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Palestine - Japan, a comparison

2,403 Americans and others at Pearl Harbor were killed when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor in 1941.
The US responded with a declaration of war and by the end of the war 2,800,000 Japanese were killed.

I'm trying to imagine radicalized college students in the 1940s taking over college campuses and yelling and screaming about US murdering innocent Japanese. Demanding that colleges and universities cease any investments in US companies that produced war materials.
exexec · 61-69, C
I usually stay out of politics, but that may be the worst analogy I have ever seen. It toally ignores all the atrocities committed by the Japanese in Asia and Pacific Islands. Plus, there were decisions to try to prevent even more deaths if an invasion of Japan had occurred.
Heartlander · 80-89, M
@exexec You conveniently ignore all the other atrocities committed by Hamas and other spokes of the Iran wheel of terrorism. You likewise ignore that Israel likewise takes steps to limit civilian casualties in a world where terrorist and innocent civilians are difficult to tell one from the other. If Hamas puts their rocket launchers in a hospital, do you simply let them fire at will into Israel and not fire back?

Your protest to give a green light to Hamas's right to send rockets and missiles to kill Israel's old men, women and children and scream GENOCIDE!!! when Israel fires back?
Iwillwait · M
@Heartlander You could not be more correct in your thinking and facts.
It's a pretty bad comparison considering we were at war with a country that attacked us, whereas Israel isn't at war with another country. But yeah, America was wrong for bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki. So the "radicalized" college students would be correct.
Heartlander · 80-89, M
@samueltyler2 [quote]firebombing of Dresden?[/quote]

Yep, warfare 101. To defeat the enemy they had to defeat the enemy's will to continue to inflict harm. When dealing with a radicalized enemy and both Germany and Japan fit in that category, they have to make everyone surrender, not just the soldiers and sailors. Both Japan and Germany had instilled a fight to the death belief in their cause. Any conditions beyond an unconditional surrender would have simply been but a stalling attempt.
Heartlander · 80-89, M
@BohemianBoo There is no proportionality in a war where the other side vows to fight to the last man and is willing to use the innocent as human shields.
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We don't need proportional killing. We need peace.
samueltyler2 · 80-89, M
@Roundandroundwego unfortunately, peace only comes with someone being defeated.
Thinkerbell · 41-45, F
The more radical lefties of the 1940s were swooning over Soviet communism, and couldn't have cared less about how many Japanese or German civilians were killed.
sladejr · 56-60, M
@Thinkerbell They wanted more and more killed to open the path.

Anytime anyone says "proportional" about a war my eyes roll and I immediately tune them out. I know I am not speaking with a serious person.

Even more than I do when I hear "privilege"
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sladejr · 56-60, M
@Thinkerbell

[b]And loving it! (Maxwell Smart)[/b]
trollslayer · 46-50, M
How many of the Pearl Harbor dead were civilians?

Of couse there were no protesters because the american public was kept in the dark. Now anyone can be a reporter and post pictures.
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samueltyler2 · 80-89, M
@trollslayer there is archeological evidence. Read the entire citation.


https://biblearchaeology.org/research/chronological-categories/exodus-era/4919-top-ten-discoveries-related-to-moses-and-the-exod
trollslayer · 46-50, M
@samueltyler2 well, that is an admittedly biased source that states this is only circumstantial evidence, but most stories are based on real events. This does not prove that all israelites were slaves in Egypt. Here is another interpretation;

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/bible/meyers.html

Ps, your source uses BC instead of BCE, an indication of a source biased towards theology.
sladejr · 56-60, M
@Justice4All

[quote]And don't forget Israel has not won the war yet. Hamas is still fighting. Hezbollah is preparing in the North.[/quote]

You sound as excited as a little kid Chistmas morning 🙄
I think the difference here is that Pearl Harbor was a direct attack on the US versus an attack against a US ally. Americans unify against direct attacks, e.g. 9/11. The US relationship with Israel has always had some level of controversy. The vast majority of Americans back Israel, but it's never too difficult to find leftwing extremists at colleges willing to protest. Throw in a bunch of antifa clowns wearing keffiyehs, and you got yourself the 2024 version of George Floyd.
Bumbles · 51-55, M
Israel doesn’t actually have a bombing campaign against civilians like the allies did.

One night of allied bombing against civilians killed as many people in the seven months of the Gaza war.
Bumbles · 51-55, M
@trollslayerNot defending here, but there was a purported military reason for the Tokyo bombing because much of the military hardware for the war was fabricated in small structures that were decentralized in the city.

Precision bombing was impossible anyway, especially because of the weather in the area. The wind was perfect for the firebombing.

Firebombing was not accidental, though. It was perfected beforehand.

LeMay didn’t care, though, and he surely knew what was going happen.
trollslayer · 46-50, M
@Bumbles “purported”. I think the claim that Tokyo had dispersed factories was an excuse for what they wanted to do anyway.
Bumbles · 51-55, M
@trollslayer For some reason my response went to the top…”Could be…”
Bumbles · 51-55, M
@trollslayer Could be. It was late in the war. The Japanese were beat bad, but refused to surrender. Japanese atrocities to American GIs were well known. The war was about to change as the US was about to invade Okinawa. It seemed an invasion of mainland Japan would be necessary, and the Japanese were known to fight to the last man, and commit suicidal charges doomed to fail. Casualties were expected in the hundreds of thousands.


Would the US public even condone such a thing? The B-29s were now in range and the US had total air supremacy. Like an arrow pulled back at maximum tension.
,
I’m not condoning the bombing but there is some context that makes the question more complex. The war had to end, and it still wouldn’t for another 5 months.
samueltyler2 · 80-89, M
@Bumbles we will never really know. But one trip to Hiroshima to see the ruins and the memorials, seeing how the city was chosen for its maximum loss of life, one has to be humble when we condemn another country for doing anything similar.
Oster1 · M
I hear you, but I know you understand that the same 'play book', is being used repeatedly.
Unlearn · 41-45, M
Question is who allowed the college students to be radicalized?
Heartlander · 80-89, M
@UnlearnHmmm???? Passive-aggressive socialist?
samueltyler2 · 80-89, M
Have you looked at Ukraine recently?
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Neoerectus · M

Japanese killed ALOT of civilians as well...
samueltyler2 · 80-89, M
@Neoerectus far more civilian than military deaths. War is always hell!
Bumbles · 51-55, M
@samueltyler2 The Japanese made it worse. Absolutely horrible.

 
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