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Is It Really About the Age of the Earth?

A few months ago, a well-known apologist who believes in an old earth but had visited the Ark Encounter mentioned me and his visit to the Ark on his podcast and said that young earth creationists (like myself) should be willing to discuss the issue of the age of the earth and not refer to old earth creationists as “compromisers.” So why do I, and the Answers in Genesis ministry as a whole, continue to stand boldly on a young earth and assert that old earth teachings are indeed compromising God’s Word?

It’s because the issue isn’t really about the age of the earth at all (that’s why we do not primarily call ourselves a young-earth creation ministry). The issue we’re on about is biblical authority.

You see, ideas regarding evolution and millions of years don’t come from the text of Scripture. Just starting with God’s Word and no outside influences, you won’t find a hint of long ages or evolution! Those ideas come from outside the text, and then Genesis is reinterpreted in light of those ideas from outside Scripture. So the issue really is “Who is your authority?” Is God and his Word your authority, or is man your authority and Scripture gets reinterpreted in light of man’s ideas?

Now, many people don’t like being told they’re compromising God’s Word because of what they believe or teach. But they are! When someone accepts millions of years or evolution, they are making man—not God—the ultimate authority, and that is compromising biblical authority. And it just leads to more compromise!

I’ve had Christians tell me we should not use the word compromise when talking about those Christians who accept an old earth of millions of years. But the reason they don’t want us using that word is because they don’t want to acknowledge it is a biblical authority issue. So many want us to concede that people can have different views—but there’s only one correct view, and that is God’s view as clearly outlined in his Word.

It shouldn’t be a shock to anyone that those who compromise the Bible’s clear teaching on marriage, sexuality, gender, abortion, race, and more have already compromised Genesis in regard to the age of the earth and creation. They’ve already reinterpreted God’s clear Word, so why stop there? After all, what we as Christians believe about marriage, sexuality, gender, abortion, race, and so on are all grounded in . . . Genesis! So if Genesis is not literal history, why should we trust what it teaches about the morality that’s grounded in that history?

And if we can start outside of God’s Word with man’s word about the age of things, why not start outside of God’s Word with man’s view of sexuality and marriage, etc.? Once the door is unlocked to reinterpret God’s Word with man’s fallible word, it puts one on a slippery slide of compromise throughout Scripture.

So the reason we talk about the age of the earth isn’t because of the age of the earth itself—it’s a consequence of our stand on biblical authority!

by Ken Ham on May 3, 2024
Featured in Ken Ham Blog

Just pitting the Truth of God against the lies of men.
DocSavage · M
[quote] So the reason we talk about the age of the earth isn’t because of the age of the earth itself—it’s a consequence of our stand on biblical authority! [/quote]
Don’t forget, Ham still hasn’t explained light years either. All god has is an old book. We have Hubble.
@sree251 says [quote] 6000 years is old enough for purpose of spiritual discussion. [/quote] Speak for yourself. Stop trying to fit everyone else into your narrowminded compartments.

[quote] beliefs (i.e. so-called accepted facts)[/quote]
there are a LOT more ways for the mind to address information than just belief and unbelief. Your attempts to cast all thinking into those two narrow containers is another of your preconceptions; perhaps your most limiting one.

[quote] There is now talk of war, the kind of which we have never seen before.[/quote] That talk is at least as old as the Book of Revelations, [b]LOL!!![/b]
sree251 · 41-45, M
@ElwoodBlues [quote] Speak for yourself. Stop trying to fit everyone else into your narrowminded compartments. [/quote]

My narrow-minded compartments? The entirety of human knowledge and thought are in narrow-minded compartments. We pigeonhole everything. Just take a look at the forum topics (e.g. people & family, power & politics, etc.) and sub-topics (e.g. physics, chemistry, biology, etc.)

Which pigeon-hole do you fit in? Do you know that I could feed all your posts into a computer program and have AI construct "ElwoodBlues" the way IBM created "Deep Blue"? Your AI counterpart could log on to chat with folks here and no one would be able to tell the difference. AI can never copy my mental pattern.

[quote] there are a LOT more ways for the mind to address information than just belief and unbelief. Your attempts to cast all thinking into those two narrow containers is another of your preconceptions; perhaps your most limiting one. [/quote]

There are no "unbeliefs". Everything is a matter of belief be it science or spirituality. This is because that is the way the mind works. The mind stores beliefs in the form of knowledge in various compartments. When I ask you a question, it triggers an "ElwoodBlues" response pattern that spits out an answer drawn from your various knowledge compartments.

[quote] That talk is at least as old as the Book of Revelations, LOL!!! [/quote]

Seems like you can't process the gravity of my statement.
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ArishMell · 70-79, M
What drives Ham?

