I Believe In God
I watched the total solar eclipse today and what an amazing sight!! How could anyone look at something like that and say there is no God is beyond me.
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newjaninev2 · 56-60, F
@SW-User [quote]Yes, we have. You are deliberately forgetting.[/quote]
Nonsense. [c=#003BB2]Why would I bother engaging with you in any sort of discussion about a pointless and overblown anecdote[/c]?
[quote]There is a lot of evidence - and the Bible is part of the evidence.[/quote]
[c=#003BB2]So your bible is its own evidence? How wonderfully convenient!
You just choose to not believe (that won't work out for you, btw).
No, I choose to believe those things for which there is evidence... evidence from which well-reasoned and coherent conclusions may be drawn.[/c]
[quote]Churches in general are not going out of business - some denominations are...those that start going away from the Gospel of Salvation and more towards feel good gospel.[/quote]
[c=#003BB2]Such as the Mennonites? Plain-dressing Anabaptists — who follow a faith related to the Amish? are those the ones you have in mind? The ones who just went out of business. Those ones?[/c]
[quote]Kinda like how you still believe in the theory of evolution - this deep into a time when it's largely been debunked. It doesn't exactly highlight you as a credible thinker.[/quote]
[c=#003BB2]The Theory of Evolution by Natural Selection doesn't require belief (neither mine nor yours). It requires carful examination of the evidence from which it is drawn, followed by either acceptance (or rejection) of the conclusions drawn from that evidence (see the preceding paragraph). Which is how I spend a noteworthy portion of my free time[/c]
Yes, about Bill Gates and Warren Buffet. Those are single individuals - are you really counting them for the total amount? Even so - they are doing exactly what I mentioned. Trying to be good... and it is good, but unfortunately one can't be "good" enough to get into heaven, one needs to have their sins paid for. Their plow won't work.
Studies show - and I think the Pew Center was actually one of them, that christians give to charity at 4 times... the rate as atheists do (same studies show conservatives at double the rate of liberals, but it increases on the religious divide)... AND... AND... that's before counting Tithing (cause of course, liberal. Imagine that. If Tithing counted the amount would greatly exceed a 10 to 1 ratio. As for your study - it's totally false. Christian charities have been show to deliver more effectively, and a higher percentage of actual given that non-christian ones. At least in the states - I can't claim knowledge of the same outside of the US.
Just a few sources: though you can look them up yourself if you want actual evidence rather than self-serving anecdotes: Recent liberal study at Syracuse University; https://townhall.com/columnists/johnstossel/2006/12/06/who-gives-to-charity-n841567; here's an atheist website - which admits it even if they make excuses: http://mnatheists.org/news-and-media/letters-and-essays/178-10-things-christians-do-better-than-atheists-1-charity-work;
-- here's a philanthropy website: https://www.philanthropy.com/article/Religious-Americans-Give-More/153973 - not a religious source.
Facts matter. You're in denial and picking and choosing anecdotes, based on your preferred beliefs.
So good for all those organizations you mentioned. Good on them - but it still pales in comparison to the totality given by faith-based communities.
It is you who has avoided reason. I don't disappear, I have a life - as I'm sure you have. But after having to explain things to you - over and over again, and you refuse to acknowledge logic or reason (or science for that matter), even I - who actually enjoy thumping atheists (thank you for the opportunity) get bored. Besides, you deny the truth and seem to follow pseudo-scientific fads, and it appears to be a deliberate choice on your part.
Finally, yes.. belief has fallen in the western world. Not surprisingly, and related, the drop in morality has also severely effected western outcomes. But this is not the first time there have been drops - and it's bounced back. In fact, several awakenings have occurred staring almost from nothing...-- BUT... that said -- frankly - it's irrelevant. Let's say it continues to decline and not bounce back like it has in previous centuries. the Bible does say that His people will remain a remnant. Some even prefer a non-christian environment - cause now only the true believers are visible - rather than the remnant within a supposedly christian (but not) population.
So it's irrelevant. Sad if you think otherwise. Besides... as I said, atheism is on a long death spiral. You should get off that train before it finally wrecks... See you on the other side
Nonsense. [c=#003BB2]Why would I bother engaging with you in any sort of discussion about a pointless and overblown anecdote[/c]?
[quote]There is a lot of evidence - and the Bible is part of the evidence.[/quote]
[c=#003BB2]So your bible is its own evidence? How wonderfully convenient!
You just choose to not believe (that won't work out for you, btw).
