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EllaDisenchanted · F
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BizSuitStacy · M
@SomeLikeItHot Ohhh, the brain dead tide pod eaters who regurgitate CNN's left wing talking points are in charge. It's lovely living in an alternate universe, isn't? Where everyone sings cumbaiya, and flying unicorns Farr glitter. So cute!
Reality. Gun rights advocates have tried. We've pointed to constitutional law. We've tried to educate you about you history. We use facts and logic. We've even tried to educate you about firearms. And it all falls on deaf ears. We won't give another inch. Not one, not ever. No one is going to take away the firearms of law abiding citizens. You live in a fantasy world.
Reality. Gun rights advocates have tried. We've pointed to constitutional law. We've tried to educate you about you history. We use facts and logic. We've even tried to educate you about firearms. And it all falls on deaf ears. We won't give another inch. Not one, not ever. No one is going to take away the firearms of law abiding citizens. You live in a fantasy world.
@BizSuitStacy
Anyone that doesn’t give their firearms up willingly will be in a cell next to who knows who.
Anyone that doesn’t give their firearms up willingly will be in a cell next to who knows who.
BizSuitStacy · M
@SomeLikeItHot anyone who keeps spouting this rhetoric is going to get a spanking and be sent to bed without dinner.
twiggy · 26-30, T
@KnightRanger Compare U.S. gun crime to gun crime in other first world countries, and you will see the problem. Also, compare the frequency of mass shootings between countries. You'll see that the U.S. has an astronomical problem when these comparisons are made. I'm not a supporter of banning firearms outright (I think that's a bit extreme), but I am a supporter of tighter regulations, and no civilian needs an AR-15 for practical reasons. It's not a solution, but it's a start.
redredred · M
Do actual research and you'll see that gun homicides are 50% of what they were in 1995 and that rifles of all kind, including those so-called "assault rifles" were involved in fewer than 300 murders annually. Further research, if you actually bothered to do any, would show that 2% of counties are the venue of 51% of gun homicides.
This is not a hardware problem, this is a software problem.@twiggy
This is not a hardware problem, this is a software problem.@twiggy
Northwest · M
I read the entire thread. Interesting.
I would like to note one thing though. This [b]not[/b] about the AR-15. Massachusetts did not ban the AR-15, it banned high capacity magazines. This was challenged, and the judge ruled that high capacity magazines are not constitutionally protected.
Some other interesting parts of the thread:
1. Meat costs $5 per pound? I don't eat meat, but where I live, the last time I saw $5 per pound meat, it was in the 1990s.
2. Someone believes a .22 caliber rifle is useless. It's not about the caliber, it's about the buller, the load and the design. The AR-15 fires the same ammunition as the current previous versions of the military rifles. It is designed to cause maximum damage, when it hits its victims. Not only that, but it travel through one person, and another and another. It can only travel through walls, and hit one or more people across the street, or across the neighborhood.
People may think an AR15 (or a variant) is good for home defense, but you are more likely to kill your neighbor, than the perpetrator. You are better off with a handgun or a shotgun. That is, if you don't kill your kid, as he's sneaking into the house, past curfew.
3. You may need an AR15, if you're hunting bears, or lions, but perhaps you can apply for a special rifle license, if you want to do that.
4. Yes, focusing on mental, is the best defense. If someone is intent on harming others, they can do a lot of damage, before anyone can respond, and that includes well trained people.
5. Those who want to collect 200 guns, can do so, if they apply for a license as collectors, and only after they pass a serious mental background check.
6. The NRA is not the friend of the casual hunter. It serves, now, as a political extension of the extreme right, and feeds some people's paranoia. Specifically, the irrational fear, of the government "knowing" where your guns are, and the playground of irrational militias.
We can deploy technology, to help us pinpoint where guns are, but that does not play well for the conspiracy nuts, who think they need to "hide" their guns, to defend against a tyrannical government.
I would like to note one thing though. This [b]not[/b] about the AR-15. Massachusetts did not ban the AR-15, it banned high capacity magazines. This was challenged, and the judge ruled that high capacity magazines are not constitutionally protected.