Why do his type try so desperately to run campaigns to push their own narrow opinions onto everyone, despite most Christians and probably many Jews and Muslims knowing the six-day fable is purely allegorical?

To call anyone who does not believe him, a liar?

Does he [i]sincerely [/i]believe in Biblical literalism (a stance that unwittingly but implicitly insults not only the ancient Hebrew authors' intelligence but also their God)?

Or is he playing a shabby, childish little power-game, wanting to manipulate people in the only way he knows?

I wonder what people like Ken Ham are like in the real world, how they behave towards work colleagues, friends (if they have any) and family (if they have not driven those away)?
ArishMell · 70-79, M
@JimboSaturn I suppose so if you believe God created everything - including the Laws of Science that allow us to study His Creation, and the human brain to be curious about it, and endeavour to learn it.

Pity that Han has not learnt much of it!
GodSpeed63 · 61-69, M
@ArishMell [quote]You are not religious? Really?[/quote]

Does one need religion in order to have a close relationship with God?
ArishMell · 70-79, M
@GodSpeed63 I suppose it depends how you define "religion".

If by the teachings of a formal institution such as any of Christianity's many denominations, or an Islamic theocracy, I would say no, you don't. (Just don't tell the latter's rulers...) You can believe in God, or a god, without organised trappings though most religious people do want those, not least for the shared community and continuity values.

On the other hand you can define "religion" generally, without preceding the noun with an article, as simply a set of beliefs in a deity or deities, leaving open how you describe and express them.

There are quite a number of significant sets of spiritual beliefs extant, some with various denominations or sects of their own, plus more known but extinct (and probably plenty long lost in the depths of human history), and most have common aims despite considerable theological differences and indeed deities.

So really, [i]religion [/i]is and always has been the way humans seek some form of spiritual dimension to life and death; and individual [i]faiths[/i] and their sects are just particular paths to that.
[sep][sep][center]CLOCKS[/center][sep][sep]

Visit any limestone cave. Stalactites grow at a rate of about 1mm per 10 years. So a 10 meter stalactite has been growing about 100,000 years. And close examination of cross sections shows the year by year layering (where rainfall is seasonal). These stalactites can be found all over the world. The ages are corroborated by radiometric carbon dating.


Tree rings are clocks. The oldest living tree goes back about 4800 years. But wood from dead trees can contain records of volcanic events, thus extending the record back much farther.
[quote] Originally developed for climate science, the method is now an invaluable tool for archaeologists, who can track up to 13,000 years of history using tree ring chronologies for over 4,000 sites on six continents.[/quote]The ages are corroborated by radiometric carbon dating (establishing age by measuring ratios of radioactive vs stable isotopes).

Seasonal snowfall on glaciers accumulates to form countable layers. Greenland ice sheet layers can be counted back about 110,000 years. The ages are corroborated by radiometric dating. Other glaciers go back as far as 700,000 years, but on those the older data is mostly radiometric dating.

Salt flows from rocks into lakes and the ocean. If no salt left the ocean, that would give an age of 50 million to 70 million years. However, various geologic processes cause salt to leave the ocean at about the rate it's entering, so 50 million to 70 million years becomes a minimum estimate of the age of the earth.

Layering of sedimentary rocks - such as in the Grand Canyon - forms a series of clocks. These layers correspond to different stages in the evolution of life on the planet. The layers can be dated by positional order (bottom layer formed first), sedimentation rate, age of fossils found in the layer, and of course, radiometric dating. There are five main isotope pairs used for dating sedimentary rocks as well as the 'fissile track' method; you can read about it all here:
https://australian.museum/learn/minerals/shaping-earth/radioactive-dating/


Then there's all the fossils of extinct animals found in the rock layers. They're not exactly a clock, but they are an indicator of the vast amounts of time over which evolution occurs.

Of course outer space offers many clocks. Accumulation of craters on airless bodies like the Moon forms a clock. Shells of glowing gas left over from novas and supernovas form clocks (the Lambda Orionis Ring is about 1 million years old). The redshift of light from galaxies billions of light years away form clocks. The Hubble expansion of the universe forms a clock. The frequency shift of big bang radiation to form the cosmic microwave background is a clock.

No one clock is perfect, but they all corroborate each other pretty well, and they ALL give life FAR MORE than 6000 years to evolve.

If you argue "God hid those dinosaur bones (and all the isotopes used for dating) in the rocks" I can't disprove it. If you argue "God built all those layers into the glaciers and into stalactites, made the nova remnants appear millions of years old, etc." I can't disprove it. But you've got to ask yourself, why would God put all these inter-corroborating clocks all over the Earth and all thru the galaxy if they were all false???
GodSpeed63 · 61-69, M
@ElwoodBlues [quote]The sun didn't stop.[/quote]

How do you know? Were you there when it happened?
@GodSpeed63 You continue to divert and distract in an effort to duck the "four corners of the earth" question. You keep ducking, but I'm gonna keep asking it.

