@Adrift Funny, we weren't talking about that. We were talking about school shootings, and banning guns. There haven't been any school shootings in the UK since 1996.
@Adrift How is that still not better than mass shootings? With a knife you can't even kill many people at once. With a gun you can kill a lot of people really fast, and it's harder for teachers and police to get the situation under control. Not many people do "mass" stabbings, compared to people who do mass shootings. Most children don't have the guts to stab someone. If you think as many people die from stabbings or other kinds of violence, around the world, as people who die from mass shootings in the US, you are totally wrong. I assume other crimes go up a little when people don't have access to guns, but BY NO MEANS can it be compared to the amounts of deaths caused by guns in the US, like we are not even talking REMOTELY, so how is banning guns not going to improve the situation A LOT?
Nothing to stop them immediately. The US is absolutely saturated with guns and will be accessible for a very long time regardless of whatever laws are made.
@GlitterEater Guards at the front door, other doors locked from outside access, and if it's crime-riddled area like Chicago, metal detectors at the entrance. If would-be shooters don't know where the armed good guys are, most of them won't plan on shooting. If there's only one entrance and they can't just walk in with a gun, most won't try.
1. Lots of people don't want armed guards around them when they go in a bank 2. Children don't spend 7-8 hours a day in a bank 3. I never said it was a gun problem, you just made that up. I like guns.
SW-User
@wildbill83 True in theory, but armed robberies are far less common in the US than mass shootings of children at schools. Get rid of the guns.
@walabby Yup. With the possible exception of Gaza, Lebanon or Syria, schoolchildren will be far safer anywhere else in the world than in the US. How very, very sad.
We need to ask ourselves what was different back when we didn’t have school shootings? We still had guns and most people didn’t even lock them up. We had bullies in school too. So what is different now than it was back then?
the ability to disconnect from reality easily… not being truly present and spending time viewing other people’s posted “highlight reels”. Quick and easy ability to connect online,
We have those things here, and elsewhere too. But we still don't have the same school shooting problem. I think a big problem in the US is a lack of feeling of belonging, a lack of solidarity. And of course it is made worse by easy access to effective long distance weaponry.
SW-User
It’s crazy down there, I don’t know how parents do it. 😞 One thing for sure bullying actually has to become zero tolerance for real not just a half assed slogan. I’ll get a lot of flack, but stricter gun laws, they must pass a mental health check, wait times on purchasing guns. (Ya I know they can be bought illegally too). I hate to say it but, all outer doors to schools be locked when students are in class. Or Homeschool.
So is bullying, and it gets looked past way, way, way too often. It can have such huge negative effects on children (obviously) and it's far too often not punished in any way at all. Such a sad thing.
Our kids started their school experiences in great Montessori programs and that, IMHO, was one of the smartest decisions of our lifetime. A big part of the Montessori process is learning such things as cooperation, helpfulness, community, empathy, respect, and the belief that every child is unique and valued.
For the life of me, Ive never understood public educations resistance to the Montessori methods. The assumption that life skills are learned at home is flawed. Kids at home are usually surrounded by adults with authority and not by other children, so when they show up at school at a young age they don’t always know how to behave when around a dozen other children.
Is there a connection between shrinking family sizes and school shootings? Look at who are the children doing the shooting. They didn’t as young children learn to merge with other children and become members of a children community, nor did the children communities learn to embrace them and make them feel like they belonged. And look at what Maria Montessori accomplished and with what children she achieved it with. Street children. Kids predisposed to becoming gang members, thieves and resentful killers.
Build a wall around the school with razor wire and put armed guards all around with 24 hours surveillance cameras. Bonus it will also make it a warm and cozy inviting place for children. They'll be wanting to go to school!
Or you could just stop a culture of guns for everyone like most other western civilized countries. And with that consider practicing social democracy. And no social does not mean communism! Social is when you openly share what's good for the community with the public's consent. Free access to mental healthcare and hospitals, infrastructure, parks, public transportation, schools, .......
@Diotrephes Why should they be rewarded with lower taxes? It's not as if those jobs (if any) were created out of some charitable impulse and anyway the profit is generated by those working people.
Why should they be rewarded with lower taxes? It's not as if those jobs (if any) were created out of some charitable impulse and anyway the profit is generated by those working people.
If the rich did not invest their money into businesses, would there be any real jobs for the poorer people? Look at other countries for the answer.
I don't think that there's an immediate fix or a single approach. I would suggest a multi aspect approach and it might take many years to see the full effect. I'll float some ideas:
More immediately, schools could become more secure where possible. Gates to prevent free access, metal detector arches to pass through, armed security at the gates.
Gun licensing set up similar to car licensing in terms of mandatory safety training and assessment before license granted.
No licenses for under 21's and that means it's illegal to own or use a gun under 21 except on the premises of licensed shooting ranges, using weapons owned by the range, where the age limit could be 16 or 18.
