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4meAndyou · F
My understanding was that Karl Marx proposed a theoretical society. One of the first things he wanted to do was eliminate religion. John Lennon sang of it...imagine there's no heaven...imagine all the people...living for today...etc., etc.
He envisioned a world without classes or elites...without sexism, or racism, or discrimination by country of origin. But he also realized that a country can't exist without an economy, and he imagined all sorts of ways to encourage growth, such as zero interest rates for banks.
Everything in his imaginary world was free. Free education, free health care...free food and blah de blah de blah...and all of that sounds almost word for word like Bernie Sanders and AOC. Social justice, social conscience would eliminate the need for God or the moralities imposed by the hope of heaven. And apparently the only way to achieve this is through bullying and violence.
We have had the similar but not identical sorts of Utopian attempts in the United States...communes proposed by the Shakers, for example...Here's a whole list of them. But they have almost all died out.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_Utopian_communities
The reason Marxism did not work when translated to reality by Lenin and then Stalin was the same reason American Utopias never work.
People are greedy and power hungry. People are lazy. People want to eff other people's heads so that they can rise to the top like cream by standing on the bodies of other people...like Bernie Sanders, who once lived in a commune and was the laziest person there. Never shared in the chores...but still expected to be fed. He is now a millionaire, and owns a mansion AND a vacation home in Vermont...and gets testy when people ask him why he flies a private plane.
I am not writing all of this to debate you. I am writing to point out that the USSR initiated a plan to destroy the USA that is still ongoing, and the plan has been taken over by the Chicom whom you say are mainly capitalist. The plan is so far along we will have to really wake up, and do some drastic things to stop it.
https://rense.com/general32/americ.htm
The plan was real, the changes the communists imagined making have become reality, and now the children they educated in Marxist inspired educational institutions are in the Democrat part.
He envisioned a world without classes or elites...without sexism, or racism, or discrimination by country of origin. But he also realized that a country can't exist without an economy, and he imagined all sorts of ways to encourage growth, such as zero interest rates for banks.
Everything in his imaginary world was free. Free education, free health care...free food and blah de blah de blah...and all of that sounds almost word for word like Bernie Sanders and AOC. Social justice, social conscience would eliminate the need for God or the moralities imposed by the hope of heaven. And apparently the only way to achieve this is through bullying and violence.
We have had the similar but not identical sorts of Utopian attempts in the United States...communes proposed by the Shakers, for example...Here's a whole list of them. But they have almost all died out.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_Utopian_communities
The reason Marxism did not work when translated to reality by Lenin and then Stalin was the same reason American Utopias never work.
People are greedy and power hungry. People are lazy. People want to eff other people's heads so that they can rise to the top like cream by standing on the bodies of other people...like Bernie Sanders, who once lived in a commune and was the laziest person there. Never shared in the chores...but still expected to be fed. He is now a millionaire, and owns a mansion AND a vacation home in Vermont...and gets testy when people ask him why he flies a private plane.
I am not writing all of this to debate you. I am writing to point out that the USSR initiated a plan to destroy the USA that is still ongoing, and the plan has been taken over by the Chicom whom you say are mainly capitalist. The plan is so far along we will have to really wake up, and do some drastic things to stop it.
https://rense.com/general32/americ.htm
The plan was real, the changes the communists imagined making have become reality, and now the children they educated in Marxist inspired educational institutions are in the Democrat part.
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4meAndyou · F
@FootL00se Corrupt is not good...especially when it means China concealed a contagious disease in order to infect the entire world...so that their economy would not be the only one destroyed. That's the kind of insanity we want to see gone, gone, gone...and it's even worse now that their navy is harassing the Roosevelt in international waters.
curiosi · 61-69, F
It still exists, there is a member on here who's parents were members.
Lochlee · 51-55, F
@FootL00se True, the "owners" of the means of production are often legal entities and not necessarily a person. Interesting to view the incompatibility from a legal perspective. I am wondering now (and I do not know) whether in a "communist country" the legal concepts are conceptualised differently,to align with Marxist thinking.
Mamapolo2016 · F
Possibly because the ruling party in China is called the Communist Party. Possibly because these days everybody gets to define words and terms any way they like.
Mamapolo2016 · F
@FootL00se I have read some of their works.
It is, as I recall, based on the work of all benefiting all equally. All are seen as of equal value and all own everything. No social classes.
From each according to their ability to each according to their need.
It's a very pretty song. But it has never yet translated in a performance on a large scale.
It is, as I recall, based on the work of all benefiting all equally. All are seen as of equal value and all own everything. No social classes.
From each according to their ability to each according to their need.
It's a very pretty song. But it has never yet translated in a performance on a large scale.
FootL00se · 51-55, M
@Mamapolo2016 It can't. Because at its core, accepting communism means abandoning the concept of "ownership". Society would crumble today if that legal concept was done away with.
Mamapolo2016 · F
@FootL00se In practice, communism actually means a few own everything, just like capitalism does, only it's not as pronounced as in practical communism. With capitalism, more own some and few own a lot.
smiler2012 · 56-60
footloose sorry i am not at all been sceptical in your post but are china not considered a communist country with communist ideals i am asking as i genuinely have no idea what the difference between communism / marxism
FootL00se · 51-55, M
@smiler2012 Communism is a facet of Marxist ideology. If you'll read a lot of the comments you'll get a fair idea here about what Marxism in its purest form tried to preach.
It can't work out now cause society is too far gone to ever accept such an ideology. Its been dead for a long long time.
It can't work out now cause society is too far gone to ever accept such an ideology. Its been dead for a long long time.
smiler2012 · 56-60
@FootL00se thank you i am a bit clearer
clooo · 22-25, T
ezln. rojava. vietnam. nepal.
my bookshelf is full of modern and historical communist and anarchist writings, which i talk and debate about with my comrades regularly.
there has been a resurgence of both the far left and the far right now that neoliberalism has fallen. just because the right has an easier sell in these xenophobic times, that doesn't make it any less of a self-defeating ideology than it was 80 years ago. the left will win.
my bookshelf is full of modern and historical communist and anarchist writings, which i talk and debate about with my comrades regularly.
there has been a resurgence of both the far left and the far right now that neoliberalism has fallen. just because the right has an easier sell in these xenophobic times, that doesn't make it any less of a self-defeating ideology than it was 80 years ago. the left will win.
sunsporter1649 · 70-79, M
@clooo Like I said, another load of liberal bullschiff,
clooo · 22-25, T
@sunsporter1649 how insightful
sunsporter1649 · 70-79, M
@clooo LOL, as long as you are in charge of the burning and looting, eh
Ynotisay · M
Most don't even know what Socialism is. Communism is similar. Another boogey man word so smart, greedy people can manipulate dumb people.
hunkalove · 61-69, M
You are absolutely right. Communism is a great idea that never had a chance in this evil world.
sunsporter1649 · 70-79, M
If it looks like a duck, feels like a duck, and squawks like a duck, one can safely state it is a duck
Summerbreeze45 · 51-55, F
Just curious, what about Venezuela and Cuba?
FootL00se · 51-55, M
@Summerbreeze45 They're still propagating capitalism. Having a closed economy doesn't make the system "communist". Communism would entail abolishment of concepts such as "interest", and propogate shared ownership without maximising on capital.
Cuba, Venezuela are systems which are termed as "Bureaucratic Capitalism". Where the State essentially wants to gain capital for its own means, and expand.
Cuba, Venezuela are systems which are termed as "Bureaucratic Capitalism". Where the State essentially wants to gain capital for its own means, and expand.
SW-User
Yawns *