No, I choose to believe those things for which there is evidence... evidence from which well-reasoned and coherent conclusions may be drawn.[/c]
[quote]Churches in general are not going out of business - some denominations are...those that start going away from the Gospel of Salvation and more towards feel good gospel.[/quote]
[c=#003BB2]Such as the Mennonites? Plain-dressing Anabaptists — who follow a faith related to the Amish? are those the ones you have in mind? The ones who just went out of business. Those ones?[/c]
[quote]Kinda like how you still believe in the theory of evolution - this deep into a time when it's largely been debunked. It doesn't exactly highlight you as a credible thinker.[/quote]
[c=#003BB2]The Theory of Evolution by Natural Selection doesn't require belief (neither mine nor yours). It requires carful examination of the evidence from which it is drawn, followed by either acceptance (or rejection) of the conclusions drawn from that evidence (see the preceding paragraph). Which is how I spend a noteworthy portion of my free time[/c]
Yes, about Bill Gates and Warren Buffet. Those are single individuals - are you really counting them for the total amount? Even so - they are doing exactly what I mentioned. Trying to be good... and it is good, but unfortunately one can't be "good" enough to get into heaven, one needs to have their sins paid for. Their plow won't work.
Studies show - and I think the Pew Center was actually one of them, that christians give to charity at 4 times... the rate as atheists do (same studies show conservatives at double the rate of liberals, but it increases on the religious divide)... AND... AND... that's before counting Tithing (cause of course, liberal. Imagine that. If Tithing counted the amount would greatly exceed a 10 to 1 ratio. As for your study - it's totally false. Christian charities have been show to deliver more effectively, and a higher percentage of actual given that non-christian ones. At least in the states - I can't claim knowledge of the same outside of the US.
Just a few sources: though you can look them up yourself if you want actual evidence rather than self-serving anecdotes: Recent liberal study at Syracuse University; https://townhall.com/columnists/johnstossel/2006/12/06/who-gives-to-charity-n841567; here's an atheist website - which admits it even if they make excuses: http://mnatheists.org/news-and-media/letters-and-essays/178-10-things-christians-do-better-than-atheists-1-charity-work;
-- here's a philanthropy website: https://www.philanthropy.com/article/Religious-Americans-Give-More/153973 - not a religious source.
Facts matter. You're in denial and picking and choosing anecdotes, based on your preferred beliefs.
So good for all those organizations you mentioned. Good on them - but it still pales in comparison to the totality given by faith-based communities.
It is you who has avoided reason. I don't disappear, I have a life - as I'm sure you have. But after having to explain things to you - over and over again, and you refuse to acknowledge logic or reason (or science for that matter), even I - who actually enjoy thumping atheists (thank you for the opportunity) get bored. Besides, you deny the truth and seem to follow pseudo-scientific fads, and it appears to be a deliberate choice on your part.
Finally, yes.. belief has fallen in the western world. Not surprisingly, and related, the drop in morality has also severely effected western outcomes. But this is not the first time there have been drops - and it's bounced back. In fact, several awakenings have occurred staring almost from nothing...-- BUT... that said -- frankly - it's irrelevant. Let's say it continues to decline and not bounce back like it has in previous centuries. the Bible does say that His people will remain a remnant. Some even prefer a non-christian environment - cause now only the true believers are visible - rather than the remnant within a supposedly christian (but not) population.
So it's irrelevant. Sad if you think otherwise. Besides... as I said, atheism is on a long death spiral. You should get off that train before it finally wrecks... See you on the other side
SW-User
@newjaninev2 We've had this part of the discussion before, though you choose to pretend we haven't. I've told you before that I can't empirically prove there is a God, but that the preponderance supports it - and in addition to that (not that addition is needed, but for you secularists).. God imprints his Truth in one's heart. That's true -even if atheists dismiss it. Secondly - that the Bible is reliable in all that it says is it's primary evidence. If you need to read about it - some of the best books are even called that "Bible as History". Be wary of those who claim to have debunked the Bible... lol... look at the evidence... closely.
newjaninev2 · 56-60, F
@SW-User [quote]the preponderance supports it[/quote]
The preponderance of what?
Not evidence, obviously, as the preponderance of zero is zero.
The preponderance of your constant vagrant statements?
The preponderance of the wishful thinking that you report as reality?
Still at least you stayed a while even if you ignored the points, I raised whenever they were too uncomfortable for you. Your achievement there was to clearly demonstrate for others the threadbare fabric of the arguments you fail to make, and fail to support.
Right there is one such. Your stated position is that if I write a book and title it The Bible as Meaningless Drivel, then the Bible becomes de facto drivel
The preponderance of what?
Not evidence, obviously, as the preponderance of zero is zero.
The preponderance of your constant vagrant statements?
The preponderance of the wishful thinking that you report as reality?
Still at least you stayed a while even if you ignored the points, I raised whenever they were too uncomfortable for you. Your achievement there was to clearly demonstrate for others the threadbare fabric of the arguments you fail to make, and fail to support.
Right there is one such. Your stated position is that if I write a book and title it The Bible as Meaningless Drivel, then the Bible becomes de facto drivel
SW-User
You're in denial again. You're glorying in it too... sad.