If anyone under 21 gains unlawful access to their parent's gun through negligence then it's a mandatory 5yr sentence for the parent and if the gun is used to harm others then it's a mandatory life sentence for the parent.
Medical professionals to be able to see patient gun ownership so that any mental health conditions can be red flagged to the licensing board and/or the police as a potential risk of harm.
Any incidences of violation of the terms of the gun license, including safe and appropriate storage, to result in temporary and/or permanent removal of both license and guns. Serious violations to also result in criminal negligence charges.
@UBotMate yes these are really strong ideas!!! Involving medical professionals is one I don't think I've ever come across or had myself. Interesting. Too bad they are stretched so thin already. That said, mental health is a crisis itself, and the field should be expanding and more people should be training for this so why not include weapons safety health professionals. Probably would stand in the way of their gun toting uniformed professionals 🙄 aka cops because half of them shouldn't be allowed the power they have.
The immediate is what really stands out to me in this entire situation in America right now because the rest gets so complicated with the impossibility of removing weapons.
@UBotMate Those ideas will only work if there is a nation wide database of gun owners. How are you going to get that through congress and past the president (any president, not just Trump)?
Immediately? Cancel schools or turn them into high-security prisons for the students.
There are way too many firearms out there and way too many mental health issues being ignored. Not only ignored, but made worse by neglectful and/or abusive parents, society, and the "gun culture" in our nation.
There is no simple solution, the problem is multifaceted and I can't see our leaders ever coming to grips with and dealing with the real root problems.
@Johnson212 I asked about fire. She said they have fire procedures down pretty well. There is only one door to the classrooms and that is through the main hallways, with exit doors leading outside the buildings. The hallways would be the main choke points.
@Adrift Understood but locking doors to prevent unauthorized access into classrooms will not prevent students from leaving in the case of a fire. That there are fewer ways out now is a separate issue. Last school I went to was modern like that, no way out but was basically fire proof, nothing in there would burn, not even the curtains. Everything was brick, metal or fireproof. I guess with some work you could burn a desk if it was wood.
@Johnson212 We had slam bars on the doors leading out of building but the classroom doors were with a handle that could be opened from the inside but not the outside of the classroom.
Nobody really wants to get to the root cause. Prior to Columbine, School shootings were extremely rare. So what really changed? Yeah...social media, and out general values have shifted. But there is more to this story that's much darker. Until we are willing to dig deep and shake up gov't, the only answer is additional armed security at schools.
@Spoiledbrat I agree that parents absolutely need to store their firearms safely. I'm saying that safe gun storage isn't the issue.
There's basically two kinds of school shootings. More common are the gang related shootings that take place on or near school campus. And gang members don't get their guns legally.
Then there is the crazed lunatic, who shoots a bunch of kids because they are angry. Why is that happening?
JD Vance, in his bullet proof box with his armed guards around him yesterday, was telling Americans that school shootings are just a fact of life. SAD!!
"We don’t have to like the reality that we live in, but it is the reality we live in. We’ve got to deal with it." — JD Vance, Sept 5, Biltmore Resort, Phoenix AZ
Yes, dozens of your children will be needlessly killed in school this year, but that's sacrifice the GQP is willing to make to keep the support of the gun lobby.
What can be done? Start by holding the GQP and the gun lobby accountable!!
There are 135,000 schools in America. Even assuming each one only required 2 guards (so that one of them could be on break, or on vacation, or take sick days) that’s 270,000 guards. Assuming their total cost of employment, salary, benefits (health insurance, retirement, taxes, etc.) is $100,000 that would be $27,000,000,000 ($27 billion per year)
I think it makes the most sense to levy a tax per year per gun to pay for the $27 billion to guard schools against guns. There are an estimated 500 million guns in circulation in the US, so $54 per gun per year should do the job.
SW-User
Immediately there can only be more safety measures in the schools. Make it similar to going into a stadium. That's really not a fix though.
Whether it’s giving the car keys car keys or a rifle to a reckless and threatening son, the parents have a responsibility and should suffer consequences if the rifle or car is used to murder or harm another.
SW-User
@Heartlander I don't think it's that simple in regards to parents being responsible for everything but it does seem like if there's a known problem, steps need to be taken to help people, including the parents, before it gets to the point where someone is at the point of endangering others. It's not always easy to catch all of it. It's usually at the point of a crisis, rather than at the prevention level. We need more preventative measures. Like healthcare, get your annual checkups and prevention. Don't wait til you need to go to the emergency room. It might be too late.
I am a gun advocate. That being said there has to be common sense regulations. There is no reason the kid should have gotten a rifle at 14 especially after concerns about mass shootings. I own weapons. My kids do not have access. I would never buy my kid a weapon like that. I would have it secured. This was preventable. Again I am pro gun. But there is many things that can be done to keep them safe
The problem isn't unsecured guns in the household; was never a problem before school shootings (back when everyone had more guns and trigger locks didn't exist...)
