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CopperCicada · M
You are presuming a symmetry here. All living beings are equivalent in their lives having worth. There is nothing scientific that asserts a basis for that symmetry. Flea, pig. Human, toad. Jellyfish, worm. All equal worth.
That can only come from some value system you are projecting.
It is a valid position for Jains and Buddhists and other practitioners of ahimsa. In the Buddhist context, all sentient beings have Buddha nature, and thus identical potential.
Even there, there is a broken symmetry, as not all beings have equal odds for actualizing that potential.
Which is what I think physics shows. The non equilibrium thermodynamics that lead to life, also lead to incredible complexity and diversity which includes higher animals with capacity for language, kinships, abstraction, the use of tools, etc. I would have a hard time with a false equivalence between all living beings as this would weigh killing 100 worms when I deworm my dog with killing 100 chimpanzees, whales, dolphins, elephants, etc.
So I am good with a model where all living beings have equal value re being protected and valued as part of an ecosystem. Not one that elevates killing a yeast cell with killing a 10 year old girl.
That can only come from some value system you are projecting.
It is a valid position for Jains and Buddhists and other practitioners of ahimsa. In the Buddhist context, all sentient beings have Buddha nature, and thus identical potential.
Even there, there is a broken symmetry, as not all beings have equal odds for actualizing that potential.
Which is what I think physics shows. The non equilibrium thermodynamics that lead to life, also lead to incredible complexity and diversity which includes higher animals with capacity for language, kinships, abstraction, the use of tools, etc. I would have a hard time with a false equivalence between all living beings as this would weigh killing 100 worms when I deworm my dog with killing 100 chimpanzees, whales, dolphins, elephants, etc.
So I am good with a model where all living beings have equal value re being protected and valued as part of an ecosystem. Not one that elevates killing a yeast cell with killing a 10 year old girl.
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@CopperCicada
Don't get it twisted: I'm not arguing that i think we ought to value a yeast cell as much as we value a little girl. I'm only pointing out that the reason we make that value judgement is not based on some intrinsic value of human life but rather our homo-centric bias.
Don't get it twisted: I'm not arguing that i think we ought to value a yeast cell as much as we value a little girl. I'm only pointing out that the reason we make that value judgement is not based on some intrinsic value of human life but rather our homo-centric bias.
CopperCicada · M
@Pikachu Of course. Even saying life has worth comes from our values.
reflectingmonkey · 51-55, M
values are personal priorities, there's nothing absolute about them. we choose to value or not value something and by this action we decide what is important or less important. so if we decide to value life than we should treat life with respect. we are full of contradiction, we understand suffering and can feel compassion for all things and then force animals to live in captivity in sometimes horible conditions just so we can kill them and eat them when we see fit. as we become more aware our behavior should reflect that if we choose to value integrity.
reflectingmonkey · 51-55, M
@Pikachu thank you.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@Pikachu It does. We go about our day-to-day lives with the tacit assumption that we are superior to at least some forms of other life. If all lives were of equal value, we would be gently seeing the floor in from of us constantly to save the lives of tiny spiders. We don't do that but we would if we considered all life as intrinsically of the same value.
The choices we make (and the assumptions that we live by) are based on a hierarchy of the relative value of animal life. It's inevitable. Now I do support animal rights and I am against cruelty to animals. However, these animal rights only concern themselves with rodents upwards. That is before we get to other issues; like people care a lot more about cute animals than animals that are ugly. Do you wanna sponsor a hyena or save a baby panda?
So the idea that our lives are intrinsically the same as animals is a non-starter. We value some animals more than others.
Also, are you in favour of equalisation in prison sentences for cats and humans?
The choices we make (and the assumptions that we live by) are based on a hierarchy of the relative value of animal life. It's inevitable. Now I do support animal rights and I am against cruelty to animals. However, these animal rights only concern themselves with rodents upwards. That is before we get to other issues; like people care a lot more about cute animals than animals that are ugly. Do you wanna sponsor a hyena or save a baby panda?
So the idea that our lives are intrinsically the same as animals is a non-starter. We value some animals more than others.