Are you really gonna argue that the Earth has four corners? Or will you continue to duck the question??
DocSavage · M
@GodSpeed63
Were you ?
Natural law and physics are constant. It would take a Hell of a lot of effort to stop the sun in the sky, without disrupting the rest of the conditions.
Such an event would leave physical evidence. Do you have any showing that the event happened or do you just have an old book of fairytales?
SDavis · 56-60, F
An old Earth believer is not compromising the word of God.

And an old Earth believer can say the same thing about young Earth believers. Those who first translated the scripture and pass down that teachings which was accepted and still accepted from generation to generations for centuries got it wrong.

Genesis 1:14-17 when God placed the Moon and the Sun in it's places is when he initiated the 24-hour day. Then he said let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night. **And let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and for years.**

MEN translated the writings into English the way they thought this, that, or the other meant. And these newer Bibles don't have the index that the Bible's had prior to 1968 which told us the Bible had been translated over 41 different times to come up with the King James version that was accepted. WHAT WE ARE BEING TAUGHT IS WHAT THEY THOUGHT IT MEANT.

Though these links will not go through on this site the Strong's concordance tells us the definition of the Hebrew word pronounced Yome means: it can mean year / it can mean a span or space of time / it can mean a division or period of time. It does not necessarily mean a 24 literal hour day.
https://godrules.net/library/kjvstrongs/kjvstrongsgen1.htm

https://godrules.net/library/strongs2a/heb3117.htm

Peter said a day to the Lord is as a thousand years and A thousand years is as a day - can you honestly say the type of day the writer of Genesis meant God speaking of. You can only speak of what you have been taught it to mean.

Peter also said and 2nd Peter 3:5 that it is deliberately ignored that **the heavens are of old** and the Earth existed out of water and through water by the Word of God. And science has discovered that the Earth was once a water world a few billion years ago. There was no land visible. And the Bible says God separated the water and he called the dry land to appear.

It's been 6,000 years since Adam sinned - that is when records of the deeds of mankind started (death was brought into the world and fell upon all mankind by one man, Adam.)

But to each their on belief about the age of the Earth and probably a few other things churches disagree with................................ The main thing is belief in our Lord, which makes it not really about the age of the Earth.
SDavis · 56-60, F
@GodSpeed63 I chose not to give you a direct answer godspeed 63.

Do you ask those who have different beliefs than yours in the interpretations or translations of various scriptures from the Methodist, the Catholic, the Protestant, the Baptist, the Characterismatic, the Unitarian, the Lutheran, the orthodox, the angelica's, and all the other different denominations and sub denominations in the churches of today - whether they are born again? What does it benefit you - nil.

Scripture says not to argue over words. Which is A debate, a continual backwards and forwards of words, it accomplishes nothing - 2nd Timothy 2:14 ......

Telling someone their belief concerning translation / interpretation of scripture is incorrect and attempting to correct them then ask them if they are born again is an insult. That is saying that if you're not a born again Christian you believe like I do well you are dead wrong.

That is the reason why there are so many different denominations in the church which should all be on one accord.
GodSpeed63 · 61-69, M
@SDavis [quote]I chose not to give you a direct answer godspeed 63.[/quote]

Why?

[quote]Do you ask those who have different beliefs than yours in the interpretations or translations of various scriptures from the Methodist, the Catholic, the Protestant, the Baptist, the Characterismatic, the Unitarian, the Lutheran, the orthodox, the angelica's, and all the other different denominations and sub denominations in the churches of today - whether they are born again? What does it benefit you - nil.[/quote]

Belief follows truth and not the other way around. Jesus told us that we must be born again in order to see the kingdom of God, we must born of water and of the Spirit in order to enter therein. There's only one interpretation of God's Word and that belongs to Him and to whom He wishes to share it with. People have a right to believe what they wish but are responsible to believe in the truth of God rather than the lie of Satan.
SDavis · 56-60, F
@GodSpeed63 I've already told you why and if you didn't understand it that's your b i z.


you're indirectly saying that if a person believes other than you do they are believing in the LIE of Satan well I put that same theory back at you.

One on one you can attack me with your personal beliefs and accuse me of believing a lie that's your business. Now prove to me that God hasn't directed my beliefs to the truth concerning the age of the Earth / the misinterpretations of the meaning of ancient Hebrew words. That you are the one believing a lie / a lie, the LIE of Satan passed down from generation to generation. As it is written in Daniel's 12 and the last days knowledge shall increase and knowledge is a gift from God.

Conversation has ended on my part goodbye
Carazaa · F
Either we believe the Bible or we don't. Either we trust in God or we don't. It is frightening how many don't trust Gods word.