Some other interesting parts of the thread:
1. Meat costs $5 per pound? I don't eat meat, but where I live, the last time I saw $5 per pound meat, it was in the 1990s.
2. Someone believes a .22 caliber rifle is useless. It's not about the caliber, it's about the buller, the load and the design. The AR-15 fires the same ammunition as the current previous versions of the military rifles. It is designed to cause maximum damage, when it hits its victims. Not only that, but it travel through one person, and another and another. It can only travel through walls, and hit one or more people across the street, or across the neighborhood.
People may think an AR15 (or a variant) is good for home defense, but you are more likely to kill your neighbor, than the perpetrator. You are better off with a handgun or a shotgun. That is, if you don't kill your kid, as he's sneaking into the house, past curfew.
3. You may need an AR15, if you're hunting bears, or lions, but perhaps you can apply for a special rifle license, if you want to do that.
4. Yes, focusing on mental, is the best defense. If someone is intent on harming others, they can do a lot of damage, before anyone can respond, and that includes well trained people.
5. Those who want to collect 200 guns, can do so, if they apply for a license as collectors, and only after they pass a serious mental background check.
6. The NRA is not the friend of the casual hunter. It serves, now, as a political extension of the extreme right, and feeds some people's paranoia. Specifically, the irrational fear, of the government "knowing" where your guns are, and the playground of irrational militias.
We can deploy technology, to help us pinpoint where guns are, but that does not play well for the conspiracy nuts, who think they need to "hide" their guns, to defend against a tyrannical government.
EllaDisenchanted · F
@Northwest Yeah, $5 is the going rate here because tiny town, in the mountains and 27 miles to the nearest option. Some people take advantage but meh, free market.
That being said, I want to steal your account pic.
That being said, I want to steal your account pic.
Northwest · M
@EllaDisenchanted Around here, it's about $7 per pound for burger meat and about $12 if you want grass fed beef. I did have a family of deer living on my property, they've grown from 3 to 8 over the years, but that belongs to my ex wife.
The world is cruel, and I'm sure your experience only confirms it. To have your rapist waiting, in your home, must be horrible, but how/why that person ended up there, must be horrible by itself, but that's a different story.
The account pic is free :-) it's a Quasar.
The world is cruel, and I'm sure your experience only confirms it. To have your rapist waiting, in your home, must be horrible, but how/why that person ended up there, must be horrible by itself, but that's a different story.
The account pic is free :-) it's a Quasar.
Jackaloftheazuresand · 26-30, M
@twiggy the first sentence in your reply was a misquote
And you covered all activities did you? Don't think so, therefore you studied something lower but not warfare.
Department of Education and Science and the Welsh Office. (1989). Discipline in schools: Report of the Committee of Enquiry Chaired by Lord Elton. London: HMSO. ISBN 0-11-270665-7
Cohen, N. (1995, December 10). School violence rocketing in 90s. The Independent, London.
Safe to teach?. (2007). NASUWT report. 10.
Reuters. (2008, December 23). Police called to 7,000 violent incidents in schools. The Independent. London.
Violent pupils and parents make teachers' lives a misery. (2009, April 2). ATL press release.
Miloudi, S. (2009, June 28). Two out of five teachers in Wales have been assaulted. Wales on Sunday, Cardiff.
Aitken, Tom (2015). The school leaders guide to Positive Handling. United Kingdom. p. 39.
National Center for Education Statistics. (2008). [1] Indicators of school crime and safety. Retrieved 2009-02-27.
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. (2008). [2] Understanding school violence. Retrieved 2009-02-27.
Eaton D, Kann L, Kinchen S, Shanklin S, Ross J, Hawkins J, Harris WA, Lowry R, et al. (2008). "Youth risk behavior surveillance—United States, 2007". Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report. Surveillance Summaries/CDC [MMWR Surveill Summ]. 57 (4): 1–131. PMID 18528314.
Dinkes, R., Cataldi, E.F., Lin-Kelly, W., & Snyder, T. D. (2007). [3] Indicators of school violence and safety: 2007. Washington, DC: National Center for Education statistics and Bureau of Justice Statistics.
