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Getting Jesus to come again with black magic. Seriously.
val70 · 51-55
@Roundandroundwego It's the failing of the attractional church model :)

I'd have thought you'd be delighted that someone in the Church is trying to get a new generation of church goers to go through the door. What's the alternative? Doing the same as they've always done, alienating would-be worshippers? Being a staid, po-faced institution has already seen the decline of the number of churches; why do you think they are closing? Where I work, I see two former churches. One is now a charity shop, the other a buddist temple. Why have they closed as churches? Because lesser numbers want to get bored half to death listening to an old codger droning on.
val70 · 51-55
@jackieash Nope, that's not the idea. The attractional church model is struggling because culture has shifted, making its consumer-focused, entertainment-driven approach less effective as people seek authenticity and deeper spiritual connection, not just a reflection of secular culture or flashy events. Key reasons include a spiritually open but skeptical audience (especially younger generations), the move of church exploration online, the unsustainability and cost of constant programming, and a failure to equip members for mission, leading to members outgrowing the model and non-believers finding it inauthentic or unfulfilling
@val70 The point is that the "traditional" way of attracting and retaining generations of church members is no longer attractive and that is why church membership is continuing to drop. And the reason? The message is not getting across. Social media is just a way of opening the door to new generation of would be members and new ideas, which it needs to survive. It might not be the "traditional" way, but new traditions can take shape.
val70 · 51-55
@jackieash Well, that's again saying the same thing. I mentioned what my position is and gave you the most recent information from within the bunker. The attractional church model as shown in the orginal picture is no good, actually bad because it wastes energy and money
Persephonee · 26-30, F
God entered human history, language, and culture in order to be heard.

So personally I have no problem whatsoever with evangelisation through TikTok (or Similar Worlds for that matter ;) ).

Christ went to where people were to speak to them rather expecting people to come to come (though obviously, famously, he did get followed about too), and it's ludicrous to think we shouldn't do the same. And it's probably far more effective than shouting on a street corner.

But what I fear this tends to do is make the faith shallower. TikTok et al are about brevity (and even this message is probably too long for most people already). Faith shouldn't be about compelling takes but a coherent way of life; prayer isn't just a feeling but a discipline.

And I think what also can get lost is the idea of received faith. I'm Catholic so naturally I'm going to bring up the word 'tradition', but all faith is something handed on, whether through parents or friends, rather than something curated for engagement metrics. There is weight in Christianity that isn't possibly apparent in a 30 second video.

Plus (again, traditional leaning Catholic here), what I really dislike about this, whether SM posts or something in church itself, is cutting out silence. God is beyond complete explanation and sometimes mystery requires silence to contemplate it. It doesn't mean never speak, but does probably mean no one is really going to find prayer through TikTok.

Christianity from age to age teaches that faith isn't just an arresting image but something that is formed. It takes work. TikTok (or doing something to get a newspaper headline like graffiti-style 'art' in a cathedral') is at best a threshold and not the end point. The spark that sets the work in process certainly can come from social media. It's pretty shallow if it ends there.
val70 · 51-55
@Persephonee Hello there. I was speaking against the attractional church model that's already failing all over the place. Catholic Anglican myself. Although I don't believe that baby Jesus was there to be sacrifized, I do believe that the entry point for a Christian isn't Christmas but Christ's Paschal Mystery
Persephonee · 26-30, F
@val70 That's kind of what I was meaning too - by all means attract, it's the twin of mission really, but if it's all you've got then it's not going to be effective long-term. Otherwise you're just telling people everything's great and don't change a thing. (Like I say, Christianity isn't meant to be easy, it's meant to be rewarding, here and later).
Adstar · 56-60, M
I am a Bible believing Christian.. Not a church based Christian.. So different churches have their own eccentricities and weird teachings and doings.. That's their responsibility, what they teach and what they do.. I am responsible for what i share about the LORD and what i do in regards to His will..
Adstar · 56-60, M
@BritishFailedAesthetic No i have not found a Bible believing Church..
Adstar · 56-60, M
@sree251
You mean to say you trust only in God and what He has to say TO YOU directly, don't you? Jesus was a preacher also, an intermediary between you and God.

Jesus and The Father and the Holy Spirit are One... Jesus is God manifested in the flesh.. Jesus was not a preacher.. Jesus did deliver the Message of God, it was His message because He was and is One with the Everlasting Father..
@Adstar You will if you search. Attending church does not make us "super Christians" it actually shows our human weakness as it shows our need for encouragement. You are not more sanctified than the Apostle Paul are you? He needed encouragement too.

Additionally fellowship with other believers is essential in our walk and assumed in the NT.
SunshineGirl · 36-40, F
If she is more competent in child safeguarding, community relations and basic governsnce than the average CofE incumbent, she should be welcomed as a positive step in the right direction of reform and restitution for historical abuses.

The dog can stay outside though 🐶
sree251 · 41-45, M
@SunshineGirl
The dog can stay outside though 🐶

What dog is that, Sunshine?
SunshineGirl · 36-40, F
@sree251 The dog on her lap.
sree251 · 41-45, M
@SunshineGirl
The dog on her lap.