The problem is that society teaches people to fear guns instead of respect them
@swirlie It’s fundamentally a society issue. Until America finds a way to care for and protect children and from themselves there are few options beyond military type security measures.
It may take a village to raise a child, so how do we do that when our villages are being dismantled? How do we do that with children left to raise themselves?
@swirlie Disarming American citizens would simply empower our criminal population. Our cities with the strongest gun laws have the highest levels of gun related crime.
The gym i worked at control the locks on the doors with a flip of a switch like a light switch. If it was up the doors were locked. If it was down they were open. Not saying it is perfect but there is way more technology we could be using to help security measures.
@Notsimilarreally we have plenty of security technology already its just no plans have been made to implement it into schools. All our air ports have it.
Instead of clammoring for more gun laws they should enact physical and opperational security in all schools. Something we have needed for a long time. How a 14 year old is able to bring a rifle into school is beyond me. A rifle is just not that hard to detect.
@SW-User Getting out of a country is easy. Moving permanently to another that is better for you is less so. You generally need a residence permit. To get that you either have to have a job, for which you need a work permit, or you have to take a large sum of money with you. These are insurmountable barriers for many people who don't have skills or qualifications that are in demand in the destination country.
And if you are a US citizen you have the added complication of the IRS chasing you for tax even if you are no longer a resident of the US.
@uikakarotuevegeta You don't understand what ad hominem is. It's mostly incels doing it, like I said. How do we solve this? I gave an answer. Think before you speak, do better.
@Johnson212 She wasn't in charge of the problems at the border. Joe Biden was and still is in charge of that problem. Were you forgetting who your President is?
@swirlie When the Biden Harris team took charge in 2020 she was tasked to deal with the root causes of migration from Central America as illegal border crossings were rising in 2021. She totally failed to resolve the self-inflicted crisis at America’s borders. Further, she has a prior track record of opposition to border security and interior enforcement and this helps explain her failure. To think people want a failure for a President.
@Johnson212 Regardless of who was tasked to do what, it is still Joe Biden who's in charge of the border issue, not Harris. She didn't fail at doing anything. The border problem is one that was inherited by the Biden Administration from Trump after Trump dropped the ball on immigration. The border problem did not begin with Biden nor will it end with Biden. If you want to see another failed President, vote for Trump and see how far that gets you in your delusion of reality.
@Notsimilarreally Yes pointless. Beyond 20 kids in most classes with 10, 11, 12 ... year olds it becomes a drill sergeant exercise. Also the class layout. Sit students in columns and rows and the students are interacting with one another. Put them in a semi-circle and they are all face to face with the instructor.
Yes, I agree with everything you've written here and thank you for responding to my post.
You have probably always wondered why I am so socially inclusive, well-behaved and come across with such an intelligent outlook toward most things that are discussed here on SW, right?
Well, I've been hiding it from you up until now, but I really think it's time to let the cat out of the bag. 🐱
I went to private school, K-13. Why 13 instead of 12 you ask? Because in the Canadian school system, grade 13 is optional which is called "University entrance". Grade 13 is the equivalent to the 1st year of university for a Bachelor of Arts Degree for example and the likelihood of being accepted by a Canadian university post high school is almost guaranteed for those who accept that grade 13 option, versus those who graduate from the standard pubic high school program which ends at grade 12.
The only subject my sisters and I were home-schooled for was sex education. This is because like the American sex ed curriculum, the Canadian sex ed curriculum is abysmal at best. Many reasons for this, the most glaringly obvious one being the foundational bias of British Colonial roots still firmly engrained within both countries which dramatically affects our society's social awareness of sex which then enshrines our future attitudes about sex.
My parents immigrated to Canada as newly-weds of pure Scandinavian stock, one from Norway, the other from Sweden. In Scandinavian countries, sex ed begins in grade 1, not in the second year of high school as is otherwise done in North America. Sex ed for me and my two sisters ran for a full 13 years in our home, which was conducted like clockwork every evening from 8 to 9pm for those 13 years I speak of. We began with how bees pollinate flowers and we ended with genetic outcomes from interracial intercourse, all of which was taught the same kitchen table for all those years.
How was this done? My mom taught my sisters and I from her own high school-issued 'sex manual' which she kept tucked away in storage until she had a family of her own. As each of my sisters and I turned 11 while in grade 6 of private school while coincidentally starting puberty at that same age for each of us, my mom's sex manual would come out onto the kitchen table and she taught my sisters and I everything she too was taught from that same manual in Scandinavia.
Private school was great for all the reasons you've outlined and I highly recommend it to those who can afford it, but it ain't cheap. But public education ain't cheep either because what you end up with at the end of the day is poorly educated high school graduates.
K-12/13 is either paid up front in the form of private school funding and paid for by the parents, or it's paid for the rest of that child's life because of what they did NOT learn when they were otherwise enrolled in the public school system, particularly when it comes to sex education.