Also, are you in favour of equalisation in prison sentences for cats and humans?
@Burnley123
Agreed. But that's not a defeater of my position. That i cannot practically live life treating all life as equal does not impact the argument that human life is not objectively more valuable than any other animal's life.
Nope. It's the entire point of the thread: Discuss whether human life is somehow objectively more valuable than any other animal's life.
This isn't a sustainable position and it's not the way you live your life.
Agreed. But that's not a defeater of my position. That i cannot practically live life treating all life as equal does not impact the argument that human life is not objectively more valuable than any other animal's life.
This is semantics
Nope. It's the entire point of the thread: Discuss whether human life is somehow objectively more valuable than any other animal's life.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@Pikachu As I've said, my position is that value is a concept that is inevitability somewhat subjective. Value is an individual or collective evaluation on the worth of something, by definition.
This debate is really uninspiring and I'm done.
This debate is really uninspiring and I'm done.
@Burnley123
lol value is unavoidably subjective.
Gotta say, i'm a bit disappointed in you, Burnley. No need to get shitty about it.
If you don't find yourself interested in the debate then you can excuse yourself without having to devalue it.
Oh well.
value is a concept that is inevitability somewhat subjective
lol value is unavoidably subjective.
This debate is really uninspiring and I'm done.
Gotta say, i'm a bit disappointed in you, Burnley. No need to get shitty about it.
If you don't find yourself interested in the debate then you can excuse yourself without having to devalue it.
Oh well.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
It's complicated init? Like sentience matters. Also, I'm an omnivore and consume meat. I have respect for veganism but I don't think it unnatural for humans to kill and consume animals.
Being deliberately cruel to animals, just because? That is where I draw the line.
Being deliberately cruel to animals, just because? That is where I draw the line.
LordShadowfire · 46-50, M
@Burnley123 I would tend to disagree. Ravens are sentient.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@LordShadowfire Corvus has more brains than the other guy.
LordShadowfire · 46-50, M
@Burnley123 True, but I mean regular old Earth ravens. Smarter than a 4-year-old.
SW-User
If that be the case you should hand yourself over for each and every case of insect murder you've commited since you were a kid.
@SW-User
I think you're mistaking the idea that a human life is not objectively more valuable than any other life with the idea that i consider every life to be as valuable as a human life.
I think you're mistaking the idea that a human life is not objectively more valuable than any other life with the idea that i consider every life to be as valuable as a human life.
SW-User
@Pikachu Seems like a contradictory statement... What do you consider then?
I think you're mistaking the idea that a human life is not objectively more valuable than any other life with the idea that i consider every life to be as valuable as a human life.
@SW-User
Not really.
I think that a human life is not inherently more valuable than the life of a spider.
But i do place more subjective value on a human life.
Not really.
I think that a human life is not inherently more valuable than the life of a spider.
But i do place more subjective value on a human life.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
We step on insects every day.
Jessmari · 41-45
I would say no at base value with no variable thrown in. A life is a life. With a variable thrown in then both me and the creature have our responsibilities whether they be moral or instinctual.
GodSpeed63 · 61-69, M
According to God's Word, I'm more valuable than any animal. For, according to His Word, I'm not an animal.
reflectingmonkey · 51-55, M
@Pikachu according to god ... 🤭
GodSpeed63 · 61-69, M
@Pikachu @reflectingmonkey
We've had this conversation before, Pikachu, you know where I stand.
Do you believe in and worship a supernatural entity known as Yahweh?
We've had this conversation before, Pikachu, you know where I stand.
@GodSpeed63
Yes i do. And i know that you meet every definition for following a religion, you just don't want to call it that.
Yes i do. And i know that you meet every definition for following a religion, you just don't want to call it that.
SW-User
No
Your illustrations speak aloud about your post's subject.
You put Efforts in your finds!
Sustain! Blessings.
You put Efforts in your finds!
Sustain! Blessings.
You sound like an incredible empath 😊
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PoeticPlay · 51-55, M
I would hope that it does.
To you. 🤨
To you. 🤨