[b][c=003BB2]2 Timothy 3:16

16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,[/c][/b]
Carazaa · F
@JimboSaturn
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_Nobel_laureates
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Carazaa · F
@JimboSaturn No they were over 65% from Christian families. God will bless our children for a thousand generations he says if we love Jesus, yep! Now you know
Biblical authority is right! Arguing against God is not so smart. God has the final say so and people need to concentrate more on salvation than the age of the Earth! That sure won't get anyone to heaven.
DocSavage · M
[quote] So if Genesis is not literal history, why should we trust what it teaches about the morality that’s grounded in that history?
[/quote]
Simple answer : we shouldn’t.
ArishMell · 70-79, M
@DocSavage That is two different questions.

The Creation myth is purely allegorical, about Nature not human relationships.

The moral matters are purely about human relationships and behaviour.
DocSavage · M
@ArishMell
The issue of morality has nothing to do with the true age of the earth. He’s just using it as an excuse to try and validate the Old Testament.
Ham takes the bible literally, despite all the evidence against it. Godspeed63 is a mindless drone , void of original thought. You won’t see any feedback from him.
DocSavage · M
@JimboSaturn
Standard creationist excuse is to bring up test in which carbon dating didn’t work. They’re used to calibrate the system. But you’re not supposed to know that.
newjaninev2 · 56-60, F
1. You're violating copyright and this site's ToS.

2. Don't you have any original thoughts of your own?

3. Oh, wait! From what we've seen, don't bother answering (2)
AndysAttic · 56-60, M
@ArishMell @ElwoodBlues and @JimboSaturn with all their book learning words and pictures. I follow creation science, if the Earth was older than 6000 years we would have used up all the water and the air.

PS. Professor Ham is right, a so called 'light year' is just a year that is not as heavy as other ones which also disprove gravity (which is just a theory) and the nonsense 'globe Earth'.
AndysAttic · 56-60, M
@LadyGrace Space is a hoax Ma'am, all invented by NASA in 1878 to fool people into believing in dinosaurs.
DocSavage · M
@ArishMell
[quote] Ham's ignorance of what is a light-year [/quote]
I think it should be noted, that Ham is not as ignorant as he appears to be. While of course nothing he says can be taken at face value, he has run a successful business for years ( thanks to the gullible) and while it didn’t work out, his ploy to cheat Kentucky out of the tax money was on the slick side.
To be that successful, you have to know enough of the real facts to make a convincing argument. Ham knows enough of the science , but he’ll never admit to it. Not when he can milk it for all it’s worth.
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sree251 · 41-45, M
@JimboSaturn [quote] Not at all, I believe in freedom of religion but when challenged I will assert the truth. [/quote]

The OP was not issuing any challenge to you non-Christians when making his post in this forum on Spirituality. He was seeking a conversation with fellow Christians whose religious beliefs are getting muddled by beliefs of science.

[quote] I've ask that question many times here with no answers from these people. No one can explain how the universe can be 6,000 years old when I can see for myself galaxies 15 million light years away. [/quote]

These people here? Where is here, and who are these people? The question you asked amounts to pitting your belief in galaxies 15 million light years away against beliefs derived from the Christian Bible. I am taking you on not to defend Christian beliefs but to question your beliefs in science. Stick to your material world and leave Christians be in their spiritual world.
JimboSaturn · 51-55, M
@sree251 Sidestepping answers again. No real answers to any questions.
sree251 · 41-45, M
@JimboSaturn [quote] Sidestepping answers again. No real answers to any questions. [/quote]

You guys need to stay in the science forum and talk physics to your own kind. I am the police confronting bad actors messing up public space.
JimboSaturn · 51-55, M
@sree251 nonsense
@GodSpeed63 Just like you to sloppily and childishly modified the comic so it doesn’t make sense.

Add on: Does your god appreciate lies and deceptions? Because you do both, but not very well.
GodSpeed63 · 61-69, M
@BlueSkyKing [quote]Just like you to sloppily and childishly modified the comic so it doesn’t make sense.[/quote]

It makes perfect sense. It's the Truth of God. God's Word never changes even though the wording may different.

[quote]Add on: Does your god appreciate lies and deceptions?[/quote]

From people like yourself, no. Ridiculing me will not change the fact that you believe in the lies of men rather than the Truth of God.
DocSavage · M
@GodSpeed63
The lies of man work. Science , biology, evolution, germ theory, atomic theory.
Gravity, astronomy, anthropology, physics , geography, all work, and they do it without god’s word. [b]And[/b] all of them have testable evidence, make predictions, and produce results
When was the last time god published anything new and useful?
I think you'll find a lot of old earth creationists don't just bristle at being called compromisers but also the presumption of how little regard they have for biblical authority
[media=https://youtu.be/vpZWfZ-HCg0]
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