Peek-Asa, C.; Howard, J.; Vargas, L.; Kraus, J. F. (1997). "Incidence of non-fatal workplace assault injuries determined from employer's reports in California". Journal of Occupational and Environmental Medicine. 39 (1): 44–50. doi:10.1097/00043764-199701000-00009. PMID 9029430.
Robers, S., Kemp, J., and Truman, J. (2013). Indicators of School Crime and Safety: 2012 (NCES 2013-036/NCJ 241446). National Center for Education Statistics, U.S. Department of Education, and Bureau of Justice Statistics, Office of Justice Programs, U.S. Department of Justice. Washington, DC. [4]
Williamson, E., & Aratani, L. (June 14, 2005). As school bus sexual assaults rise, danger often overlooked. Washington Post. B01.
Nuefeld, S. (April 10, 2008). [5] School violence appalls officials]. Baltimore Sun.
Schonfeld, I.S. (2006). School violence. In E.K. Kelloway, J. Barling, & J.J. Hurrell, Jr. (Eds). [6] Handbook of workplace violence (pp. 169–229). Thousand Oaks, CA: Sage Publications.
Office of the New York State Comptroller. (2006). Reporting of violent and disruptive incidents by public schools (Rep. No. 2005-S-38). Albany: Author.
California Legislative Analyst Office. (2009). Review of school crime reporting. Sacramento: Author.
Robertz, F.J. (August 1, 2007). "Deadly Dreams: What Motivates School Shootings?". Scientific American: 54–59.
Brown, J.; Munn, P. (2008). "School violence as a social problem: Charting the rise of the problem and the emerging specialist field". International Studies in Sociology of Education. 18 (3–4): 219–230. doi:10.1080/09620210802492807.
Zarembo, A. (June 18, 2016). Are the media complicit in mass shootings? Los Angeles Times.
I don't just think it's true, I told you I had evidence but see how much that is? I can back it up but it's easier to just state a fact. That's evidence that they swept it under the rug, the violence is still there.
Ah yes, treating the mentally unstable doesn't lower it all, yep🙄
And you covered all activities did you? Don't think so, therefore you studied something lower but not warfare.
Department of Education and Science and the Welsh Office. (1989). Discipline in schools: Report of the Committee of Enquiry Chaired by Lord Elton. London: HMSO. ISBN 0-11-270665-7
Cohen, N. (1995, December 10). School violence rocketing in 90s. The Independent, London.
Safe to teach?. (2007). NASUWT report. 10.
Reuters. (2008, December 23). Police called to 7,000 violent incidents in schools. The Independent. London.
Violent pupils and parents make teachers' lives a misery. (2009, April 2). ATL press release.
Miloudi, S. (2009, June 28). Two out of five teachers in Wales have been assaulted. Wales on Sunday, Cardiff.
Aitken, Tom (2015). The school leaders guide to Positive Handling. United Kingdom. p. 39.
National Center for Education Statistics. (2008). [1] Indicators of school crime and safety. Retrieved 2009-02-27.
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. (2008). [2] Understanding school violence. Retrieved 2009-02-27.
Eaton D, Kann L, Kinchen S, Shanklin S, Ross J, Hawkins J, Harris WA, Lowry R, et al. (2008). "Youth risk behavior surveillance—United States, 2007". Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report. Surveillance Summaries/CDC [MMWR Surveill Summ]. 57 (4): 1–131. PMID 18528314.
Dinkes, R., Cataldi, E.F., Lin-Kelly, W., & Snyder, T. D. (2007). [3] Indicators of school violence and safety: 2007. Washington, DC: National Center for Education statistics and Bureau of Justice Statistics.
Peek-Asa, C.; Howard, J.; Vargas, L.; Kraus, J. F. (1997). "Incidence of non-fatal workplace assault injuries determined from employer's reports in California". Journal of Occupational and Environmental Medicine. 39 (1): 44–50. doi:10.1097/00043764-199701000-00009. PMID 9029430.
Robers, S., Kemp, J., and Truman, J. (2013). Indicators of School Crime and Safety: 2012 (NCES 2013-036/NCJ 241446). National Center for Education Statistics, U.S. Department of Education, and Bureau of Justice Statistics, Office of Justice Programs, U.S. Department of Justice. Washington, DC. [4]
Williamson, E., & Aratani, L. (June 14, 2005). As school bus sexual assaults rise, danger often overlooked. Washington Post. B01.
