I Believe In God

@newjaninev2 We've had this part of the discussion before, though you choose to pretend we haven't. I've told you before that I can't empirically prove there is a God, but that the preponderance supports it - and in addition to that (not that addition is needed, but for you secularists).. God imprints his Truth in one's heart. That's true -even if atheists dismiss it. Secondly - that the Bible is reliable in all that it says is it's primary evidence. If you need to read about it - some of the best books are even called that "Bible as History". Be wary of those who claim to have debunked the Bible... lol... look at the evidence... closely.

@SW-User
The preponderance of what?
Not evidence, obviously, as the preponderance of zero is zero.

The preponderance of your constant vagrant statements?

The preponderance of the wishful thinking that you report as reality?

Still at least you stayed a while even if you ignored the points, I raised whenever they were too uncomfortable for you. Your achievement there was to clearly demonstrate for others the threadbare fabric of the arguments you fail to make, and fail to support.
Right there is one such. Your stated position is that if I write a book and title it The Bible as Meaningless Drivel, then the Bible becomes de facto drivel

You're in denial again. You're glorying in it too... sad.

Yes, we have. You are deliberately forgetting.

There is a lot of evidence - and the Bible is part of the evidence. You just choose to not believe (that won't work out for you, btw). Kinda like how you still believe in the theory of evolution - this deep into a time when it's largely been debunked. It doesn't exactly highlight you as a credible thinker.

Churches in general are not going out of business - some denominations are. You should pay more attention to which denominations those are. I'll give you a hint: it's those that start going away from the Gospel of Salvation and more towards feel good gospel. That's been noted even in the liberal press.

Yes, about Bill Gates and Warren Buffet. Those are single individuals - are you really counting them for the total amount? Even so - they are doing exactly what I mentioned. Trying to be good... and it is good, but unfortunately one can't be "good" enough to get into heaven, one needs to have their sins paid for. Their plow won't work.

Studies show - and I think the Pew Center was actually one of them, that christians give to charity at 4 times... the rate as atheists do (same studies show conservatives at double the rate of liberals, but it increases on the religious divide)... AND... AND... that's before counting Tithing (cause of course, liberal. Imagine that. If Tithing counted the amount would greatly exceed a 10 to 1 ratio. As for your study - it's totally false. Christian charities have been show to deliver more effectively, and a higher percentage of actual given that non-christian ones. At least in the states - I can't claim knowledge of the same outside of the US.

Just a few sources: though you can look them up yourself if you want actual evidence rather than self-serving anecdotes: Recent liberal study at Syracuse University; https://townhall.com/columnists/johnstossel/2006/12/06/who-gives-to-charity-n841567; here's an atheist website - which admits it even if they make excuses: http://mnatheists.org/news-and-media/letters-and-essays/178-10-things-christians-do-better-than-atheists-1-charity-work;
-- here's a philanthropy website: https://www.philanthropy.com/article/Religious-Americans-Give-More/153973 - not a religious source.

Facts matter. You're in denial and picking and choosing anecdotes, based on your preferred beliefs.

So good for all those organizations you mentioned. Good on them - but it still pales in comparison to the totality given by faith-based communities.

It is you who has avoided reason. I don't disappear, I have a life - as I'm sure you have. But after having to explain things to you - over and over again, and you refuse to acknowledge logic or reason (or science for that matter), even I - who actually enjoy thumping atheists (thank you for the opportunity) get bored. Besides, you deny the truth and seem to follow pseudo-scientific fads, and it appears to be a deliberate choice on your part.

Finally, yes.. belief has fallen in the western world. Not surprisingly, and related, the drop in morality has also severely effected western outcomes. But this is not the first time there have been drops - and it's bounced back. In fact, several awakenings have occurred staring almost from nothing...-- BUT... that said -- frankly - it's irrelevant. Let's say it continues to decline and not bounce back like it has in previous centuries. the Bible does say that His people will remain a remnant. Some even prefer a non-christian environment - cause now only the true believers are visible - rather than the remnant within a supposedly christian (but not) population.

So it's irrelevant. Sad if you think otherwise. Besides... as I said, atheism is on a long death spiral. You should get off that train before it finally wrecks... See you on the other side.

@SW-User
Nonsense. Why would I ever have bothered engaging with you in any sort of discussion about a pointless and overblown anecdote?



So your bible is its own evidence? How wonderfully convenient!

You just choose to not believe (that won't work out for you, btw).

No, I choose to believe those things for which there is evidence... evidence from which well-reasoned and coherent conclusions may be drawn.



Such as the Mennonites? Plain-dressing Anabaptists — who follow a faith related to the Amish? are those the ones you have in mind? The ones who just went out of business. Those ones?


The Theory of Evolution by Natural Selection doesn't require belief (neither mine nor yours). It requires carful examination of the evidence from which it is drawn (try that sometime), followed by either acceptance (or rejection) of the conclusions drawn from that evidence (see the preceding paragraph). Which is how I spend a noteworthy portion of my free time
Please supply exact details of how you have managed to falsify the Theory of Evolution by Natural Selection... global fame and a Nobel pizprize await!!! Yet another tedious vagrant claim!