Ok, thanks. I did not notice the dog. I though you were speaking in metaphor.
FreddieUK · 70-79, M
The Telegraph is well known for disliking any cultural change that came about after the end of conscription and even before that was reeling from the death of servants knowing their place. It's good to know it has something else to upset people who don't set foot in church between Christmases and give them an opinion at the sherry parties or the Lodge.
ArishMell · 70-79, M
@FreddieUK It reminds me a bit of the 1960s, when I were but a lad in my teens.

All those Disgusteds of Tunbridge Wells, and the likes of Malcom Muggeridge* on Any Questions, pontificating about the world ending thanks to all these long-haired layabouts and their dreadful "Beat Music". I don't recall them criticising girls for wearing these 'ere new-fangled miniskirts though.

Years later I realised some of those embittered old men were probably jealous, really, as well as unable to cope with change anyway.

They'd come from years marked generally by dull uniformity, limited choices, poor health, polluted air, bad teachers, bad working pay and conditions, men dying only a year or so after retiring; then of course a World War in which many had served, seen and done truly dreadful things; and the Austerity Years.

Now all of a sudden they saw teenagers enjoying life in their own ways!

Obviously those getting all hot-and-bothered here about a priest having long hair and loosened dog-collar had nothing like that horrible background (at least I hope they didn't); but still hint at disliking change and youth.


Of course, the real reason for their dislike might be that the priest in question is a woman.

A few years ago one female SW user was right ratty with me, simply because I'd admitted having attended the ordination to deacon of a long-time friend who happens to be a woman. As if I run the Church of England.

.......

*Malcom Muggeridge. 1903 -1990. Journalist, author, satirist. Initially holding Communist sympathies he reported from Moscow, but later succeeded in revealing the USSR -forced famine in Ukraine. Became a Roman Catholic, at least rather nominally; and came to dislike intensely "pot and pills" (cannabis and the contraceptive pill, as if some sort of link).
FreddieUK · 70-79, M
@ArishMell I remember Malcolm Muggeridge well. He used to appear on television a lot, as you say and comment on modern culture as it was then. The irony was that he boasted about not having a television set but still felt able to comment on what was the main cultural expression of its time. One of his expressions was, "I've had my aerials removed." Very droll.

I think the older generation complaining about the younger generation has been a thing since Socrates. It's also true the other way around. The younger generation knows that they know far more than the older generation who were very stupid to do what they did. Then one day, quite unexpectedly and by surprise, they find they ARE the older generation and people are saying the same thing about them. That's my experience anyway.
ArishMell · 70-79, M
@FreddieUK Very true. All these old 'uns getting in our way!

I think indeed Socrates did write about how bad are the youth of today.
JimboSaturn · 56-60, M
I heard the same thing is happening in Canada. I'm not a fan of religion so this disturbs me. However, Gen z has the attention span of fruit flies, so it will be a passing fancy.
ArishMell · 70-79, M
What exactly do you disagree with? Young people going to church, even being ordained?
ArishMell · 70-79, M
@sree251 There's honesty! I couldn't either, because being a priest is far more than simply preaching sermons and announcing the next hymn numbers. The hardest part must be the pastoral work and that demands more than just religious knowledge.
sree251 · 41-45, M
@ArishMell
The hardest part must be the pastoral work and that demands more than just religious knowledge.

Quite right. When faced with sorrow, such as death in a family, you - as the vicar of Christ - stand between the bereaved and that silence, an emptiness that dares you to act in its stead. I couldn't lie.
ArishMell · 70-79, M
@sree251 Nor I. It is hard enough when a close friend loses someone.
FrugalNoodle · 46-50, M
That oughta boost attendance!!
FrugalNoodle · 46-50, M
@sree251 It's very likely that "churches" even without such an image tied to them have plenty of evil already in them.
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CloudAngel80 · 41-45, F
@FrugalNoodle TOTALY agree with you!!! On this part of subject matter, ALL churches have the evil born in them. WE are the church. The buildibgs decay, tge doctrines get twisted and God gets left out so yes the devil is already in " churches"
I do not see a Biblically qualified minister there.
@val70 I am not into mysticism and they were not pastors.

I am so glad I go to a Bible believing Reformed Baptist church.

Somehow you forget that God is actually whispering more too

In the words of 'Real Talk with Jordan Riley' that's a huge 'said no verse ever!'
val70 · 51-55
@BritishFailedAesthetic I'm catholic Anglican and God's whisper is actually a given since early last century with amongst other publications The Body of Christ (1928) by Michael Ramsey. He was an archbishop that told in 70s that there was no Biblical objection to have female priests. But I read R.C. Sproul also btw
@val70 I can already see he was in the Ecumenical movement- huge red flag and exactly the type that would go against God's word by ordaining Biblically unqualified people as priests, etc.

Reformed Anglican myself- it's not about the Archibishop of Canterbury, etc but God's word. I'd probably be a non conformist Anglican (out of communion with Canterbury) now as there have never been any good Archibishops recently and the next one thinks SHE can violate God's word because she is a Dame.
zonavar68 · 56-60, M
Religious collars are becoming like septum rings - red flags of people you should not trust at any cost.
val70 · 51-55
@zonavar68 LOL... good one. Plenty of my friends will find that funny

 
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