Nuefeld, S. (April 10, 2008). [5] School violence appalls officials]. Baltimore Sun.
Schonfeld, I.S. (2006). School violence. In E.K. Kelloway, J. Barling, & J.J. Hurrell, Jr. (Eds). [6] Handbook of workplace violence (pp. 169–229). Thousand Oaks, CA: Sage Publications.
Office of the New York State Comptroller. (2006). Reporting of violent and disruptive incidents by public schools (Rep. No. 2005-S-38). Albany: Author.
California Legislative Analyst Office. (2009). Review of school crime reporting. Sacramento: Author.
Robertz, F.J. (August 1, 2007). "Deadly Dreams: What Motivates School Shootings?". Scientific American: 54–59.
Brown, J.; Munn, P. (2008). "School violence as a social problem: Charting the rise of the problem and the emerging specialist field". International Studies in Sociology of Education. 18 (3–4): 219–230. doi:10.1080/09620210802492807.
Zarembo, A. (June 18, 2016). Are the media complicit in mass shootings? Los Angeles Times.
I don't just think it's true, I told you I had evidence but see how much that is? I can back it up but it's easier to just state a fact. That's evidence that they swept it under the rug, the violence is still there.
Ah yes, treating the mentally unstable doesn't lower it all, yep🙄
twiggy · 26-30, T
@Jackaloftheazuresand ...It actually really isn't. You said "warfare" (which is a synonym of war) and you said "rebellion". Also, the definition says "or" not and. Read it again.
...Again, we're talking about mass shootings not school violence, so what was the purpose of all those headlines? I have no idea. Why are you trying to change the subject?
And again, I didn't ask for evidence of the existence of school violence...I asked for evidence of your claim that, and I repeat:
[quote]They have it implemented because they have an agenda and it's not about lives. It wasn't needed, they swept the real problem under the rug with the broom of gun control...[/quote]
And...
[quote]Ah yes, treating the mentally unstable doesn't lower it all, yep[/quote]
When did I say that it doesn't lower it at all? I said that the the things that set apart the U.S. from other first world countries (all with mental illness issues) is the fact that we have lax gun laws, and also a higher rate of mass shootings.
I honestly don't know what you're going on about now.
...Again, we're talking about mass shootings not school violence, so what was the purpose of all those headlines? I have no idea. Why are you trying to change the subject?
And again, I didn't ask for evidence of the existence of school violence...I asked for evidence of your claim that, and I repeat:
[quote]They have it implemented because they have an agenda and it's not about lives. It wasn't needed, they swept the real problem under the rug with the broom of gun control...[/quote]
And...
[quote]Ah yes, treating the mentally unstable doesn't lower it all, yep[/quote]
When did I say that it doesn't lower it at all? I said that the the things that set apart the U.S. from other first world countries (all with mental illness issues) is the fact that we have lax gun laws, and also a higher rate of mass shootings.
I honestly don't know what you're going on about now.
Jackaloftheazuresand · 26-30, M
Your reliance on denotation only is not what I'd call inclusive. Synonyms also fail to capture all the values of a word. So you studied the full engagement of war then is what you are saying?
Not changing the subject, I can lower school shootings by addressing all violence at the root. I just told you, it's not about lives because they allowed the violence to continue just because it wasn't guns. I won't repeat that point again. If violence is decreased then so are mass shootings.
Do you agree then that it lowers it? Cuz if it lowers it then bingo, bango, we have a better solution that gets the real problem.
Not changing the subject, I can lower school shootings by addressing all violence at the root. I just told you, it's not about lives because they allowed the violence to continue just because it wasn't guns. I won't repeat that point again. If violence is decreased then so are mass shootings.
Do you agree then that it lowers it? Cuz if it lowers it then bingo, bango, we have a better solution that gets the real problem.
Ynotisay · M
From the Judge's conclusion:
"Massachusetts is free to ban these weapons and large capacity magazines. Other states are equally free to leave them unregulated and available to their law-abiding citizens."
It's still a state rights situation.