So, you're the definitive authority on 'good', to the extent that you're also the definitive authority on other people's motives?

Studies show - and I think the Pew Center was actually one of them, that christians give to charity at 4 times... the rate as atheists do (same studies show conservatives at double the rate of liberals, but it increases on the religious divide)... AND... AND... that's before counting Tithing (cause of course, liberal. Imagine that. If Tithing counted the amount would greatly exceed a 10 to 1 ratio. As for your study - it's totally false. Christian charities have been show to deliver more effectively, and a higher percentage of actual given that non-christian ones. At least in the states - I can't claim knowledge of the same outside of the US.

Your contention here appears to be that Christians that some (unspecified 'studies' demonstrate that christians give to charity at 16 times the rate of unreligious liberals.
Do you seriously equate tithing with charitable giving? If so do you consider the taxes you pay to your government to be charitable donations?

Do Christians therefore pay 16 times more tax than others?
"As for your (?) study..." Which study is that? Could you specify the study to which you're referring?(especially if you're then going to arbitrarily condemn it as 'false'




What a hodgepodge of self-defeating, unsubstantiated pap! John Stossel seems to be some-or-other 3rd-rate scribbler, with the academic cachet of my neighbour's toddler.
What you appear to characterise as 'excuses' are points fatal to your claims, specifically:
The religious donate in the direction of their own religion (as I said... self-serving, self-benefiting, and used for self-promotion, and your second item confirms that 75% of religious donations are in that direction)
The author of your third offering says "I think that atheists are more concerned with helping others then getting recognition for efforts. The side effect of this unselfishness is that efforts of atheists are ignored"... and you think that this supports your position?


Yes facts do matter. Perhaps you would like to offer some?
They would be a refreshing change from all these 'vagrant' claims (no visible means of support)


As one of your referenced opinion pieces said "I think that atheists are more concerned with helping others then getting recognition for efforts. The side effect of this unselfishness is that efforts of atheists are ignored"... apparently so

Which brings me back to another of my questions and earlier points (few of which you have addressed). Why don't those same 'faith-based communities' liquidate everything they have, why don't they impoverish themselves, why don't they eschew precious metals, fancy buildings, fine cloths, and put all those sick-gotten gains where they will do some good (especially as they present themselves as authoritative on what constitutes 'good').



It is you who has avoided reason. I don't disappear, I have a life - as I'm sure you have. But after having to explain things to you - over and over again, and you refuse to acknowledge logic or reason (or science for that matter), even I - who actually enjoy thumping atheists (thank you for the opportunity) get bored. Besides, you deny the truth and seem to follow pseudo-scientific fads, and it appears to be a deliberate choice on your part.


Please point out examples of where you have applied or offered these

You might be encouraged to know that there is one place in the world where christianity is on the increase.. sub-Saharan Africa
Long recognised for its sterling and unshakeable morality

...and then the usual 'christian' sinister veiled threat (it seems to be how christians console themselves while licking their wounds)They must be taking great comfort from the suffering and demise of that atheist chap Fred Hollows
spit.
in.
its.
face.

Ha ha... Christianity is booming in China, in Iran (of all places, though in secret), and it's rebounding in the US (though it didn't drop too much. I'm expecting a revival in Europe as well. Maybe even New Zealand - after all ... even that island can't be immune to the truth.

Again... with the anecdotal evidence, that helps you avoid confronting the truth. It's sad. For you.

Even a casual reading of pop culture and media reporting shows that Christian good works, charity included, are way underreported... and even disregarded. You're playing the victim card, while atheists because a favored minority of at least the media elite, get all the attention. Every few years, a liberal college or center conducts a study (I think Univ of South Carolina last) and acts surprised that conservatives, and in particular christians give more than liberals (where the atheists are) - that it doesn't even count tithing... cause if it did, then the difference would reach orders of magnitude (like in double digits.

You asked for examples of when you failed to use reason or logic in a discussion - how about the entire argument on evolution we had, when you provided speculation that is used by evolutionists to plug holes in their theory (and didn't acknowledge), and when you made conclusions from facts (or suppositions) that just didn't follow - because, it didn't support your preferred world review. That happened. That's you.

That you have been smacked around by a Christian in argument bothers you - which is a normal human reaction. But it's because your arguments are wrong. That's the reason. Silly non-happenings such as "christians licking their wounds" - that might make you feel better... but it's nonsense.

Frankly, it's boring... cya.

@Cloud7593 Of course your mind won't change, you're just another fool who still believes fairy tales.

@Aresdotexe No need to cut me down just because I hold a different belief.

@Cloud7593 Thinking professional wrestling is entertaining is a different belief, you hold a false belief. Like thinking professional wrestling is real and not just made up.