidency. I believe strongly that the Compromise of 1877 is the primary reason we are where we are today. We never fully resolved the Civil War. We collectively looked the other way as black Americans were marginalized. Most people felt badly about it, but didn’t have the gumption to challenge the way things were being done.

So, I guess I agree with you.
Picklebobble2 · 56-60, M
Evidently people weren’t convinced.
And perhaps that demonstrates that the American people are a lot smarter than their representatives !

After all. Where was the choice ?
[quote]More of the same from either candidate [/quote] !
whowasthatmaskedman · 70-79, M
While bad politics is an issue in America, the factor that sticks out to me is that after all Trumps antics and broken promises win or lose. 68 million people still voted for him. Thats very disheartening..😷
Harriet03 · 41-45, F
I suggest people watch "The purging of votes" the vanishing of voters in Trumps America.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@Harriet03 That explains some of it but not nearly all.
SumKindaMunster · 51-55, M
It shows that the MSM only represents a slight majority of Americans and there is a healthy population of Americans who neither listen to the MSM, nor the polls.

This bodes well for the future. Think if we can find a politician like Trump who is a little more politically savvy, less combative, and able to build a consensus and cultivate other politicians like him.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@SumKindaMunster Unfortunately, I think you are right.
Harriet03 · 41-45, F
I can't understand how the race is so close after 4yrs of bullshit!! 🤔
QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
People are scared and polarized, basically. The country is super wound up, and the voting is purely emotional. And Trump really did build himself a cult of a sort, that stuff isn't just hype, and will take some time to die off.
@QuixoticSoul Don't you think it says a LOT about both REAL education AND independent thinking that SOOOOO many people actually believe, quite fervently!, that Trump has THEIR best interests at heart...?

Getting people ready to fight to vote against their actual best interests is one of the intended side-effects of pretending that _facts_ are negotiable, etc.

This shows you the hazards of voting for people with no actual moral or scientific compass to give them any sense of having a touchstone with a standard. Lawyers & businesspersons think EVERYTHING is negotiable...even ethics, morality, science...
He has made it so that his followers no longer care about the truth.

So if you think all truth comes from the lips of an inveterate liar...

Our inability to agree on shared FACTS is a huge problem. By nearly any rational measure, he was the least-prepared, most destructive President we have ever had, and esp. has NOT "made America great again", but, in fact, HURT our power & position in the world.

But try telling that to people who don't understand much of anything, even that voting is by Congressional (H of Rep) districts...which is a prime answer to your query, because gerrymandering by Republicans is one of a set of disenfranchisement strategies which have proven to help them.
Pfuzylogic · M
The way the votes came in made Joe’s soon to be win bizarre like with Pennsylvania and Georgia. My shocker was how far off they were with the South Carolina Senate race and I don’t understand how Perdue kept his seat in Georgia after the debacle in his debate.
Steve42 · 56-60, M
Dont worry. They are still counting the mail in votes. It will be a blue wave before its done.
@Steve42 Even if it just laps at one's feet, I believe it will lap at "de feet" of Trump, and be *his* defeat... 😉
QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
@Steve42 No, it will definitely not.
MrsRachelEvans · 26-30, F
I think riots and protests actually scare a lot of people even if they agree with the reasons.
SumKindaMunster · 51-55, M
@Burnley123 Not Joe Biden per say, but the Democrats for sure. It's well known BLM is affiliated with the Democrats and the Democrats pull their strings.
Briggett · T
@SumKindaMunster associate by purely by accident I do believe
QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
@Burnley123 It's the binary right/left without a spectrum thing - Americans are trapped in their two party dynamic, so antifa = democrats, and kkk = republicans. Neither of those are actually true, but it doesn't stop anyone.
I think that many Republicans voted Party but not so much For Trump. 🤷‍♂️
@softspokenman but clearly all the support that party gave Trump the last 4 years didn't hurt them that much
@ImperialAerosolKidFromEP He will take credit for it "I got myself elected."
May 30, 2019
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@softspokenman The polls say he has a huge approval rating among Republicans.
I think it's pretty amazing, but I prepared myself for what nobody expected. I can't explain it though
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