What I like is the distinction the judge made about the development of the weapons and their purpose. They're for the military and, in concert with the ammunition used, intended to kill human beings.
But maybe a judge in some "real American state" will determine their best use is to help fearful, insecure men compensate for their little dicks.
"Massachusetts is free to ban these weapons and large capacity magazines. Other states are equally free to leave them unregulated and available to their law-abiding citizens."
It's still a state rights situation.
What I like is the distinction the judge made about the development of the weapons and their purpose. They're for the military and, in concert with the ammunition used, intended to kill human beings.
But maybe a judge in some "real American state" will determine their best use is to help fearful, insecure men compensate for their little dicks.
Moosepantspatty · 31-35, M
@SW-User Thank you! I'd like to see the response of @Ynotisay so we can continue this rationally.
BizSuitStacy · M
Graylight · 51-55, F
@BizSuitStacy They did create one.
BizSuitStacy · M
@Graylight the key word is "standing" meaning full time professional soldiers, ready and available even during peace time. A true standing army did not truly exist in the US until after WWI. There were federal armies prior, but they could only be raised for 2 year periods, and then had to be renewed. were the result of calling upon the militias. Honestly, why aren't people learning history? It's a rhetorical question...I know why.
https://www.fff.org/2013/03/04/gun-control-and-the-dangers-of-a-standing-army/
https://www.fff.org/2013/03/04/gun-control-and-the-dangers-of-a-standing-army/
BizSuitStacy · M
@ladycae Doesn't matter that the burden of proof is on the moronic faction of society that thinks banning firearms magically fixes the problem - which it will not. Doesn't matter that owning firearms is a right protected by law. Doesn't matter that our politicians swear to uphold and defend the entire constitution (not just the parts they agree with). No, no...the queen has spoken. She demands answers. Oh...and what she doesn't tell you is that no matter what answer is provided, it's up to HER to decide if that answer is adequate. That dear queen is the prototypical, tyrannical response that led our founders to drafting the 2A to begin with!
Your sphincter is cutting off the flow of blood to your brain. Pull your head out of your ass before it's too late.
Your sphincter is cutting off the flow of blood to your brain. Pull your head out of your ass before it's too late.
katielass · F
My thoughts are the same as they were yesterday when another user tried to imply this was decided. I put it differently but essentially my thoughts are BFD, it is far from decided. It's no surprise some loony left wing activist judge in MA made such a convoluted ruling. If the challenger pursues it he will eventually win.
KnightRanger · 56-60, M
Flies completely in the face of Miller, which ruled that it was firearms that do not bear "some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia" which cannot be guaranteed protection under the 2nd Amendment (United States v. Miller, 1939).
In fact, it's an obvious attempt to chisel away at the 2nd Amendment – "death by a thousand cuts," and the AR-15 is the starting point because it's a) numerous, b) popular, and c) very clearly [i]does[/i] have application to a well-regulated militia, under 10 U.S. Code § 246 - Militia: composition and classes ("unorganized militia").
See also comments by Tench Coxe, one of our Founding Fathers (U.S.): https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Tench_Coxe). Many other Founders thought similarly.
In fact, it's an obvious attempt to chisel away at the 2nd Amendment – "death by a thousand cuts," and the AR-15 is the starting point because it's a) numerous, b) popular, and c) very clearly [i]does[/i] have application to a well-regulated militia, under 10 U.S. Code § 246 - Militia: composition and classes ("unorganized militia").
See also comments by Tench Coxe, one of our Founding Fathers (U.S.): https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Tench_Coxe). Many other Founders thought similarly.
KnightRanger · 56-60, M
Sure you are. 🙄 lol! Well, the second half of your last statement (from "we got supremely lucky" on...) I agree with, at least. ;-) Here's an article you may find interesting: https://www.lectlaw.com/files/gun01.htm
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QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
@KnightRanger Dude, you literally picked the most insane of the bunch. We're all so tremendously lucky he was one of the more minor figures.
I read that article, there really isn't much new stuff in there. I generally tend to find all the "omg the tyranny" stuff so unimpressive. Tyranny generally happens with massive popular approval anyhow.
And also...
[quote]This view is confirmed by Alexander Hamilton's observation, in The Federalist, No. 29, regarding the people's militias ability to be a match for a standing army: " . . . but if circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude, that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people, while there is a large body of citizens, little if at all inferior to them in discipline and use of arms, who stand ready to defend their rights . . . ."[/quote]Boy how did times change.
I read that article, there really isn't much new stuff in there. I generally tend to find all the "omg the tyranny" stuff so unimpressive. Tyranny generally happens with massive popular approval anyhow.
And also...
[quote]This view is confirmed by Alexander Hamilton's observation, in The Federalist, No. 29, regarding the people's militias ability to be a match for a standing army: " . . . but if circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude, that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people, while there is a large body of citizens, little if at all inferior to them in discipline and use of arms, who stand ready to defend their rights . . . ."[/quote]Boy how did times change.
Thatsright · 61-69, M
Don't let this distract you from the the fact that in 1966, Al Bundy scored four touchdowns in a single game while playing for the Polk High School Panthers in the 1966 city championship game versus Andrew Young Johnson High School, including the game-winning touchdown in the final seconds against his old nemesis, Bubba "Spare Tire" Dixon.
whowasthatmaskedman · 70-79, M
@whowasthatmaskedman I'd like that to go for "failure to report" "stolen," guns please as well, please.
whowasthatmaskedman · 70-79, M
Its even easier than that. The last owner of record is the guy. Period. No ifs and or buts.. If a weapon is stolen, a special offence of "Failure to secure a firearm", is disqualification from owning a license, a hefty fine and jail time. That would make people lock up their guns properly and have security on them. Have all the guns you want. Just be absolutely responsible for them..@MistyCee
WetpantsBoy · M
Moosepantspatty · 31-35, M
@WetpantsBoy so your talking about legal, highly regulated, registered, and prohibitively expensive modifications? Is there a difference to you between that and any other NFA firearm?
Moosepantspatty · 31-35, M
@WetpantsBoy ?
BizSuitStacy · M
@Moosepantspatty wetpantsboy is busy changing. I always love the classic "oh...but it's easy to convert an AR-15 into full auto..." And yet the commentor has no clue what is required.
Lostsavage · 46-50, M
Read it. It says arms for the raising of militia. Kind of antiquated, then, and therefore open to interpretation. Since 1803 the supreme ct. Has interpreted the constitution however they please. Perhaps pipe bombs are illegal. I still know how to make one. Take my firearms, I'll build a catapult, etc. Etc.
windinhishair · 61-69, M
beckyromero · 36-40, F
QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
EugenieLaBorgia · F
Graylight · 51-55, F
It's a 1998 ruling and was simply upheld when it was recently challenged by a gun-rights group.
It covers AR-15's and similar weapons; the AR-15 wasn't singled out.
It covers AR-15's and similar weapons; the AR-15 wasn't singled out.
StrictRyan · 36-40, M
It's a good decision, but that can only be the beginning. Guns will destroy our community one day when they not get banned.
Jackaloftheazuresand · 26-30, M
of course, judges are safe
QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
@Jackaloftheazuresand Most of us are pretty safe. And ironically, by the numbers, guns don't even make you much safer.
Like, in home invasions, people who use guns get injured at the same rates as people who do nothing at all. Apparently, running away and calling the cops is where you see the big improvements in outcomes.
In any case, if a shotgun, etc isn't enough to protect your home... move.
Like, in home invasions, people who use guns get injured at the same rates as people who do nothing at all. Apparently, running away and calling the cops is where you see the big improvements in outcomes.
In any case, if a shotgun, etc isn't enough to protect your home... move.
Jackaloftheazuresand · 26-30, M
@QuixoticSoul Lol, to where? The other countries already gave up their rights, the US is the last bastion.
You think I want guns in this country to defend against common criminals and you are wrong about that.
You think I want guns in this country to defend against common criminals and you are wrong about that.
QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
@Jackaloftheazuresand Ah, you're worried about fighting the army. Well all right.
They are coming to take them away ‼️
BetweenKittensandRiots · 36-40, MVIP
Good.
SW-User
D:
bijouxbroussard · F